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POS's - Hacking/Capturing/Stealing
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Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#41 - 2011-12-13 16:45:40 UTC
Allowing the pos to switch to "abandoned" after 30 days and then allowing another player with a special ship to come in and hack it, would be cool. Some new ore ship for that would be quite nice.

But unless someone hacks it after the first 30 days, I'm for not allowing it to vanish at all.

And offtopic - this is , yet again, as always NOT F&I... Please go there for proper flaming :)

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Abbey Kharum
Doomheim
#42 - 2011-12-13 16:48:34 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Spurty wrote:

This and the fact that there are just insane amounts of abandoned pos's littering moons (Left overs from the old SOV mechanic, owner of 51% of moons took sov).


In null space yes. But a large number of the idle towers in hi-sec are because of the way hi-sec anchoring works, spare towers are common. (Otherwise you have to grind up faction standings on every single character within the corp, or boot everyone out if you need to anchor an additional tower for expansion.)


I don't think this is a good enough reason for them to be just sitting there offline. yes it is a pain to put a high sec POS up. We bought a Corp with standings just to get on online. Those standings last for 7 days then thats's your window closed.

If the high sec POS we have up gets neglected and goes offline then abandoned then we deserve to loose it. Or we could sell the corp because it has a high sec POS if we no longer need it.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-12-13 16:53:26 UTC
Sounds like a bunch of lazyasses don't want to work to remove a POS tower. I have no clue why "harsh" and "scam" describing other aspects of EVE would somehow let you steal an anchored object when you cannot steal an anchored GSC just because "Hacking" is coded in game for a PVE content but should somehow imply that it needs to affect PVP. Yeah, only makes sense if you don't think about it; lets not think that a single tower anchored but offline isn't being used at all, is not producing rewards, is at risk of being destroyed for just being there, and amazingly you are risk free when taking it down because no one will fire back BUT you don't want to shoot it because its boring. So in fact, you having a problem means that you must turn to CCP and "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you are my only hope" to fix your probem when the tools are already in game. Hey, next time someone asks to buff the Hulk don't belittle them and try to come up with a response better then "lol tears" or HTFU but instead "Hey, why can't CCP buff a hulk because its so easy to kill. It would still be possible to kill it and I agree it should get a buff since I got to steal a POS that previously I wouldn't bother with." (<-- yeah right, when ever Hulk is mentioned its a flat out NO!)
Abbey Kharum
Doomheim
#44 - 2011-12-13 16:54:43 UTC
Dr Karsun wrote:
Some new ore ship for that would be quite nice.


I was thinking this also. it could have specific bay space, and a bonus to "hacking" or such like. It might require specific scripts etc for the different racial / faction POS's.

It should also be paper thin and have a terrible align time, not far off the Noctis!

Anyway back to the mechanics and ideas as to how this could work.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#45 - 2011-12-13 17:00:58 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Sounds like a bunch of lazyasses don't want to work to remove a POS tower. I have no clue why "harsh" and "scam" describing other aspects of EVE would somehow let you steal an anchored object when you cannot steal an anchored GSC just because "Hacking" is coded in game for a PVE content but should somehow imply that it needs to affect PVP. Yeah, only makes sense if you don't think about it; lets not think that a single tower anchored but offline isn't being used at all, is not producing rewards, is at risk of being destroyed for just being there, and amazingly you are risk free when taking it down because no one will fire back BUT you don't want to shoot it because its boring. So in fact, you having a problem means that you must turn to CCP and "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you are my only hope" to fix your probem when the tools are already in game. Hey, next time someone asks to buff the Hulk don't belittle them and try to come up with a response better then "lol tears" or HTFU but instead "Hey, why can't CCP buff a hulk because its so easy to kill. It would still be possible to kill it and I agree it should get a buff since I got to steal a POS that previously I wouldn't bother with." (<-- yeah right, when ever Hulk is mentioned its a flat out NO!)


My EYES!

Your point of view might be more relevant if it had more carriage returns and less Hulk references.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Abbey Kharum
Doomheim
#46 - 2011-12-13 17:01:06 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Sounds like a bunch of lazyasses don't want to work to remove
........ blah blah learn to use paragraphs!


But in responce..

Someone leaves their assets un-protected in space. My initial thoughts are not... woohoo lets blow it up. It's ohh can I steal / take that for myself.

Your wandering though space and you see a nice faction battleship with no pod pilot in it, what's your gut reaction?
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#47 - 2011-12-13 17:17:04 UTC
Abbey Kharum wrote:
I don't think this is a good enough reason for them to be just sitting there offline. yes it is a pain to put a high sec POS up. We bought a Corp with standings just to get on online. Those standings last for 7 days then thats's your window closed.


So what are you going to do in a few months when you outgrow your first POS tower? Because when you reach the point where you need to expand to more towers, you're going to have to kick all the members out who are dragging down your faction standings. Or are you going to anchor a bunch of spares and then pay to keep them fueled, even when they're not running any labs/arrays? Unless CCP changes the hi-sec POS mechanics, being able to anchor spares is a valid game mechanic (risky, but valid).

There's no in-game way to tell whether a tower is temporarily been left unfueled as a spare vs one that is abandoned.

Towers owned by corporations that have been disbanded - yes, those should simply unanchor and be scoopable.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#48 - 2011-12-13 17:21:40 UTC
After a POS goes offline, a 30 day timer should start, the owner mailed, and then after 30 days, it should be "hackable", level V hacking etc, special module, what have you, then steal-able. Also any anchored (and not onlined) towers should also have this same timer installed as well).
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Abbey Kharum
Doomheim
#49 - 2011-12-13 18:50:07 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Abbey Kharum wrote:
I don't think this is a good enough reason for them to be just sitting there offline. yes it is a pain to put a high sec POS up. We bought a Corp with standings just to get on online. Those standings last for 7 days then thats's your window closed.


