Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Honestly, think of them as the "bad guy" wrestlers. The dudes you love to hate. There might be some decent peeps behind the eye-patch. They're playing a role that belongs in EvE. Real pirates preyed on those who couldn't fight back... and still do. So as much as I don't like the idiocy that is CODE., I don't really have a problem with gankers per se. Gankers do add content to the game, even if it's content some would rather avoid. And at its heart, EvE is about building and destroying. You know where on that line the gankers sit.

If a player or group crosses the line into harassment (see CODE. again), then they should get duly punished. Attacking or ransoming someone that's not armed IS piracy, it IS cowardly, but it CAN be profitable, and it's part of the game lore and mechanics. Working as intended, even if it is unfortunate for some.

--Gadget

This is incorrect, because the fee does not grant you protection. According to CODE itself they don't necessarily despise miners, but any form of AFK income activity. They will gank you, with a permit or not, if they believe you are AFK, if they see you using autopilot for hauling, or anything like that.

Of course paying protection to the Mob means they won't come back and demand more money for the same protection.

Same concept.

Isn't a protection racket essentially afk money making? They should gank themselves on that basis!

-Lives saved.-

, but either way it's all about sitting there and waiting.

Sweet, glad we had to waste a year explaining something everyone knows.

How about the other industries? Well, I've also worked as a long-ha-

We really don't need to know your life story to conclude this. Oh, by the way I'm back up to 2000 characters now.

Even stopping at a rest stop can have someone sneaking in and stealing your crap. The EVE equivalency is pirates and gate camps, which can cause loss of ship, freight, pod and/or extorted ISK. Once again, though, hauling freight is an important and required service in both EVE and reality. Boring as all get out, not at all glamorous, but someone has to do it.

Oh, I completely agree. Someone has to slow down those miners and help kill some mineral production at the source.

Oh, you meant freighters. How bearish of you.

Construction is naturally tied hand-in-hand with mining and hauling-

Glad you figured out 2+2=4.

The biggest difference between reality and EVE in this sense is that someone who specializes in production can often be doing something else at the same time, or not be online at all. It's still a 100% required function, as new players (or at least new characters) appear all the time, and old ones keep getting their stuff blown up and need new. Even if you get all your materials from recycling old product, someone still has to have the skill to make something new from it. Speaking of recycling, garbage collection, or salvaging, falls in line here, as well. Let's face it, a Noctis, or any ship fitted with salvagers or salvager drones, serves the role of a garbage truck.

Glad to see that you look down upon my profession of interstellar grave robbing.

But more on point, you should analyze the fact that you're completely glazing over the need for materials to be destroyed/removed.

Make a 15 post long thread on that topic.

Where to pirates and miner bodyguards come in? Well, pirates are pirates, really, and even that is an industry.

That was a riveting analysis. Wish the rest of your post could be anywhere near so concise.

-Snipped to save lives.-

Now why did I tell you all that, you may ask?

Yes, why?

Well, I tell you because no matter what you're doing, you're part of the cycle.

Gasp!

Even if you do nothing but run missions in hisec from the moment you start to the day the universe implodes, you're part of the cycle, because you buy things.

Redundant statement 1.

You buy ammo for your weapons and new ships.

2

You sell the things you find or reprocess them and put them back into the cycle that way.

3

If you join the game and decide to do nothing but kill miners, you're part of the cycle, creating the demand for the better protections that better stuff can offer and the people to use that stuff, and the very miners you kill are the next step in the chain of supply and demand, because it all starts exactly where it ends, and keeps going for eternity.

4, but more like 4,5,6,7,8,9 as you run on.

Going back to the first story I told about being ganked,

This is getting regressive.

after I thought about it and realized the cycle of industry, I honestly couldn't bring myself to be mad.

This monstrosity of a tl;dr says otherwise.

Getting attacked breaks up the monotony of an incredibly boring task, though one I take up willingly, and at least adds a bit of challenge to the game. To an extent I even agree with a bit of the philosophy of the gankers, specifically that bot-miners are a plague, though not so much those that might AFK, as honestly? I was 'AFK' in my load truck at the quarry. I was reading a book, listening to music, doing just about anything I could to avoid going to sleep while awaiting the time to go move rocks from A to B. It's dull, but essential, work. I don't appreciate the loss of resources for having my ships blown to scrap, but that's the price of admission.

