Wormholes

Ok so I've read all the posts and two of them stand out as being particularly banal and yours is the second one.

Let me elucidate on the issue for you so you can understand:

1. I'm not paying to play this game so I can sit there and do nothing.
2. When I'm online, I should be able to do something with the credible threat of being hunted down and shot to death, not the incredible threat of having someone automatically know I'm there because the game lets them.

What you are proposing is exactly the same as having someone sitting on the curb outside my house, accessing and using my Wifi at full speed for as long as they want, all day every day. And in your fantasy world I'm required to just wait for them to get bored and drive home before I'm allowed to use the service I'm paying for because of some utterly arbitrary ruleset that denies me the power to lock them out of my own internal system.

Now a logical response would be to set a password or otherwise deny incoming connection requests except for whitelisted devices which I would have to specify. In your completely crazy interpretation of this game this isn't allowed just because you're not allowed. You're not allowed to proactively defend yourself against this type of invasion. That's literally the scenario you are advocating because you don't understand what you're talking about.

I have a real life. I don't work from home and I don't use a computer at work. I'm not going to leave my computer running all day every day just to satisfy this beauracratic requirement that I waste my own time doing NOTHING in a game I play for fun just so other people get bored and stop paying attention to me. Not only is this an incredibly stupid thing to have to do it's also catagorically bad gameplay and should be excised like the cancer of intellectual integrity it is.

@Montgomery Black: mate I respect that you're genuinely trying to help, so I'm going to address your points one by one.

1. I didn't even know these people existed until today. Literally our only interaction was seeing them on d-scan with an anathema and then combat probing him, which prompted the forementioned t3's to appear. In the 5 hours since that initial encounter they've tried to scram me twice despite me going totally inactive for like 4 hours straight. Someone was literally waiting that entire time in the hole for me, knowing I was online. The fact they knew I was online was the sole reason they stayed there waiting for me. It's a very simple progression of logic.

2. I'm not pure pve, check my killboard. I'm not going to just leave my hole either and play somewhere else because taking your ball and going home when the other players don't follow your rules is bad gameplay and is not to be encouraged.

3. I have friends in WH space, unfortunately it's friday night and they had better things to do than come defend my hole at 6pm. I imagine they were getting drunk. Probably.

4. I could have offered a ransom, but that's not a binding agreement is it. Denial of service through not logging in however is 100% effective. It's still bad gameplay. It's not healthy for the game to have people being forced to log out forever because they literally have no recourse against someone. Things like this result in (whowouldathunkit) drone assign nerfs, bomber nerfs, RR nerfs, pulsar nerfs, capital jump drive nerfs and a whole host of other changes deliberately introduced by CCP in order to limit the capacity of one group in being able to force another in to using the "the only winning move is not to play" card. Because people not logging in is bad for the game.

5. This one is particularly vexing. Because you're too lazy to probe I have to be visible at all times. That's fundamentally what you're saying. I'd like to use a real life example here and I like to use real life examples for very good reasons. Because in real life animals exist in an equilibrium between predator and prey species. Watchlisting amounts to giving wolves bionic eyes that allow them to see the thermal signatures of their prey species (and of their own natural predators). This kind of mechanic if it were introduced in to real animals would destabilise their equilibrium by allowing the wolves to become disproportionately effective at hunting compared to the defence of the deer. It gives the wolves an information advantage at avoiding bears or whatever as well. In this way players can avoid being hotdropped by supers because they just watchlist and if the supers log on en masse you know something is up and to bail out.

You say that hunting is too hard and that finding things to shoot is too hard so you need watchlists to help you know when people are online to shoot. Have you ever considered that this made you too effective at killing and that the reason you should let watchlisting be removed is because it would slow down the rate that people are being killed therefore encouraging a higher population to accumulate because the survival rate is better?

In my particular case I can't run, I can only hide. Unfortunately I can only hide properly by being logged off. Logging on and sitting there doing nothing while cloaked doesn't help me, it doesn't help the game, it doesn't help the guys chasing me, it does nothing but diminish the game experience. If they couldn't watchlist me then they would be required to actively search for me which would most likely result in a higher activity level per player because they're having to perform more work cooperatively to pin down opponents, the same as how wolves running in a pack increases success rates because more eyes and more ears means more chances of detection. Not because of cheap gimmicks.

