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Dev blog: Thera and the Shattered Wormholes

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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#141 - 2014-11-13 21:53:11 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
fyi there are ships that allow you to ignore bubbles

perhaps if you are so worried about the bubble bogey man you should select one of these

It doesn't matter. I know a thing or two about this. It's worse than a gate camp because at least there they don't know where you're going to spawn around the gate. Even so, when a major alliance camps a gate having a cloaky nullified T3 or interceptor doesn't matter. They sensor boost the hell out of the tacklers, fill the 20km around the gate with drones and cans, have a sniper fleet around the perimeter, and bring the DPS to vaporize a titan on a shuttle. It's very difficult to get away in those situations... not impossible, but very difficult. A station camp is different. In addition to the above, they bring an absolute wall of bumper ships. The instant out warp point trick wouldn't work even if you could manage to set a bookmark. You undock in one place. They know exactly where your ship will be. While this can be much more effectively done with far fewer ships than the gate camp I described, expect far more ships. More sensor boosting, more debris, more drones, more DPS, more bumpers, and more science. For the average pod seeing the super-pro groups in EvE work is extremely rare if they've ever seen it at all. Their EvE game is so tight it holds water. When you see them clash it's pretty amazing... but you don't want to be in that system. You wouldn't survive a minute.

this is a pretty impressive vignette but really the only people who can pull this sort of thing off all the time is us

everyone else has insufficient people to manage a 24/7 hellcamp

and whoops the system is inside a wormhole, disallowing infinite backup

heck if the stations themselves lack cloning then when you pop a nerd, he is hurtling back to k-space

realistically you are looking at a few dudes camping the system, then them taffing off when they get bored or have to sleep

you having a vignette built up in your mind about how things are based on stories you heard once does not give ccp a reason to make thera wormhole lowsec
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#142 - 2014-11-13 22:09:32 UTC
really, these sorts of posts highlight a disturbing trend on the eve-o forums

posters who harbor personal feelings about a topic, typically derived from misinformation and simple lack of domain knowledge of the topics of which they speak, attempt to dilute or otherwise willfully degrade a new feature by crafting a vignette which, while might be true or possibe in its ludicrous framing, simply does not reflect reality

trying to pre-compensate for these vignettes is the height of folly and is a hallmark of poor decision making and poor critical thinking skills
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#143 - 2014-11-13 22:11:23 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
fyi there are ships that allow you to ignore bubbles

perhaps if you are so worried about the bubble bogey man you should select one of these

It doesn't matter. I know a thing or two about this. It's worse than a gate camp because at least there they don't know where you're going to spawn around the gate. Even so, when a major alliance camps a gate having a cloaky nullified T3 or interceptor doesn't matter. They sensor boost the hell out of the tacklers, fill the 20km around the gate with drones and cans, have a sniper fleet around the perimeter, and bring the DPS to vaporize a titan on a shuttle. It's very difficult to get away in those situations... not impossible, but very difficult. A station camp is different. In addition to the above, they bring an absolute wall of bumper ships. The instant out warp point trick wouldn't work even if you could manage to set a bookmark. You undock in one place. They know exactly where your ship will be. While this can be much more effectively done with far fewer ships than the gate camp I described, expect far more ships. More sensor boosting, more debris, more drones, more DPS, more bumpers, and more science. For the average pod seeing the super-pro groups in EvE work is extremely rare if they've ever seen it at all. Their EvE game is so tight it holds water. When you see them clash it's pretty amazing... but you don't want to be in that system. You wouldn't survive a minute.

this is a pretty impressive vignette but really the only people who can pull this sort of thing off all the time is us

everyone else has insufficient people to manage a 24/7 hellcamp

and whoops the system is inside a wormhole, disallowing infinite backup

heck if the stations themselves lack cloning then when you pop a nerd, he is hurtling back to k-space

realistically you are looking at a few dudes camping the system, then them taffing off when they get bored or have to sleep

you having a vignette built up in your mind about how things are based on stories you heard once does not give ccp a reason to make thera wormhole lowsec

