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Did Oddyssey succeed?

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Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#1 - 2014-11-14 00:36:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Liz Laser
I left the game just as Odyssey was going to be released. I just returned last week.

One debate point from the Odyssey dev blog has probably been resolved, and I'm curious what the results were...

I had argued, in the Odyssey dev blog comments thread, that you can't flog high-sec industry/mining players into null by making high-sec less rewarding.

I seriously doubt CCP ran the census I suggested they run before and after that patch, so I doubt there is an OBJECTIVE proof that I was wrong or right.

I am curious to hear people's subjective opinions on whether high-sec players moved en-masse to null to follow the isk, like many posters told me they would.

Just to be clear, I have always wanted null to be the best place to do ANYTHING, I was just skeptical that players who had avoided null could be flogged into it.

So, how did it turn out?
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-11-14 00:41:48 UTC


I'd do anything for a good flogging.


I have no idea what you're talking about.

Call me Joe.
Paranoid Loyd
#3 - 2014-11-14 00:42:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Dinsdale is still on "vacation" so you wont get much out of this.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#4 - 2014-11-14 01:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Liz Laser
Jvpiter wrote:


I'd do anything for a good flogging.


I have no idea what you're talking about.


It was a debate in this 50 page threadnaught devblog comments thread prior to Odyssey's release.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2945312#post2945312

tldr The CSM wanted CCP to do stuff to push high-sec players into null-sec. Odyssey was CCP's answer.

My real life got too busy to stay in Eve, so I didn't get to see the results, but had always been curious what happened.
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-11-14 01:11:36 UTC


In the linked thread you are talking about making it less likely that null players will need to go to hisec for Tritanium.


You are speaking against a nullsec buff.


It doesn't match your original post in the least. Please clarify.


Call me Joe.
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#6 - 2014-11-14 02:52:12 UTC
Jvpiter wrote:


In the linked thread you are talking about making it less likely that null players will need to go to hisec for Tritanium.


You are speaking against a nullsec buff.


It doesn't match your original post in the least. Please clarify.




I'm not sure exactly which of my many posts in that thread you refer to, but

1) Null-sec had NO SHORTAGE of unmined Veldspar pre-Odyssey.

2) Null-sec also had the high-end ores that sell well in all secs.

So null was already the best place to mine as far as making isk.

Oddyssey adding trit to high end ores was more of an attempt to make high-sec less necessary by letting null get trit while mining the high-ends ores that sell well in all secs, without stooping to mine Veldspar.

Yes that's good for null, so you can call it a buff, but it's bad for high-sec by making them less needed and was one of many things meant to flog players out of high-sec into null.

And one of my worries was that it would lead to LESS HAULING between null and high-sec, which means less content and less conflict. I want null to be the best place to mine/rat/plex, but I also want to see hauling. In the classic sense, who would play a pirate game when there's no treasure being hauled?

So, I'm often torn between what will make my life more enjoyable in null, and what's best for the game overall. I'm not *so* null-centric that I want to see high-sec unsubscribe.

But even in that thread I admitted that I was occasionally positing ideas against some of my own points. I was (like everyone else that month) still trying to wrap my head around the new changes and their ramifications.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#7 - 2014-11-14 03:05:38 UTC
In a sense it did...sort of. ABCs tanked and for a while hemo, hed, and jaspet were the top dogs (aside from Mercoxit which is always higher)

Then they added Crius, which completely redid industry and how reprocessing mechanics worked resulting in it being impossible to get 100% refine in higshec ever again, even with a POS. Additionally they buffed the amount of minerals in all ores so that the raw minerals coming from those ores was still roughly the same in highsec even though the reprocess efficiency went down. At the same time they gave buffs to the nullsec outposts reprocessing by increasing the base yield before skills.

Yet another nullsec buff, and ironically, the values of the rarer ores tanked again, I assume due to over-mining of them (compression makes transporting ores out of hostile zones infinitely easier too) or due to some material changes in blueprints as part of the indy overhaul in Crius.

However, this was all part of CCP's master plan, as Phoebe, that just came out, heavily nerfed jump drives, so much so they have allowed capitals to use stargates. The JFs have had their max range brought to 10LY and all non-gate or WH jumps will now enact a jump timer with fatigue. Haulers and JFs got a large reduction to fatigue generated, but it's still a nerf to the logistic capabilities for nullsec as a whole. And once CCP is happy with the state of null industry they'll likely remove the bonuses the haulers get and drop the JF to 5 LY like everything else.

Currently, Gneiss, Kernite and Plag are the top 3 after Mercoxit. Mexallon is in high demand apparently.

The Drake is a Lie
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-11-14 04:05:11 UTC
Liz Laser wrote:
Yes that's good for null, so you can call it a buff, but it's bad for high-sec by making them less needed and was one of many things meant to flog players out of high-sec into null.



I like how enthusiastic you are about "flogging", and as stated before I quite enjoy it myself, but allow me to ask you a question.


Is it so bad if CCP made a change that resulted in a measurable exodus of the player alt base from high to null?


Call me Joe.
Serene Repose
#9 - 2014-11-14 14:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Posting to a thread on a subject I obviously know nothing about. I try mining now and then, just to keep my hand in.
I have my dog trained to jump on me in fifteen minute intervals to lick me in the face as a comatose prevention method.

It seems to work. But, that's licking, not flogging. I wonder if I could get someone to come in....house calls....

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Xavier Holtzman
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#10 - 2014-11-14 14:53:06 UTC
Posting in a stealth "Tell me I was right" / "I told you so" thread.