That is completely different. You are so far off the mark you have landed out of the ball park and in to the sea.

War-deccing is a mechanic which can be avoided, it also allows you to shoot back in highsec without interference. It allows you introduce more friends than they have and attack their assets. Critically it requires that your war-targets actually sacrifice money and time towards the effect of being at war with you. And that's just a very brief overview of the wardec system which you clearly do not understand at all. I did wardecs for a YEAR. I know them.

Being watchlisted is free. It presents literally no risk whatsoever to the person doing the watchlisting whatsoever, other than that they might waste time pursuing a target that isn't where they thought they were. But then locator agents solve that problem too, don't they? Another cheap gimmick that needs immediate nerfing. If people want to be elite bounty hunters that pursue people across the universe it should require more effort than paying 200,000 ISK to some NPC who then tells you what you need to know. And please don't bring up standings, that's just ridiculous. How locator agents and standings are even tied to each other is just another invisible wall that makes no sense either.

And no, you're wrong again. See I'm not the one feeling entitled to total safety, *you're* the one who feels entitled to free intel provided by a counter-intuitive system that literally degrades the game.

Yeah. this is the same argument as the war decs except that it's free, as if the expense of a war dec is something the high sec corps even consider. I don't use the watch list because I can't be bothered, however, I'm thinking about making an exception for you. You're whinging doesn't explain how people knowing you're online prevents you from playing. Again, you seem to feel that you're entitled to live your gameplaying life in solitude (not the system), yet you decided to play an MMO.

I'm glad to hear you "did wardecs for a YEAR" which means you should understand the idea that you can invite friends to help you fight in your wormhole, move out, or go bugger off down the chain. Knowing you're online does not mean knowing where you are, especially in WH space.

Seeing how you respond to people though, and seeing your initial wall of whinging, I'm guessing you didn't make nice with whomever is in your hole and they're going to hunt you. That's on you, not them. We're never as innocent as we want to believe.

I'm starting to lose any sympathy I had for you, seriously, if people are hunting you maybe it's you?

The watchlist tells them you are online. That is the only thing it tells them. If by chance they happen to know where you are then you have to control that variable and not whine about them knowing you are online. I'm sorry that you were in the unfortunate situation of your hunters knowing where you are. However that is easily controlled by one simple decision to be somewhere else. So far you have showed what others are calling entitlement by saying "no, I want to stay here and still avoid them." Well, you can't, so suck it up.

If you leave your hole it no longer matters that they know you are online. If you have a T3 with a mobile depot you could leave cloaked, refit in another hole and run some anoms. Then refit to cloaky before you come back. If you go a few holes down the chain they will have a real hard time finding you. All you have to do is accept that your original plans are cancelled and then it's easy to choose to do something else.

Just from your replies to everyone;I have lost all sympathy for you.

I hope they find you and pod you out of your hole for being such a whiney little *****.

It isn't free. It takes time. time = isk.

as far as tracking agents, why shouldn't it work that way? and in the case of wh space, it's useful in a few scenarios. and again, it takes a crazy amount of time and energy to get done. so not free or limited to 200k.

So a couple of thoughts.

Neither of these issues are "wormhole" specific, as the information and watchlist mechanics work equally well in all areas of space.

While WL mechanics are OP as others point out, it also is part of the game and ultimately its a "deal with it" situation.

So while some of your points are kinda valid, you still end up whining like a 0.0 renter with an afk cloaker in their system.

So go do something about it. Set a trap. Take some cheap hulls and derp into them. Most WH types will respect you more for at least trying to fight and dying than sitting at the POS whining. I've had that sitation in the past. Tried a trap. Failed MISERABLY.

I ended up having a great convo with them, made some friends, and they moved on. It is one of the best parts of WH's IMO.

Oh and I just couldn't resist

http://youtu.be/7YvAYIJSSZY

The Dusette lives. And there was much rejoining ask through new Eden.

I agree with the argument against the WL mechanics (see PL popping a guy's titan the first time he logs in for two years to understand why the mechanic is borked everywhere), but this doesn't really seem to be a thread about the mechanic. Perhaps we should start a separate thread for actual discussion, and leave this for the complaint factory it is.