Look, I have a lot of respect for what you guys can pull off... and I think you are selling yourself short when you imply that this would be difficult to pull off all on your own for 4 stations. ...but it's a bit conceited to think you stand alone in this capability. You guys can do this across regions, but when the tip of the spear is focused on 4 stations in one system... when everyone has jump clones installed, I think backup will be effectively unlimited. Hell, if you guys pulled off holding all 4 stations each pilot could have 4 clones in the system (a x5 force multiplier). There are many super-pro corps, some unaffiliated with alliances, that could do this with a single station as well. If CCP made it lowsec it still wouldn't make a lick of difference, so I'm not suggesting that. That's what I'm trying to say. They need a LOT of stations in Thera if there's to be even a CHANCE of life out there for the unaffiliated or small corps. You may have the most powerful alliance in nullsec, but when it comes to who can pull together a super tight impenetrable fleet to camp a single station 23/7 you most certainly do not stand alone.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2014-11-13 22:14:25 UTC
CCP, please put ice in the frigate holes and please provide an ice-mining destroyer. And don't forget a tiny compression deployable.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#145 - 2014-11-13 22:16:40 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
sereneabt wrote:
We from CODE are looking forward to this System. As your loyal servants we take it upon ourselves to police this new frontier. You should secure your permit in advance if you wish to enjoy our protection.


As long as you understand that there is no CONCORD to protect you in w-space, you'll be just fine. Make sure you understand how to defend yourself from targets that shoot back, and you will also want to acquaint yourselves with the mechanics of warp disruption bubbles. Remember that the folks who already live in w-space are used to shooting at things that shoot back, and they are not averse to shooting first.

TL;DR:

  • No CONCORD to protect you
  • Targets will shoot you first
  • Targets will prefer to shoot you rather than pay a permit fee (see first two points)
  • Warp disruption fields


GL, HF!


CODE. is faking. They don't dare show their faces where there is no mechanics exploit and/or the targets can shoot back. Remember the alliance tournament?

No need for further comment. His CEO is already hitting him over the head for posting here. Those retards are high sec only and they good and well know it.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#146 - 2014-11-13 22:19:59 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
fyi there are ships that allow you to ignore bubbles

perhaps if you are so worried about the bubble bogey man you should select one of these

It doesn't matter. I know a thing or two about this. It's worse than a gate camp because at least there they don't know where you're going to spawn around the gate. Even so, when a major alliance camps a gate having a cloaky nullified T3 or interceptor doesn't matter. They sensor boost the hell out of the tacklers, fill the 20km around the gate with drones and cans, have a sniper fleet around the perimeter, and bring the DPS to vaporize a titan on a shuttle. It's very difficult to get away in those situations... not impossible, but very difficult. A station camp is different. In addition to the above, they bring an absolute wall of bumper ships. The instant out warp point trick wouldn't work even if you could manage to set a bookmark. You undock in one place. They know exactly where your ship will be. While this can be much more effectively done with far fewer ships than the gate camp I described, expect far more ships. More sensor boosting, more debris, more drones, more DPS, more bumpers, and more science. For the average pod seeing the super-pro groups in EvE work is extremely rare if they've ever seen it at all. Their EvE game is so tight it holds water. When you see them clash it's pretty amazing... but you don't want to be in that system. You wouldn't survive a minute.

this is a pretty impressive vignette but really the only people who can pull this sort of thing off all the time is us

everyone else has insufficient people to manage a 24/7 hellcamp

and whoops the system is inside a wormhole, disallowing infinite backup

heck if the stations themselves lack cloning then when you pop a nerd, he is hurtling back to k-space

realistically you are looking at a few dudes camping the system, then them taffing off when they get bored or have to sleep

you having a vignette built up in your mind about how things are based on stories you heard once does not give ccp a reason to make thera wormhole lowsec