So what are you going to do in a few months when you outgrow your first POS tower? Because when you reach the point where you need to expand to more towers, you're going to have to kick all the members out who are dragging down your faction standings. Or are you going to anchor a bunch of spares and then pay to keep them fueled, even when they're not running any labs/arrays? Unless CCP changes the hi-sec POS mechanics, being able to anchor spares is a valid game mechanic (risky, but valid).

There's no in-game way to tell whether a tower is temporarily been left unfueled as a spare vs one that is abandoned.

Towers owned by corporations that have been disbanded - yes, those should simply unanchor and be scoopable.


By that stage I am hoping we will not need to rely on a high sec POS. We will either go to WH, low or null. Join an allaince / be in a position to defend assets in WH or low-sec space. Just as we found a solution to fit our current needs our industrial requirements will change, and we will plan for that eventuality understanding the limitations and benefits of all the possible options.

We have already started dipping our toes in WH space.

If we wanted to expand our assets in Empire then we know we need to increase our Corp standing.
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#50 - 2011-12-13 19:15:02 UTC
You should be able to hack it to recover, or even salvage it to convert to metal scraps (seriously 500:1 compression on Trit as that volume is a nice ....niche)

I think you should be able to hack functioning POS to gain intel of what they are producing / researching / mining, etc.... of course you need to negotiate the defense for that, but still.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#51 - 2011-12-13 19:16:31 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:


Towers owned by corporations that have been disbanded - yes, those should simply unanchor and be scoopable.


I don't think you can disband a corporation with assets in space can you? I honestly don't know, just a gut feeling.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Emiko P'eng
#52 - 2011-12-13 20:08:10 UTC
Here are my ideas!

1) To hack an un-fuelled POS you would need a hacking module that you attach to the tower. When activated, this would send an email to the owner warning of the hack attempt. For a POS just out of fuel, the computer defences mean it would take 24 hours for the module to work. On a POS that has been abandoned for over 50 days it might take just a couple of hours.

2) In Low-Sec as you need Government permission for your tower. You could only attempt a takeover after the Government has either declared the POS abandoned after say 50days or as a result of war between the owner & those attempting to gain control of the POS. On a successful hack you would then need to pay a 'transfer of deeds' fee to the Government to seal the deal.

3) The longer the POS has been abandoned the more it should cost to repair & renovate. The result is after say 100days the cost of renovation would be more than selling it for scrap and buying new! (Note this means in Low-Sec the above 50day rule would mean the renovation costs would automatically be approx 50% the cost of a new POS + the transfer fee)

4) In 0.0 & WH space the hacking attempt could take place immediately after the fuel ran out, without the need of a war-dec & no transfer fee required.

I feel if these were introduced you would see a new style of war where one corp would attempt to stop another corp from refuelling its POS so they can gain access after the fuel runs out !
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2011-12-14 09:34:33 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
I'd go so far as to say that if a POS is offline, it should be vulnerable to hacking attacks. Once it's hacked, it's hacked to your corp and you can online or unanchor it.

This should be doable in hisec as well as low/null/ws, to clean out all the placeholder/abandoned POSes in hisec.


Yeah, that's a better mechanic than abandoned timers.

Hack it - make the chance really small and/or require several successes so it takes a little while (at least 10 minutes) - and then give it a reinforced timer where the original owners get eve mail and a time period to try and come un-hack it and put it back online.


I like where you're going with this... but I think the reinforced timer would wind up hurting the efforts to clean out wormholes of their abandoned POS's with little to no chance of the prior owners finding entry to the abandoned system to reactivate it. If you're in empire, you have little to no chance at all of finding any particular wormhole system on short notice. Plus the poor bugger that did the hacking may be up against his own way home being EoL so time's an issue there.

well. i would say: this is what WH is supposed to be - unknown, unpredictable and dangerrous system.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Abbey Kharum
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-12-14 10:28:47 UTC
Do CCP have an overall policy / design principle when it comes to abandoned assets?
Banroh
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-12-14 11:06:42 UTC
I would like to hear reason to this. Why is this problem? I know what this means and i know there are sometimes offline POS on my dscan too.

Altho this has never ruined my ping or fps, ive never felt great emotions on offline poses or felt like this is problem at all.

I agree they could change ownership, its not that bad idea.

Still reason it somehow. Or hire mercs if you want to prove ccp that eve is so much better without this imaginary problem
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#56 - 2011-12-14 11:18:10 UTC
I really think this is one of the better threads here on GD in a while. Some interesting ideas here. I think they should be conquerable myself if they are offline and abandoned.

One positive aspect of this is it could actually free up some server resources by cleaning out the unused POS, like they did when they started to clean out unused GSCs. Mind you, I'm no server expert or anything, dunno if cleaning up abandoned POS would effect the server. It was just a thought I had because you could actually notice it on the server when they cleaned up the GSCs.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#57 - 2011-12-15 00:38:20 UTC
Banroh wrote:
I would like to hear reason to this. Why is this problem?


Its not a "problem", its something that many think should be part of the game, to make the game more interesting and maybe add a new profession: POS recovery. If I find an abandoned POS, why should my only option be blow it up? Why not add an option to recover and sell the POS? It would be a new thing for people to do, some more sand in the sandbox.

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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2011-12-15 00:51:10 UTC
I have to say that this is not an original idea. I mean who hasn't thought how cool it would be to be able to either bring online what in essence is a fully setup pos or salvage it in some way? And yes there are a lot of them out there. Unless you're km whoring there really isn't any reason to take down a lone tower.......as tower with anchored guns absolutely. You never know when the owners will wake up and come back.

Don't ban me, bro!
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