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Dev blog: Thera and the Shattered Wormholes

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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#181 - 2014-11-14 00:53:28 UTC
Sgt Soulless wrote:

  • Giant systems make d-scan useless as a warning system.
  • Not requiring the site to be scanned down makes d-scan useless as a warning system.

    • It actually makes it easier. Keep scanning at max range, and if anything pops up, there's a very, very high chance they're after you. Warp out and safe up until the threat passes. If they're using cloakies, that's when you put the Venture to use. If you lose a Venture, it's replaced 10x with a single load of ore.

    Sgt Soulless wrote:

  • No place to unload ore. All the logistics of mining become much more difficult, time consuming, and riskier (read: less profitable).

    • I think, and hope, that Thera will basically become its own little ecosystem. Due to a significantly-greater difficult with logistics, industry will (I hope) be much more common inside. Miners can sell to industrialists inside the hole, who sell in turn to the PvP'ers. That's my personal hope, at least.

    Sgt Soulless wrote:

    The whole thing is more risk and less reward than the same activity in nullsec. If I want to nomad mine, why would I do it in these systems? I can do the same thing in nullsec (and I'm way more likely to have a nullsec connection), but have the option to set up a POS as a temporary base and the comfort of local chat showing me every threat in the system. These sites are a complete waste of server memory.

    Not everyone plays for chance of pure ISK profit. For some, it's the thrill of the chase and evading the predators. Others, it's hunting this exact type. Some people actually enjoy a solid challenge, as opposed to having the near-perfect security vigilance and a good intel channel provide.

    Sgt Soulless wrote:

    And I like the idea of Thera, but if CCP wants it to be busy it's not going to happen as a 0.0 system. It's just going to be filled with small gang pvp campers sitting on every station and wormhole, using interdictors and T3s to get easy kills. It'll probably have a high-sec exit near a hub pretty frequently if it's so connected to k-space, and it won't be worth the risk of moving in any significant quantity of items to sell. CCP has basically crossed Mos Eisley with Brigadoon, and expects it to be a bustling metropolis. Yeah, that'll happen. Of course, given the vast emptiness of nullsec, it might still be the most populous 0.0 system.

    Thera isn't nulsec, it's a wormhole. From my first looks at it, it looks like it could easily support its own little ecosystem. Regarding the issue with T3's, I'm hoping that will be addressed during the T3 rebalance. We'll see what happens then, I suppose, but I'm looking forward to Thera in the interim.

    Sgt Soulless wrote:
    Now if Thera was a 0.5 system, that would be a different story. Then it's a floating high-sec island that could be a viable market hub for all of nullsec and might actually have a significant impact on the game. As it's described, it sounds more like a PvP arena that's hard to get to.

    If Thera were a 0.5, it would be Hek. We already have Hek. And it's really rather quite uninteresting. No, thank you.

    For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
    GizzyBoy
    I N E X T R E M I S
    Tactical Narcotics Team
    #182 - 2014-11-14 01:12:01 UTC
    Lyron-Baktos wrote:
    Two step wrote:


    For example, you "hate" the frig holes, but they played a small part in being able to get reinforcements into our home system during the recent invasion. They certainly can be a pain from time to time, but they do add an interesting new mechanic to w-space, one that is hard for existing groups to control and even understand..


    yes, it helped you but why push content out that most people do not want and where it was only useful like one time. Just about every WH player and group ignores them

    Where are all the youtube videos of frigate fights in frigate holes? Where are all the frigate battles in KM reports? I don't see any.



    your not allowed to post km's here, but all the exit strategy people plus other friends came in the frigate hole.
    a month prior to this whilst battling some one in our static (tlc i think) I and 4 other people engaged a disavowed gang comprised of pizza? and neg density on/around the frig hole with frig logistics on both sides, in a wolf rayet. Small weapon damage was glorious.

    I know of other groups (Isogen5) who killed some marauders with a frig hole.

    I guess however you hate said feature so much you will never jump through it, and thus miss out on the above content.

    TheSmokingHertog
    Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
    #183 - 2014-11-14 01:43:32 UTC
    Can you make Courier Contracts to the Thera stations?

    "Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

    "Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

    -= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
    Deacon Abox
    Black Eagle5
    #184 - 2014-11-14 01:50:14 UTC
    Saisin wrote:
    Mizhir wrote:
    This is looking good. I like the concept of the shattered systems for attracting preys and predators. Though I have one major issue with the small ship ones. If you give them the normal C6 WR bonus you will just exclude shield ships. Make it a special WH effect instead (which could also be integrated in the lore and why they only allow small ships).


    Agreed, please keep shield fitted ships in mind...

    What the ubiquitous Tengu can't reign here also? This is not acceptable dammit.Roll

    CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

    Winter Archipelago
    Autumn Industrial Enterprises
    #185 - 2014-11-14 02:40:23 UTC
    TheSmokingHertog wrote:
    Can you make Courier Contracts to the Thera stations?