Look, I have a lot of respect for what you guys can pull off... and I think you are selling yourself short when you imply that this would be difficult to pull off all on your own for 4 stations. ...but it's a bit conceited to think you stand alone in this capability. You guys can do this across regions, but when the tip of the spear is focused on 4 stations in one system... when everyone has jump clones installed, I think backup will be effectively unlimited. Hell, if you guys pulled off holding all 4 stations each pilot could have 4 clones in the system (a x5 force multiplier). There are many super-pro corps, some unaffiliated with alliances, that could do this with a single station as well. If CCP made it lowsec it still wouldn't make a lick of difference, so I'm not suggesting that. That's what I'm trying to say. They need a LOT of stations in Thera if there's to be even a CHANCE of life out there for the unaffiliated or small corps. You may have the most powerful alliance in nullsec, but when it comes to who can pull together a super tight impenetrable fleet to camp a single station 23/7 you most certainly do not stand alone.

there you go with that vignette again

well here let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say it is possible and we'll even go so far as to assume that any given group has a RIGHT to be in thera (which they obviously don't — no one has the explicit right to do anything with thera)

the question then becomes

wwwwwhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyy

what purpose is there to own thera

it has no moon goo, you can't claim sov, pve content is transient by its wormhole nature, there's no PI, it isn't a security risk (intentionally exhausting any thera holes leading into your space is far more effort efficient than controlling the stations,) and you can't even flip the stations and deadzone the folks inside

the best you can do is farm killmails off the station and while that is fun, it does not necessitate a protracted hellcamp of the sort that simply denies access to all comers, forever and ever
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#147 - 2014-11-13 22:23:18 UTC
why no shield bonuses for the shield frigs?

Also how will CCP prevent goons or some huge alliance from just crowding the system and making it inaccessible/unusable to any other player?
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#148 - 2014-11-13 22:26:52 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
why no shield bonuses for the shield frigs?

Also how will CCP prevent goons or some huge alliance from just crowding the system and making it inaccessible/unusable to any other player?

ccp doesn't, you do

with guns

wormholes are 0.0

if this logic even held remotely true then why haven't we invaded all of normal wormhole space and choked it off to everyone forever
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#149 - 2014-11-13 22:30:39 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
fyi there are ships that allow you to ignore bubbles

perhaps if you are so worried about the bubble bogey man you should select one of these

It doesn't matter. I know a thing or two about this. It's worse than a gate camp because at least there they don't know where you're going to spawn around the gate. Even so, when a major alliance camps a gate having a cloaky nullified T3 or interceptor doesn't matter. They sensor boost the hell out of the tacklers, fill the 20km around the gate with drones and cans, have a sniper fleet around the perimeter, and bring the DPS to vaporize a titan on a shuttle. It's very difficult to get away in those situations... not impossible, but very difficult. A station camp is different. In addition to the above, they bring an absolute wall of bumper ships. The instant out warp point trick wouldn't work even if you could manage to set a bookmark. You undock in one place. They know exactly where your ship will be. While this can be much more effectively done with far fewer ships than the gate camp I described, expect far more ships. More sensor boosting, more debris, more drones, more DPS, more bumpers, and more science. For the average pod seeing the super-pro groups in EvE work is extremely rare if they've ever seen it at all. Their EvE game is so tight it holds water. When you see them clash it's pretty amazing... but you don't want to be in that system. You wouldn't survive a minute.

this is a pretty impressive vignette but really the only people who can pull this sort of thing off all the time is us

everyone else has insufficient people to manage a 24/7 hellcamp

and whoops the system is inside a wormhole, disallowing infinite backup

heck if the stations themselves lack cloning then when you pop a nerd, he is hurtling back to k-space

realistically you are looking at a few dudes camping the system, then them taffing off when they get bored or have to sleep

you having a vignette built up in your mind about how things are based on stories you heard once does not give ccp a reason to make thera wormhole lowsec

Promiscuous Female wrote:
really, these sorts of posts highlight a disturbing trend on the eve-o forums

posters who harbor personal feelings about a topic, typically derived from misinformation and simple lack of domain knowledge of the topics of which they speak, attempt to dilute or otherwise willfully degrade a new feature by crafting a vignette which, while might be true or possibe in its ludicrous framing, simply does not reflect reality

trying to pre-compensate for these vignettes is the height of folly and is a hallmark of poor decision making and poor critical thinking skills