I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it. - Bill Frug
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2014-11-14 15:05:47 UTC
OP reactivated account just so he/she can go on about how he/she left Eve because of Odyssey.

What's wrong with this picture?

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#12 - 2014-11-14 15:11:21 UTC
Jvpiter wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:
Yes that's good for null, so you can call it a buff, but it's bad for high-sec by making them less needed and was one of many things meant to flog players out of high-sec into null.



I like how enthusiastic you are about "flogging", and as stated before I quite enjoy it myself, but allow me to ask you a question.


Is it so bad if CCP made a change that resulted in a measurable exodus of the player alt base from high to null?




Consensual flogging might be the best activity ever invented by humankind. Blink

A measurable exodus from high to null would be great. I was simply skeptical it would occur with the announced changes.

I'm in null now and I'm not seeing the "thriving vibrant null-sec industrial economy" that some CSM apologists/cheerleaders were promising pre-Odyssey.

But I'll admit I've only looked around in one null region's market. It's *possible* there's a great industrial economy below the surface (or elsewhere in null) and maybe the markets look empty due to a recent war, or because it all got shipped elsewhere, or even because people here prefer to PvP and ignore industry. I've only been there for a few hours of gametime and will need to travel more before I can decide if I, as a self described failed null-sec industrialist, would want to give industry another try.

In the meantime I can be perfectly happy doing the PvP I came out to null to do.
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#13 - 2014-11-14 15:13:57 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Posting to a thread on a subject I obviously know nothing about. I try mining now and then, just to keep my hand in.
I have my dog trained to jump on me in fifteen minute intervals to lick me in the face as a comatose prevention method.

It seems to work. But, that's licking, not flogging. I wonder if I could get someone to come in....house calls....


I've suggested that mining (in all secs) ought to be a more involving and entertaining activity where players are rushing around from place to place.
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#14 - 2014-11-14 15:22:08 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
OP reactivated account just so he/she can go on about how he/she left Eve because of Odyssey.

What's wrong with this picture?


No, the reality is: OP re-activated account because OP has once again developed the leisure to PvP in null. Being in sov null is a serious time obligation.

Back then I didn't have this much leisure (and I still don't have lots and lots), and had moved to high-sec looking for some small chunks of entertainment when I had 45 minutes, and not finding it, I let my subscription run out.

If I didn't have the time for sov warfare, I'd once again unsubscribe. High sec is STILL not entertaining to me.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#15 - 2014-11-14 15:27:24 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
A ton of stuff has happened since Odyssey. It's been one and a half years, with 6 expansions, almost all of which had impacts on the livability in different areas of space. I think you're going to find it very hard to isolate the effects of ore changes on nullsec vs hisec life, when the same stuff has been impacted by new deployables, new ships, industry interface overhaul, reprocessing/refinement changes, invention changes, and a serious hit to fast long distance travel (plus other stuff, I'm sure).

Eve's metagame and cross-region balance has changed, but try to not attribute it solely (or even primarily) to just one of the many contributing factors.

Ed: Also, welcome back!

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#16 - 2014-11-14 15:29:36 UTC
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
Posting in a stealth "Tell me I was right" / "I told you so" thread.


In the old thread I admitted to being a failed null-sec industrialist.

While being told I was right about Odyssey might be satisfying to my ego, being told that I was horribly wrong, with examples of the thriving and vibrant null-sec industrial economy flourishing thanks to Odyssey, is the answer I'd love to hear.

I've admitted to being wrong before, and THAT thread is one I'd really like to be wrong about.

But I got all my voice comms up and working last night, so now I can just fly around and see for myself.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#17 - 2014-11-14 15:32:27 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Posting to a thread on a subject I obviously know nothing about. I try mining now and then, just to keep my hand in.
I have my dog trained to jump on me in fifteen minute intervals to lick me in the face as a comatose prevention method.

It seems to work. But, that's licking, not flogging. I wonder if I could get someone to come in....house calls....


If you don't have a mining permit somebody will make a house call in your system soon™.
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#18 - 2014-11-14 15:32:57 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
A ton of stuff has happened since Odyssey. It's been one and a half years, with 6 expansions, almost all of which had impacts on the livability in different areas of space. I think you're going to find it very hard to isolate the effects of ore changes on nullsec vs hisec life, when the same stuff has been impacted by new deployables, new ships, industry interface overhaul, reprocessing/refinement changes, invention changes, and a serious hit to fast long distance travel (plus other stuff, I'm sure).

Eve's metagame and cross-region balance has changed, but try to not attribute it solely (or even primarily) to just one of the many contributing factors.

Ed: Also, welcome back!


Thanks. That makes sense. I was just always curious about that patch, but I'm learning to be just as curious about all the patches since then.

e.g. interceptors!!! :-)
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#19 - 2014-11-14 15:35:34 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
Posting to a thread on a subject I obviously know nothing about. I try mining now and then, just to keep my hand in.
I have my dog trained to jump on me in fifteen minute intervals to lick me in the face as a comatose prevention method.

It seems to work. But, that's licking, not flogging. I wonder if I could get someone to come in....house calls....


If you don't have a mining permit somebody will make a house call in your system soon™.


So, I can pay $15 a month for a world famous PvP game and then pay in game currency to get LESS PvP?

What a deal! Roll
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#20 - 2014-11-14 19:15:50 UTC
Liz Laser wrote:


So, I can pay $15 a month for a world famous PvP game and then pay in game currency to get LESS PvP?

What a deal! Roll



wat?

Just Add Water
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