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Why I don't go to lowsec.

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Paranoid Loyd
#221 - 2014-11-12 23:52:00 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment.

Sex

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#222 - 2014-11-12 23:55:19 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment.

Sex



Not everyone enjoys sex. It's true.

Call me Joe.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#223 - 2014-11-12 23:55:59 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment.

Sex


Eunuchs
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#224 - 2014-11-12 23:58:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it.


That is not possible, nor is it goal worthy. Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment.


When you have a game whose popularity is entirely due to catering to a specific niche, throwing away that niche for "everyone" is a good way to make sure that no one enjoys it.

I for one question why his enjoyment of the game is so dependent on the removal of everything the game design actually stands for. Why not just play a different game?


Popularity of Eve is not due to awoxxing/ganking/scamming, etc.... Some popularity is due to nullsec, much popularity is due to highsec PvE, player driven markets, etc.... The actual highsec griefer population is pretty low, a few tens of people.

That I enjoy many parts of the game keeps me playing, as I advocate changing those I feel are detrimental to the game.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#225 - 2014-11-13 00:09:38 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
much popularity is due to highsec PvE


Citation needed.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2014-11-13 00:10:32 UTC
i do not find many gatecamps in lowsec... fleets often rally on a gate or had l on it buft it is not a camp just a rally point
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2014-11-13 00:11:06 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it.


That is not possible, nor is it goal worthy. Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment.


When you have a game whose popularity is entirely due to catering to a specific niche, throwing away that niche for "everyone" is a good way to make sure that no one enjoys it.

I for one question why his enjoyment of the game is so dependent on the removal of everything the game design actually stands for. Why not just play a different game?


Popularity of Eve is not due to awoxxing/ganking/scamming, etc.... Some popularity is due to nullsec, much popularity is due to highsec PvE, player driven markets, etc.... The actual highsec griefer population is pretty low, a few tens of people.

That I enjoy many parts of the game keeps me playing, as I advocate changing those I feel are detrimental to the game.


It is inherently dishonest to present your likes as being mutually beneficial and your dislikes as being detrimental to the whole. To me it reveals more of your character than any discussion about balancing game mechanics.

It amuses me that you choose to ignore your obvious clear fallacy while quoting it yourself.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#228 - 2014-11-13 00:11:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
much popularity is due to highsec PvE


Citation needed.


Estimate for me what % of the playerbase is highsec "carebears"

40%?

50?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#229 - 2014-11-13 00:12:05 UTC
And yes, I'm serious about the citation thing.

This game has pretty much the worst PvE content of any contemporary MMO. In highsec especially, it barely justifies it's place on the server.

So I feel quite confident in telling you that this game has not survived for more than a decade on the backs of it's two most boring aspects.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#230 - 2014-11-13 00:12:46 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it.


That is not possible, nor is it goal worthy. Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment.


When you have a game whose popularity is entirely due to catering to a specific niche, throwing away that niche for "everyone" is a good way to make sure that no one enjoys it.

I for one question why his enjoyment of the game is so dependent on the removal of everything the game design actually stands for. Why not just play a different game?


Popularity of Eve is not due to awoxxing/ganking/scamming, etc.... Some popularity is due to nullsec, much popularity is due to highsec PvE, player driven markets, etc.... The actual highsec griefer population is pretty low, a few tens of people.

That I enjoy many parts of the game keeps me playing, as I advocate changing those I feel are detrimental to the game.


It is inherently dishonest to present your likes as being mutually beneficial and your dislikes as being detrimental to the whole. To me it reveals more of your character than any discussion about balancing game mechanics.

It amuses me that you choose to ignore your obvious clear fallacy while quoting it yourself.


Not true, I was responding to the question of why I keep playing. The vast majority of the people living in highsec would like it to be safer. That's not Veers - that's reality.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#231 - 2014-11-13 00:12:59 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
much popularity is due to highsec PvE


Citation needed.


Estimate for me what % of the playerbase is highsec "carebears"

40%?

50?


15% or less. More than half of highsec is alts.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#232 - 2014-11-13 00:15:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
much popularity is due to highsec PvE


Citation needed.


Estimate for me what % of the playerbase is highsec "carebears"

40%?

50?


15% or less. More than half of highsec is alts.


Isboxed alts of the same people. Of human people, especially consider the highsec PvE players usually have 1 account, the majority are the miner/mission runner carebears you guys so detest. And they definitely are not to attracted to Eve for ganking/awoxxing/scamming/wardeccs/theft
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2014-11-13 00:25:54 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


Not true, I was responding to the question of why I keep playing. The vast majority of the people living in highsec would like it to be safer. That's not Veers - that's reality.



Again you ignored your fallacy. Now you present another. The vast majority of high sec play the game their way and never voice an opinion on anything. For you to claim the vast majority want greater safety, is again another lie. You have no proof, no evidence beyond anecdotal and no way of gaining either.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#234 - 2014-11-13 00:27:23 UTC
So many unverified assumptions.

First that most PvE players have but one account. Second that they are in any way a majority among players. Third that every one of them is as grotesquely risk averse as you are.

Here's a hint. If your version of this was the truth, this game would have died a long, long time ago.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#235 - 2014-11-13 00:29:38 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Not true, I was responding to the question of why I keep playing. The vast majority of the people living in highsec would like it to be safer. That's not Veers - that's reality.