Great.

I saw someone who'd gotten a bunch of ganking groups together and offered blanket protection on a daily-fee basis, and y'know what? That's an industry, too. It's not unlike going through a toll booth on the highway, it's irritating and costs you money, but it's something that's not going anywhere, and the alternative is much less pleasant.


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To conclude this series of somewhat disjointed thoughts,

Somewhat?

and address the people that just absolutely hate mining and miners for whatever reason,

Because they have a pathological need to do repetitive tasks such as;

devaluing isk(I'm guilty as charged by the way)

devaluing resources

and avoiding risk at all costs because they're special snowflakes?

if you were to remove that aspect from EVE, you would end up with a game that wasn't EVE.

Ah [i]FINALLY[/i] the [b][u]POINT[/u][/b].

No matter what, we all provide content in some way, shape or form for each other, because the game itself provides very little for us.

Want a cookie?

We have to set our own goals and follow our own paths to those goals,

Did you learn that from the trailer?

because if we don't all we've got is a virtual job that we pay someone else for, and honestly if I wanted that I'd play Minecraft.

Isn't that what you already do?

At least here, in EVE, when I go mining, it's a step in the direction of my goal, and the ore I sell helps someone else down their path, and continues along the cycle of industry.

Cool story, I like shooting sleepers and picking over their dead remains so I can go PVP.

From here on is just going to be my thoughts on how mining might be improved to make things a little more interesting and friendly to those who are just starting in the field, rather than being afraid of getting blown up right away the second they take their new mining barge for a spin. I know not everyone will like this part, but it at least offers a bit of concession that we hisec miners expect some degree of safety

Seriously? That big long spiel about anything and everything not even and only barely related was a lead up to this?

First off, addressing rookie systems, let miners get used to things there in a risk-free environment, but remove the profit. Only put ores that can be used for civilian module blueprints, or make Veldspar a rare thing to see in the belts, enough to get starting miners a bit of ISK. On the next step, divide hisec into tiers, a bit like how it is already with what ores are availible. In 1.0-0.9 systems, disable all strip mining and mining foreman modules, let the mining frigates, 'normal' frigates, cruisers, the Veldnaught and whoever else might use normal, relatively inefficient mining lasers reign, also force Orca hangars to remain closed off while in this area. In 0.8-0.7, allow mining barges to use their strip miners, but not exhumers, and permit orcas the use of their hangar, but not mining foreman modules. 0.6-0.5 allow everyone to do their thing normally. This at least allows semi-safe space for everyone to do what they will while tiering hisec so the greater rewards come with greater risk, as the pirates know exactly where to find the big targets without barring anyone passage through any systems. You want better ore? Better get out to lowsec.

Interesting, why couldn't you just say that?

On the PVP side of things, popping a miner in 0.9+ would have to carry some pretty hefty penalties, as these miners are likely not making enough ISK off their work to even cover the cost of insuring their ship. I'm not saying turn PVP off in this space, but certainly cause the 'kill-on-sight' status of CONCORD to last much longer than lower sec space. If penalizing the PvPer is a bit much to swallow, then have a claus in insurance state that loss of a mining ship in, say, 0.7+ grants a new ship of the same type in the nearest station, sans fittings, rather than an ISK payout. At least that way miners just getting their feet wet don't get scared off the game entirely, and still makes those exhumers tasty targets for those that was to suicide gank in hisec. Just an idea, I know most people won't like it, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

You're right, i don't but you could have just had these two paragraphs and been done. Jesus Christ.

My name is Jsuelieta, I am a hisec miner with nullsec goals and supporter of industry in whatever form it may take. If you actually read this through, I thank you for your time and patience.

Glad you don't agree with me, but unlike you I'm not going to tell you to shut up because I don't like what you're saying.

Great, now that you've had your high horse moment. Perhaps you could respond to my non-existent point? Instead of ironically doing the very thing that you're accusing me of.