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Work in progress: Ships being changed to PBR - wait with bug reports!

First post
CCP Habakuk
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-11-15 10:56:11 UTC

Our graphics team is busy re-publishing all ships to use PBR (physically based rendering). In the current build many are already done - but many are still missing (for example all Minmatar) and others will need tweaking.

Do not send any bug reports yet about missing ships and other related issues (like wrong colors). Feel free to share your first impressions in this thread, but the graphics team is NOT looking for feedback yet (but I can understand if you are being excited about the new looks - our internal QA chat was very busy yesterday while we explored some of the new looks). They will post their own thread as soon as they are ready. I will close this thread then.

Known issues:
* Minmatar ships and a few other ships are missing
* Icons in the ISIS are missing

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Exploration Frontier inc
#2 - 2014-11-15 11:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
First impressions:

Kaalakiota ships looks covered with rust (example). Just like caldari navy ships.

Overall there is a loss of details on the ships, just like if they were lower resolution (example)

Scorpion is grey, not dark grey anymore, which is rather sad. (illustration).

So yeah, my focus is mainly on caldari ships, because gallente and amarr one are rather nice already... But caldari ships are not really convincing. They look made out of plastic, just like mordu's legion ones, pre PBR or post PBR. (Which looks nicer post PBR)

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#3 - 2014-11-15 12:14:25 UTC
poor caldari .. just as they are getting nice looking models .. you do this too them What?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#4 - 2014-11-15 13:24:26 UTC
While the enhanced contrast and obviously improved lighting are nice, the reflections are so massive they're not. in some cases.

If you look at the current rather matte *Nighthawk*, this is what most players - i want to impose - expect. Then you take a look at the current *Astarte* and check your shader settings if there are some bugs hidden there.

If the nighthawk is the standard for next level model+textures though, I shall fall in love with respective artist foreva.

Aria Jimbojohnson
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-11-15 13:41:28 UTC
Changes are interesting, but I'm not sure yet if its overdone or not. The amount of reflection makes most of the ships look like they're made out of aluminum, like a freshly waxed new car. Not sure if spaceships that constantly take blows in the megaton range should be made out of aluminum.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2014-11-15 13:43:47 UTC
love the gold on the amarr ships, absolutely glorious.
Saberlily Whyteshadow
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-11-15 14:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Saberlily Whyteshadow
The Mach.. has turned into a Minni ship.. Evil

Everything looks like HDR on steroids.
Torgeir Hekard
#8 - 2014-11-15 14:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Torgeir Hekard
Dunno about what ships aren't there yet and what with bugreports, but with shaders on low most ships for me look like this

Either this or they don't exist at all besides lights (apparently those that are not done yet, because it happens to minnie ships).
The only ships doing fine are T3s.

With shaders on not-low the "existing" ships look fine.

I have Nvidia GT 645M with 331.38 driver under linux.

EDIT: integrated Ivy bridge intel video looks the same
ScorpyX Neoris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-11-15 15:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ScorpyX Neoris
first of all I want to say "Hell, It's about time"
I am glad that CCP not far behind the quality of the whole gaming industry (and often even ahead)

some minor problems with old model textures - but I think this will be fixed in future

and of course new ships design must be not only with right scale
but now also with right material types in mind (because in PBR its matter)
I also noticed that some of the newer ships have already been made with PBR in mind

Unfortunately I did not catch the time to try it myself on SiSi - and have little question
-- Physically Based Shading required scattered (blurred) version of reflection for "Rough" materials
(because now reflections is really important part of whole visual with PBR)
so how EVE handles it - with math in shader or just by set of low resolution blurred cubemap textures?
(how strongly felt the difference between rough and smooth materials ?)

PS. it will be awesome visual boost when CCP artists get used to PBS\PBR and also fix old textures
(and roughness masks - if used "roughness" workflow)
i hope with time players(people) will understand that with PBR any object of EVE World may look
like this image - or this video - or this image - or this image
(first time "metal" will feel like a real metal) - and this is only the beginning
Rokko Yazria
#10 - 2014-11-15 15:39:35 UTC
Kudos!! to all involved with the Falcon redesign.
Everyone goin to wanna be "Jammin" when this goes live. Big smileBig smile
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-11-15 15:49:02 UTC
Argh too late. Noticed I can't see any Minmatar hulls, cried a little and wrote a bug report. :(

But I really like what I've seen so far. :)

Looking for more thoughts? Follow me on Twitter.

Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-11-15 15:51:00 UTC
Overall looking good!

Amarr gold is just perfect as is the colour contrast in general. Shadows are a definite improvement and bring out the hull lights well.

The reflectiveness is mostly good but some points look a bit too bright in my opinion. It doesn't take into account the chipped paint either and reflects the surface as one. Also, if you stay behind something big such as a station, the sun reflections are still there. Of course these shouldn't be a big issue.

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.

Saberlily Whyteshadow
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-11-15 16:54:40 UTC
The new blackbird.. SEXY!! Cool
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-11-15 17:17:02 UTC
Altrue wrote:
First impressions:

Kaalakiota ships looks covered with rust (example). Just like caldari navy ships.

Overall there is a loss of details on the ships, just like if they were lower resolution (example)

Scorpion is grey, not dark grey anymore, which is rather sad. (illustration).