    Yes: http://puu.sh/cPTop/cbc6f72ead.jpg

    For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
    Two step
    Aperture Harmonics
    #186 - 2014-11-14 03:08:56 UTC
    Steven Hackett wrote:

    I wrote a long post questioning your abilities to read the threadnaughts, listen to the townhalls and gather opinions and I commented your job as a CSM. I edited the post because this isn't the place for it..

    All I needed to say is that I think some of the additions are good, but the implementation is terrible.

    The only place I wrote "We" as in "the communitys opinion" was about frig holes, and that opinion was made very clear in threadnaughts and in debates @ townhalls. I apologize if you feel that "we" meant "Two Step"...


    Oh god, please put back your opinions about how I don't understand threadnaughts

    CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
    afkboss
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #187 - 2014-11-14 03:33:29 UTC
    I was hoping for some systems that could only be found by WH that acted like regular systems. There could be a couple between Stain and Tash-Murkon that could be very strategically important for Cynos.
    Cardano Firesnake
    Fire Bullet Inc
    #188 - 2014-11-14 04:25:53 UTC
    It is a world where a probe launcher is not an option.
    But all ships are not able to fit probe launchers, and there is no ship with a bonus to fit them...

    To me the two most important things to do to make this new gameplay useful is to reduce the CPU fitting on probe launchers and to make 6 buttons or shortcuts that recalibrate views in probe scanner to easily place your probes...

    Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
    Steven Hackett
    Overload This
    TURBOFEED OR GLORY
    #189 - 2014-11-14 04:32:39 UTC
    Two step wrote:

    Oh god, please put back your opinions about how I don't understand threadnaughts


    Since you ignored the message I sent you...

    Steven Hackett wrote:
    The only place I wrote "We" as in "the communitys opinion" was about frig holes, and that opinion was made very clear in threadnaughts and in debates @ townhalls. I apologize if you feel that "we" meant "Two Step"...


    Should say it all.. I never questioned your ability to understand the meaning of a threadnaught, but if you can't read and gather info from them, then the threadnaught it self is rather useless. Oh.. and congratz on all the good stuff that came as a result of your threadnaught.

    In any case, if you choose to ignore the many posts because they don't fall in line with your opinion, then I rest my case..
    Saisin
    Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
    #190 - 2014-11-14 04:33:18 UTC
    Querns wrote:
    Saisin wrote:
    Red Teufel wrote:
    Thera

    Why allow dictor and hic bubbles and only have 4 stations. Its just a station campers dream and a place for coalitions to go on vacation to. just seem very underwhelming to me and definitely not a Jita of WH space. please add more stations and bar hic and dic bubbles.


    I kind of agree with that too... 4 stations may be too low for the traffic this system will likely see, and having them perma-camped will be counter productive to what it can become...

    I am gonna go out on a limb and guess that players are responsible for clearing camps, not CCP. Given that this is a wormhole system with few local resources, destroying enemy forces puts a real hamper on their ability to reship due to the vagaries of how things get in and out of the system. This is a 0.0 system, not highsec ­-- play appropriately.


    I am not too surprised that this response comes from a goon... As a member of one of the largest coalition, it make sense you prefer having four station. You do know full well you will have the resources to keep 4 stations perma-camped, and unlike regular WH you can simply reship immediately. I do not believe one instant that goons will be affected by abailities to reship even in Thera, like smaller groups will..

    As for your suggestion of having players clearing camps, I fully agree, but if you force the mega groups to spread their resources thinner across a larger number of stations then other smaller player groups really have a chance to break such a camp...

    with only four stations, it will be simply a fight between the largest groups around the 4 stations...

    Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

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    Lady Rift
    His Majesty's Privateers
    #191 - 2014-11-14 04:38:46 UTC
    Cardano Firesnake wrote:
    It is a world where a probe launcher is not an option.
    But all ships are not able to fit probe launchers, and there is no ship with a bonus to fit them...

    To me the two most important things to do to make this new gameplay useful is to reduce the CPU fitting on probe launchers and to make 6 buttons or shortcuts that recalibrate views in probe scanner to easily place your probes...



    pretty easy to fit.


    powergrid usage
    1 MW
    CPU usageCPU usage
    15 tf


    if you wanna combat scan get a real ship for it.
    Emiko Rowna
    Keys To The Stars
    #192 - 2014-11-14 05:29:02 UTC
    CCP Fozzie, what do you see as the downside of having more than 4 stations in Thera? The system does seem large enough to support more stations. Would ORE have any interest in Thera?
    Emiko Rowna
    Keys To The Stars
    #193 - 2014-11-14 06:17:37 UTC
    A new playground for Red vs. Blue?
    King Fu Hostile
    Mea Culpa.
    Shadow Cartel
    #194 - 2014-11-14 08:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: King Fu Hostile
    Steven Hackett wrote:


    The only place I wrote "We" as in "the communitys opinion" was about frig holes, and that opinion was made very clear in threadnaughts and in debates @ townhalls. I apologize if you feel that "we" meant "Two Step"...


    No, you are simply wrong. Just because you are a risk averse scrub doesn't mean rest of the w-space is.

    You're really only saying that you never take any fights that you could lose, and that you are afraid of frigates because they require actual players skills and not simply 6 Guardians to keep you alive.