Before you embarrass yourself more, read the dev blog:
Quote:
The four stations in Thera will each have a full set of services, including cloning, office slots, and manufacturing. You will be able to set these stations as your medical clone location, and install Jump Clones if you wish.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#150 - 2014-11-13 22:34:59 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
fyi there are ships that allow you to ignore bubbles

perhaps if you are so worried about the bubble bogey man you should select one of these

It doesn't matter. I know a thing or two about this. It's worse than a gate camp because at least there they don't know where you're going to spawn around the gate. Even so, when a major alliance camps a gate having a cloaky nullified T3 or interceptor doesn't matter. They sensor boost the hell out of the tacklers, fill the 20km around the gate with drones and cans, have a sniper fleet around the perimeter, and bring the DPS to vaporize a titan on a shuttle. It's very difficult to get away in those situations... not impossible, but very difficult. A station camp is different. In addition to the above, they bring an absolute wall of bumper ships. The instant out warp point trick wouldn't work even if you could manage to set a bookmark. You undock in one place. They know exactly where your ship will be. While this can be much more effectively done with far fewer ships than the gate camp I described, expect far more ships. More sensor boosting, more debris, more drones, more DPS, more bumpers, and more science. For the average pod seeing the super-pro groups in EvE work is extremely rare if they've ever seen it at all. Their EvE game is so tight it holds water. When you see them clash it's pretty amazing... but you don't want to be in that system. You wouldn't survive a minute.

this is a pretty impressive vignette but really the only people who can pull this sort of thing off all the time is us

everyone else has insufficient people to manage a 24/7 hellcamp

and whoops the system is inside a wormhole, disallowing infinite backup

heck if the stations themselves lack cloning then when you pop a nerd, he is hurtling back to k-space

realistically you are looking at a few dudes camping the system, then them taffing off when they get bored or have to sleep

you having a vignette built up in your mind about how things are based on stories you heard once does not give ccp a reason to make thera wormhole lowsec

Look, I have a lot of respect for what you guys can pull off... and I think you are selling yourself short when you imply that this would be difficult to pull off all on your own for 4 stations. ...but it's a bit conceited to think you stand alone in this capability. You guys can do this across regions, but when the tip of the spear is focused on 4 stations in one system... when everyone has jump clones installed, I think backup will be effectively unlimited. Hell, if you guys pulled off holding all 4 stations each pilot could have 4 clones in the system (a x5 force multiplier). There are many super-pro corps, some unaffiliated with alliances, that could do this with a single station as well. If CCP made it lowsec it still wouldn't make a lick of difference, so I'm not suggesting that. That's what I'm trying to say. They need a LOT of stations in Thera if there's to be even a CHANCE of life out there for the unaffiliated or small corps. You may have the most powerful alliance in nullsec, but when it comes to who can pull together a super tight impenetrable fleet to camp a single station 23/7 you most certainly do not stand alone.

there you go with that vignette again

well here let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say it is possible and we'll even go so far as to assume that any given group has a RIGHT to be in thera (which they obviously don't — no one has the explicit right to do anything with thera)

the question then becomes

wwwwwhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyy

what purpose is there to own thera

it has no moon goo, you can't claim sov, pve content is transient by its wormhole nature, there's no PI, it isn't a security risk (intentionally exhausting any thera holes leading into your space is far more effort efficient than controlling the stations,) and you can't even flip the stations and deadzone the folks inside

the best you can do is farm killmails off the station and while that is fun, it does not necessitate a protracted hellcamp of the sort that simply denies access to all comers, forever and ever

To live in a station with services in a wormhole system alone is super appealing to pirates. To live in an INVULNERABLE station and farm sleepers is appealing to others. Pirates are not PvPers exactly (many anyway), so for PvP you'll have the most diverse set of targets across the whole of EvE every day. CODE would have all the lulz they could ask for. I think there will even be some new professions/play styles to come out of this. Not everyone has your motivations for playing EvE. I personally don't give a snip about sov or goo or mining or flipping stations. I still have a full plate. Ninja looters would have a field day there, if they could ever undock. If anyone could. There's a huge list of players w/ different objectives who don't care at all about anything you've listed. There's plenty of draw to the concept of Thera. I just don't see any access. I agree nobody has the RIGHT to be anywhere or do anything. I just don't see most players having a CHANCE with only 4 stations.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#151 - 2014-11-13 22:35:46 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