So yeah, my focus is mainly on caldari ships, because gallente and amarr one are rather nice already... But caldari ships are not really convincing. They look made out of plastic, just like mordu's legion ones, pre PBR or post PBR. (Which looks nicer post PBR)

Any chance of comparison at the same graphical settings (Sisi most likely reset your settings)? I'm really not seeing any loss of detail and I rpefer the new paint which looks like it's been chipped away from the joints on the plates.
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2014-11-15 17:43:59 UTC
Gallente T2 in general looks odd now, way too shiny especially when the other races are now more matte than ever. Makes the ships look less realistic and more like toys. Duvolle colors in general just seem weird. They were some of my favorite looking ships before the patch (especially Astarte) but now they look like a shiny mess. Roden is similarly too shiny (just look at oneiros or lachesis). CreoDron is better; perhaps still a bit too shiny for my tastes but I still like the look of ships like the Sin. The Amastratis and Ultramarine miasmos look kind of weird, but they're not seen often so it doesn't bother me nearly as much.

T1 is better, still some overly shiny bits (Moros) but overall much better. Very happy with Navy, Serpentis, as well as the various corp skins. Love the deeper yellow on the Inner Zone ships and the blue on standard Quafe. One oddity I noticed is that the Erebus is nearly completely silver now which doesnt fit with the rest of Gallente T1 as much as it used to.

Other than that though the new shaders look really good. Particular favorites of mine are T1 Amarr, Amarr Navy, Nugueohevi, Caldari Navy, and Kador.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#16 - 2014-11-15 18:07:33 UTC
some of the standard caldari ships look a little flat but overall it looks great and the shadows OMG
Bam Stroker
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#17 - 2014-11-15 18:22:28 UTC
Reposting what I posted here not realising there was already discussion in this forum:

Hello friends,

In CCP Seagull's dev blog on Rhea she mentioned the new 'Physically Based Rendering' that CCP will be introducing in the next release. I suggest you look at that section in the dev blog before continuing:

Like most people when I saw in the GIF in the blog of the Apocalypse and Oracle I was very impressed but I've just spent a few hours on Sisi looking at the new appearance of the ships and I'm a bit concerned.

It seems to me that PBR works fantastically for some ships but not so well for others. Most Amarr ships look amazing with this new technique but Gallente ships look much too glossy and Caldari ships seems a bit to "flat" and either cartoon-ey or pastel-ey. Here are some screenshots that I've stolen from Reddit which show some of the new hulls. From these you can already see what I'm getting at but the issue is even more pronounced when in-game. I'd encourage people to hop on Sisi and see what I mean by that. Check out the Gallente Duvolle ships in particular (Taranis, Arazu, Astarte) for overly glossy and virtually any Caldari ship hull for really flat, dry looks.

I guess my feedback on PBR for the ships coming in Rhea is that while the Amarr ships generally look great, others are a step backward from where they are now. Ideally all the ships would look better but from what I've seen after examining about 40 different ships currently on Sisi it'll be a scenario with some winners but a lot of losers from the PBR effort.

CCP: please revisit the Gallente and Caldari ships. Make the former less shiny and the latter more "vibrant".

I can't remark on Minmatar ships since as of the time of this post there are no Minnie ships showing at all on Sisi.

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Kaylin Drake
Profound Destiny
#18 - 2014-11-15 19:05:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylin Drake
Some Caldari ships look really terrible. I am sorry to say that because the Amarr ships I've seen look amazing. Two years ago or somewhere in there you reskinned the drake and it has a ton of detail on TQ and on SISI it looks severely washed out and dull (shown here: This feels like a step backwards for some ships. I just don't see the same love and detail in the other ships as I do the Amarr ships (which look beautiful!).

I do like the blackbird though!
Aikar Nahrnid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-11-15 19:24:23 UTC
My impressions:
- Most of ships looks just awesome. Especially Amarr ans Caldari ships. I disagree that caldari looks "plastic", just matte. It makes them more consistent, you know.
- Impel has texture bug on t2 thrusters.
- Ishukone color scheme looks worse than not PBR version. I suppose it needs complete rethink. (And make Raptor Ishukone ship!)
- KK scheme just awesome. But Nighthawk looks too rusty. All another Drake variants too.
- Duvolle Labs scheme is too shiny. Needs fix.
- Big problems with color of "interior lights" on most amarr and some other ships (mostly green on amarrs).
- I hope turrets and launchers will use PBR as soon as possible too.
- I completely love new Federation Navy look.
- Sarum scheme will looks better with little more shiny golden plates. Make them as shiny as t1 one.
- Not sure if all Ok with sansha ships (lack of "green oil"), but I like new look.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2014-11-15 19:25:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
OH GOD! Please don't do that to the Ark! Do not do this to the Ark! Shocked

It's obviously an error, but holy hell does this inverted form of the Carthum color pattern look ugly. Ugh


I have the same problem as a couple of months ago with the Legion, where 1 Legion subsystem config shows the expected golden shine on the ornaments and another subsystem setup this muddy brown instead. Note that I only switched the Offensive Subsystem from Covert (Gold) to Assault Opti (Muddy).


Might be my imagination, but the current Viziam PBR lights on the Redemer it look like a plastic toy, but this might just be because it lacks a bumpmap height difference between the green part and the base parts.


The Kaalakiota and especially the Widow really look like they are fresh from a Minmatar scrapyard: worn out, scrapped and barely holding together.


The Ishukone ships, on the other hand, definitely have way too much gold. The Eagle used black as base color with gold-gradient on the accent parts of the hull, like this. This must not change, and especially not in this way where the Eagel looks more like a Caldari pimp's ship than a military vessel. Also, what are these random hull additions supposed to be? Like the humps on top of the wing canisters, or the hump on the neck? The Eagle is not Quasimodo! Or this completely useless lance on the head of the Eagle. What is that? Remove them! Make a better effort in differentiating the models from each other! Waste less time on the NES and putt more of that time into the ships! ôO

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

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