    Your opinion does not reflect the opinion of the wh community. Not about frigate holes or anything else.
    Rek Seven
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #195 - 2014-11-14 08:11:43 UTC
    Allowing jump cloning into Thera is a really bad idea IMO. EVERYONE will have a jump clone in there and anytime anything interesting happens, thousands of people will clone jump in and the place will be plagued with tidi... I struggle to see how allowing people to jump into this systems is a good thing and i think it just makes the whole thing seem less special/interesting.

    If more of these station wormholes get added then allowing jump clones between them would be cool but not k-space to Thera.

    The wishlist is pretty much complete...
    ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
    ISD Community Communications Liaisons
    ISD Alliance
    #196 - 2014-11-14 08:35:46 UTC
    Removed some off topic posts.

    ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

    Senior Lead

    Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

    Interstellar Services Department
    Fred Kyong
    Grollwerk
    #197 - 2014-11-14 08:57:29 UTC
    As told:

    - Ice Belts in WH. Yes
    - No Moons. If ice belts present, ok with me
    - Stations in WH. No. Hostile Fleets login/ logoff there- better move to NPC 0 sec

    No need for me or my corp as I can see.
    Rivr Luzade
    Coreli Corporation
    Pandemic Legion
    #198 - 2014-11-14 09:12:21 UTC
    Chirality Tisteloin wrote:
    Gogela wrote:
    KatanTharkay wrote:
    Advertised as the largest system ever, I was hoping that this would be the first multiple star system in EVE Sad. Well, maybe some other time.

    A binary? That IS a really cool idea!


    A neutron star feeding on a red giant complete with accretion disc would also fit the destructive mood :)

    Like so: http://cseligman.com/text/stars/binary.htm

    I guess next time ...


    Stop making me drool. Shocked

    UI Improvement Collective

    My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
    Dalron
    0.0 Massive Dynamic
    Pandemic Horde
    #199 - 2014-11-14 09:12:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalron
    I dont think you can have everything you want in a single system without some big changes to this.

    Currently its PVP heaven, only 4 stations, limited undocks and bubbes allowed.

    It's not going to become a major trade hub/place to visit because you can only find it if you find it by chance. And then when your trying to get into it your 90% likely to get ganked by people swarming round any hisec entrances. Soon as you undock your most likely to get killed with all the new shiny stuff you bought.

    As it stands your likely to have 1-4 power blocs controlling the stations building the stuff they want and staging out to run pvp to any exits that exit. (Maybe thats what you want). No major manufacturers will be moving stuff in because the market is limited. Everything will stay in Jita as it always has.

    Idea :

    A central hub Station in Thera (Called HUB), remove Jita 4/4 and replace it with a stargate that links directly to inside the hub. From the hub you can be instantly transported including ships to any of the other 4 stations in Thera and launch out to explore W-Space. (oh and remove bubbles in a 100km radius around the stations so you can at least undock.. there would still be lots of ganking).

    This makes it a borderland town. Safe to go into but cross out into the lawless space of wormholes and your on your own.

    1). This gives people a way in that's central and SAFE, builders and manufacturers can get their stuff in to sell and will effectively move Jita into Thera.
    2). Gives people a way to explore out to the W-space area from this staging base.
    3). Gives people a way to find Thera easily but also they can still stumble across it. People could find new trade routes taking stuff in through wormholes from null and out through the hub.
    4). Anyone wanting to go out through the multitudes of wormholes into exiting space is still available to be shot down.
    Fred Kyong
    Grollwerk
    #200 - 2014-11-14 09:22:00 UTC
    Dalron wrote:
    I dont think you can have everything you want in a single system without some big changes to this.

    Currently its PVP heaven, only 4 stations, limited undocks and bubbes allowed.

    It's not going to become a major trade hub/place to visit because you can only find it if you find it by chance. And then when your trying to get into it your 90% likely to get ganked by people swarming round any hisec entrances. Soon as you undock your most likely to get killed with all the new shiny stuff you bought.

    As it stands your likely to have 1-4 power blocs controlling the stations building the stuff they want and staging out to run pvp to any exits that exit. (Maybe thats what you want). No major manufacturers will be moving stuff in because the market is limited. Everything will stay in Jita as it always has.

    Idea :

    A central hub Station in Thera (Called HUB), remove Jita 4/4 and replace it with a stargate that links directly to inside the hub. From the hub you can be instantly transported including ships to any of the other 4 stations in Thera and launch out to explore W-Space. (oh and remove bubbles in a 100km radius around the stations so you can at least undock.. there would still be lots of ganking).

    This makes it a borderland town. Safe to go into but cross out into the lawless space of wormholes and your on your own.

    1). This gives people a way in that's central and SAFE, builders and manufacturers can get their stuff in to sell and will effectively move Jita into Thera.
    2). Gives people a way to explore out to the W-space area from this staging base.
    3). Gives people a way to find Thera easily but also they can still stumble across it. People could find new trade routes taking stuff in through wormholes from null and out through the hub.
    4). Anyone wanting to go out through the multitudes of wormholes into exiting space is still available to be shot down.



    Anchored warp disruption bubbles will not be usable within Thera