Before you embarrass yourself more, read the dev blog:
Quote:
The four stations in Thera will each have a full set of services, including cloning, office slots, and manufacturing. You will be able to set these stations as your medical clone location, and install Jump Clones if you wish.

ah yes the devblog canceling out a single line in my explanation that had nothing to do with the point

especially when i couched the line in question to implicitly admit that i didn't know if it was true or not

truly i have suffered the greatest of embarrassments
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#152 - 2014-11-13 22:37:47 UTC
i see the "reveal the smallest flaw of the statement in question, no matter how irrelevant it is to the main point, and wedge a crowbar into it as a sad facsimile of onanism" tactic is in full force here
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#153 - 2014-11-13 22:40:45 UTC
Ironically the only motivation I see for a power bloc to come in and camp this system is to upset the people posting about how it will happen.

There was a post earlier with an initial scan showing what seems a good approximation of 15 active connections at a given time. 9 of those appear to be static connections. That's a minimum of 9 camps you have to set up to lock down the system and "own" it without considering the tons of k162's that will open up into you constantly that you have to collapse. For those who have never done a wormhole eviction, I assure you doing this with even 1 connection is enough of a ***** as it is. Then add in the fact you can set medical clones and jump clones there and holding this system as your own gets pretty close to impossible. Even if you somehow did, you'd hate yourself for choosing to do it.

The 342 AU distance was given to illustrate the distance between two stations, not the entire system, so it's likely bigger. You might be able to find a pocket and hide from probes there to PVE, but I doubt there will be a shortage of people looking for you.

All in all, this place will be pretty sandboxy. There are tons of opportunities for how to hunt, live, and die stupidly.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#154 - 2014-11-13 22:42:08 UTC
Gogela wrote:

To live in a station with services in a wormhole system alone is super appealing to pirates. To live in an INVULNERABLE station and farm sleepers is appealing to others. Pirates are not PvPers exactly (many anyway), so for PvP you'll have the most diverse set of targets across the whole of EvE every day. CODE would have all the lulz they could ask for. I think there will even be some new professions/play styles to come out of this. Not everyone has your motivations for playing EvE. I personally don't give a snip about sov or goo or mining or flipping stations. I still have a full plate. Ninja looters would have a field day there, if they could ever undock. If anyone could. There's a huge list of players w/ different objectives who don't care at all about anything you've listed. There's plenty of draw to the concept of Thera. I just don't see any access. I agree nobody has the RIGHT to be anywhere or do anything. I just don't see most players having a CHANCE with only 4 stations.

i never said there was no draw to thera, period

i said there was no draw for the organizations that have the organizational power, the numbers, and the will to do what you're suggesting

and, i'm also saying that if a station in a 0.0 system gets camped, good on them — they are using their pvp prowess to poop in the cheerios of others, a core 0.0 game mechanic
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#155 - 2014-11-13 22:48:28 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gogela wrote:

To live in a station with services in a wormhole system alone is super appealing to pirates. To live in an INVULNERABLE station and farm sleepers is appealing to others. Pirates are not PvPers exactly (many anyway), so for PvP you'll have the most diverse set of targets across the whole of EvE every day. CODE would have all the lulz they could ask for. I think there will even be some new professions/play styles to come out of this. Not everyone has your motivations for playing EvE. I personally don't give a snip about sov or goo or mining or flipping stations. I still have a full plate. Ninja looters would have a field day there, if they could ever undock. If anyone could. There's a huge list of players w/ different objectives who don't care at all about anything you've listed. There's plenty of draw to the concept of Thera. I just don't see any access. I agree nobody has the RIGHT to be anywhere or do anything. I just don't see most players having a CHANCE with only 4 stations.

i never said there was no draw to thera, period

i said there was no draw for the organizations that have the organizational power, the numbers, and the will to do what you're suggesting

and, i'm also saying that if a station in a 0.0 system gets camped, good on them — they are using their pvp prowess to poop in the cheerios of others, a core 0.0 game mechanic

...* Do you even know who you've joined? Goons exist to f*** up the game. ...and they aren't alone. Alliances might do it just out of boredom. They'll do it for grief and lulz. In the absence of alliances there are plenty of CORPS that could do it as well. I see why you might have trouble thinking outside the numbers... but it's not strictly about numbers. You are reaching.