Again you ignored your fallacy. Now you present another. The vast majority of high sec play the game their way and never voice an opinion on anything. For you to claim the vast majority want greater safety, is again another lie. You have no proof, no evidence beyond anecdotal and no way of gaining either.


And yet their entire playstyle is devoted to mining and mission running with minimal interaction with others. And when they do get ganked they complain profusely. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out what they think. But do keep babbling about fallacies, it is so amusing....your next "fallacy" should be opposing the statement that most people in America feel that armed robbery and murder should be illegal.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#236 - 2014-11-13 00:31:16 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So many unverified assumptions.

First that most PvE players have but one account. Second that they are in any way a majority among players. Third that every one of them is as grotesquely risk averse as you are.

Here's a hint. If your version of this was the truth, this game would have died a long, long time ago.


Roll

Because the game would absolutely collapse if highsec was for PvE, and low/null was for PvP. I mean without suicide ganking/awoxxing/wardeccs/scamming/theft Eve would absolute collapse. Shocked
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2014-11-13 00:31:54 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
much popularity is due to highsec PvE


Citation needed.


Estimate for me what % of the playerbase is highsec "carebears"

40%?

50?


15% or less. More than half of highsec is alts.


Isboxed alts of the same people. Of human people, especially consider the highsec PvE players usually have 1 account, the majority are the miner/mission runner carebears you guys so detest. And they definitely are not to attracted to Eve for ganking/awoxxing/scamming/wardeccs/theft


Again with inaccurate supposition. Thanks for including my high sec alts in your carebear statistics. Also amusing that mentally someone says alts and you come out with isoboxer.
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#238 - 2014-11-13 00:34:11 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Isboxed alts of the same people. Of human people, especially consider the highsec PvE players usually have 1 account, the majority are the miner/mission runner carebears you guys so detest. And they definitely are not to attracted to Eve for ganking/awoxxing/scamming/wardeccs/theft



You have no data to support this assertion. There aren't throngs of EVE players running to you to reveal how many alts they do or don't have. How could you possibly know how many people just have 1 alt? CCP have never released data which correlates number of people to one security space or another.


Your so-called highest concentration of pilots occurs in an area of the game that maximizes ISK, involves very little risk, and is accessible to players with low and high SP counts equally. It is not surprising that this is the case.

Animals will always converge in areas where food is available to them, and prefer areas with low risk and low barrier of entry. It doesn't mean we suddenly find ways to remove predators from the ecosystem entirely, which you are advocating.



You are paving the path for the multiboxed farmer to run your precious 1 account PVErs out of the game. The so-called criminals are the only natural predator keeping this catastrophic scenario at bay.


Call me Joe.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#239 - 2014-11-13 00:38:52 UTC
Jvpiter wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Isboxed alts of the same people. Of human people, especially consider the highsec PvE players usually have 1 account, the majority are the miner/mission runner carebears you guys so detest. And they definitely are not to attracted to Eve for ganking/awoxxing/scamming/wardeccs/theft



You have no data to support this assertion. There aren't throngs of EVE players running to you to reveal how many alts they do or don't have. How could you possibly know how many people just have 1 alt? CCP have never released data which correlates number of people to one security space or another.


Your so-called highest concentration of pilots occurs in an area of the game that maximizes ISK, involves very little risk, and is accessible to players with low and high SP counts equally. It is not surprising that this is the case.

Animals will always converge in areas where food is available to them, and prefer areas with low risk and low barrier of entry. It doesn't mean we suddenly find ways to remove predators from the ecosystem entirely, which you are advocating.



You are paving the path for the multiboxed farmer to run your precious 1 account PVErs out of the game. The so-called criminals are the only natural predator keeping this catastrophic scenario at bay.




hahahhahahhaha.......highsec "maximizes isk" - you must be kidding? Heard of wormholes? nullsec? fw?

Maybe highsec has a lot of people because eve players are looking to AVOID risk? Maybe that's what the playerbase ENJOYS? Seems like the game might want to cater to what people WANT?

Gankers are not helping with the multibox problem. If anything they kill the casual players, and let the boxers win. CCP should ban isbotter and restrict players to 1 account logged on....not buff suicide ganking.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#240 - 2014-11-13 00:39:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cancel Align NOW
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So many unverified assumptions.

First that most PvE players have but one account. Second that they are in any way a majority among players. Third that every one of them is as grotesquely risk averse as you are.

Here's a hint. If your version of this was the truth, this game would have died a long, long time ago.


Roll

Because the game would absolutely collapse if highsec was for PvE, and low/null was for PvP. I mean without suicide ganking/awoxxing/wardeccs/scamming/theft Eve would absolute collapse. Shocked


Here is CCP Falcon's reply to some one who recently suggested high sec was not safe enough:

CCP Falcon wrote:
"Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec.

There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness."


Here is CCP Falcon's view on what makes Eve Online Special

CCP Falcon wrote:
"I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.

Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.

Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.

That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas.

EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.

Sorry, but your scaremongering counter argument makes no sense to me and carries no weight :)"


Veers; World of Warcraft has an update out today. Blizzard support much of the game play modes you are suggesting for Eve. Perhaps that is where you will find more happiness.