"i said there was no draw for the organizations that have the organizational power, the numbers, and the will to do what you're suggesting"

▲ wrong on each count.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#156 - 2014-11-13 22:52:47 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gogela wrote:

To live in a station with services in a wormhole system alone is super appealing to pirates. To live in an INVULNERABLE station and farm sleepers is appealing to others. Pirates are not PvPers exactly (many anyway), so for PvP you'll have the most diverse set of targets across the whole of EvE every day. CODE would have all the lulz they could ask for. I think there will even be some new professions/play styles to come out of this. Not everyone has your motivations for playing EvE. I personally don't give a snip about sov or goo or mining or flipping stations. I still have a full plate. Ninja looters would have a field day there, if they could ever undock. If anyone could. There's a huge list of players w/ different objectives who don't care at all about anything you've listed. There's plenty of draw to the concept of Thera. I just don't see any access. I agree nobody has the RIGHT to be anywhere or do anything. I just don't see most players having a CHANCE with only 4 stations.

i never said there was no draw to thera, period

i said there was no draw for the organizations that have the organizational power, the numbers, and the will to do what you're suggesting

and, i'm also saying that if a station in a 0.0 system gets camped, good on them — they are using their pvp prowess to poop in the cheerios of others, a core 0.0 game mechanic

...* Do you even know who you've joined? Goons exist to f*** up the game. ...and they aren't alone. Alliances might do it just out of boredom. They'll do it for grief and lulz. In the absence of alliances there are plenty of CORPS that could do it as well. I see why you might have trouble thinking outside the numbers... but it's not strictly about numbers. You are reaching.

"i said there was no draw for the organizations that have the organizational power, the numbers, and the will to do what you're suggesting"

▲ wrong on each count.

you're worried about 24/7 hellcamps that will bar access to the system forever, not pissant corps with no organizational or financial power

if you can't dodge or wait out the odd station camp then what the taff are you doing in null security space
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#157 - 2014-11-13 23:00:47 UTC
but by all means please continue to tell me about my organization and its motives and modus operandi
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#158 - 2014-11-13 23:02:50 UTC
I'd like to see a new class of WH space which allows cap and supercap fleets to pass through several times before collapsing. Ofc, these new WH systems should not have any moons, so that permanently stationing a fleet in the WH system would be extremely problematic.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#159 - 2014-11-13 23:06:14 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gogela wrote:

To live in a station with services in a wormhole system alone is super appealing to pirates. To live in an INVULNERABLE station and farm sleepers is appealing to others. Pirates are not PvPers exactly (many anyway), so for PvP you'll have the most diverse set of targets across the whole of EvE every day. CODE would have all the lulz they could ask for. I think there will even be some new professions/play styles to come out of this. Not everyone has your motivations for playing EvE. I personally don't give a snip about sov or goo or mining or flipping stations. I still have a full plate. Ninja looters would have a field day there, if they could ever undock. If anyone could. There's a huge list of players w/ different objectives who don't care at all about anything you've listed. There's plenty of draw to the concept of Thera. I just don't see any access. I agree nobody has the RIGHT to be anywhere or do anything. I just don't see most players having a CHANCE with only 4 stations.

i never said there was no draw to thera, period

i said there was no draw for the organizations that have the organizational power, the numbers, and the will to do what you're suggesting

and, i'm also saying that if a station in a 0.0 system gets camped, good on them — they are using their pvp prowess to poop in the cheerios of others, a core 0.0 game mechanic

...* Do you even know who you've joined? Goons exist to f*** up the game. ...and they aren't alone. Alliances might do it just out of boredom. They'll do it for grief and lulz. In the absence of alliances there are plenty of CORPS that could do it as well. I see why you might have trouble thinking outside the numbers... but it's not strictly about numbers. You are reaching.

"i said there was no draw for the organizations that have the organizational power, the numbers, and the will to do what you're suggesting"

▲ wrong on each count.

you're worried about 24/7 hellcamps that will bar access to the system forever, not pissant corps with no organizational or financial power

if you can't dodge or wait out the odd station camp then what the taff are you doing in null security space


Lets say NO alliance is bored or would hell camp 4 stations. There's no way that's the case, but for fun let's just say it is. There are plenty of corps that would. In the absence of another, some organization will step up to hell camp a station because 1) Thera will be unique in all of EvE, 2) there are only 4 stations, 3) it will p*** pods off, 4) they can, 5) they are bored. ...any one of which stands alone. Normal station camps can be avoided. Pro station camps cannot, and make undocking impossible. There are too many pros focused on too few stations. These will be the only 4 stations of their kind in the entire game. These aren't going to be the "odd stations camps"... they are going to be the pro station camps. In the vacuum of one power another will take it's place. I have insta outs all over fountain. I can live there. NPC null is hard but its doable. It's not about locking down the system. If you lock down the stations the foundation of the draw to Thera crumbles. That's all you have to do. There are tons of groups that could do it. It may be 4 unrelated corps that join a temp non-aggression pact... but these stations are getting locked down one way or another. If you don't do it someone else will: because it can be done it will be done. We can wait and see of course... but I have a feeling my concerns are going to be immediately validated.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Steven Hackett
Overload This
#160 - 2014-11-13 23:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Steven Hackett
Promiscuous Female wrote:

you're... complaining about new wormhole content

idgi

they are even adding ice belts for y'all to get connected to your homes, how could you not be over the moon about these changes

So here is the thing..

More systems = more empty space unless they also add a few thousand players to live in w-space..
The ice is irrelevant since it's still more convenient and more time effective to ship it in from highsec. (Why save pennies/hour mining ice, when you can make millions/hour and buy the ice)

All this change does is to add more wasteland and more irrelevant mechanics to w-space, like frig holes..

CCP is changing clone-costs because it's too expensive to fly cheap ships in expensive clones? Well, what makes them think I wan't to fly a frigat in my slave clone then? I can't change my clone in w-space.. If 20-30 mill is the breakingpoint for Nullsec, then it's a safe bet we don't want to risk billions in clones.

So what does this expansion actually add to w-space?

- More signatures and irrelevant wormholes to scan and scout
- Less population density
- Ice, which is worthless compared to other pve activities
- Puts sleeper sites in K-space and in Thera, a system so irellevant to w-space way of life that it might as well be a normal nullsec.
- Makes a "midpoint" between NS and W-space where people can get the bonus of living in w-space without the added risk of loosing all your stuff..

Honestly, I don't see how any w-space pilot can be happy about this? Maybe except for the very low-class wormholes where icemining might actualy be good isk?

Adding new space to EVE isn't a small thing, and Fozzie and co. choose to make the space as irellevant as humanly possible, just like most of their former w-space changes?

Note. There is some stuff I like..
I do actualy like that they are adding ice, if nothing else, then it's an option for the solo player who can't do anything else..
I also don't mind the idea of making moon-less systems..

But the way they are doing it is counterproductive..
Add the ice as a roaming anomaly. Remove the moons from unocopied systems instead og feeding the biggest issue in w-space, player density.

Fozzie and co. had some good ideas (some even taken from the w-space feedback threads), but their implementation and design around it is, as with most other changes they have made, terrible and shows that while they might listen and read, they don't understand or have the insight needed.

If anyone think it's a good idea to add more(irellevant) space to w-space, where empty systems is the biggest issue, they rly need a sanity check.. Actualy, I think sanity check is what CCP is missing with this new release cycle..

They added the frig WH-connectors last patch and we hated them. Now they are making the systems after the community told them the cpnnectors were useless without the actual systems.. Feedback that they got before they launched the patch in the first place.. (Note: I still havn't seen them remove the useless WH-connectors yet.)

CCP and especialy Fozzie needs to slow down and get a sanity check. Gather feedback and don't release half-assed "features" because they thought it would be cool to "see what the players are doing"... There is a different word for that type of gamedesign, but saying it is prob. against the rules ;)