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Fix Geckos
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Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#1 - 2014-11-12 17:16:58 UTC
I can confirm they hit wrecking shots way more than any other drone I've ever seen. Probably what makes them so great honestly.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-11-12 17:18:33 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I can confirm they hit wrecking shots way more than any other drone I've ever seen. Probably what makes them so great honestly.


Source/data in a meaningful sample size?
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#3 - 2014-11-12 17:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I can confirm they hit wrecking shots way more than any other drone I've ever seen. Probably what makes them so great honestly.


Source/data in a meaningful sample size?



Received 5 wrecking shots from 2 Geckos within 1 minute that flat out missed every other shot. Wrecking shots were received well in excess of the drone's optimal range + fall off ( 15-20km+ ).

Also I can remember quite a bit from other experiences that fighting geckos was always an issue/annoyance because of the constant wrecking shots they get while all other shots miss.

I've never experienced this volume of wrecking shots with any other drone period in my years of the game.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-11-12 17:28:33 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I can confirm they hit wrecking shots way more than any other drone I've ever seen. Probably what makes them so great honestly.


Source/data in a meaningful sample size?



Received 5 wrecking shots from 2 Geckos within 1 minute that flat out missed every other shot. Wrecking shots were received well in excess of the drone's optimal range + fall off ( 15-20km+ ).

Also I can remember quite a bit from other experiences that fighting geckos was always an issue/annoyance because of the constant wrecking shots they get while all other shots miss.

I've never experienced this volume of wrecking shots with any other drone period in my years of the game.


Nice anecdote. Care to provide what I asked for now?
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#5 - 2014-11-12 17:32:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I can confirm they hit wrecking shots way more than any other drone I've ever seen. Probably what makes them so great honestly.


Source/data in a meaningful sample size?



Received 5 wrecking shots from 2 Geckos within 1 minute that flat out missed every other shot. Wrecking shots were received well in excess of the drone's optimal range + fall off ( 15-20km+ ).

Also I can remember quite a bit from other experiences that fighting geckos was always an issue/annoyance because of the constant wrecking shots they get while all other shots miss.

I've never experienced this volume of wrecking shots with any other drone period in my years of the game.


Nice anecdote. Care to provide what I asked for now?


Im sure someone else who knows what you are talking about can do that. I made the thread merely to attract someone who could collaborate and provide the data you seek.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-11-12 17:45:11 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I can confirm they hit wrecking shots way more than any other drone I've ever seen. Probably what makes them so great honestly.


Source/data in a meaningful sample size?



Received 5 wrecking shots from 2 Geckos within 1 minute that flat out missed every other shot. Wrecking shots were received well in excess of the drone's optimal range + fall off ( 15-20km+ ).

Also I can remember quite a bit from other experiences that fighting geckos was always an issue/annoyance because of the constant wrecking shots they get while all other shots miss.

I've never experienced this volume of wrecking shots with any other drone period in my years of the game.


Two Geckos shooting a target every 4 seconds for 60 seconds means 480 shots total. The chance of a wrecking shot is 1%. 1% of 480 shots is 4.8 shots, or about 5 shots. Confirmed - Geckos working as intended, same as all other drones. (Just because you have not noticed 1% of shots with other drones being wrecking shots does not mean they haven't been wrecking shots.)
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
#7 - 2014-11-12 17:51:01 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Received 5 wrecking shots from 2 Geckos within 1 minute


And you though that was a lot? This sounds about right to any drone.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#8 - 2014-11-12 17:53:27 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Two Geckos shooting a target every 4 seconds for 60 seconds means 480 shots total.

I don't really care about balancing geckos, but I had to step up and point out your terrible maths. 4 second ROF means that each gecko fires 15 times in 60 seconds. Two geckos therefore fire 30 shots per minute, not 480.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#9 - 2014-11-12 18:14:25 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
Two Geckos shooting a target every 4 seconds for 60 seconds means 480 shots total.

I don't really care about balancing geckos, but I had to step up and point out your terrible maths. 4 second ROF means that each gecko fires 15 times in 60 seconds. Two geckos therefore fire 30 shots per minute, not 480.


So if Im mathing correctly 16% wrecking shot chance with geckos?

Thats a bit absurd considering wreckings ignore all tracking and range calcs, and usually hit for over 1k with these OP drones.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#10 - 2014-11-12 18:23:50 UTC
There does seem something a bit off with them - I've an alt that has all L2 drone support skills and insta pops NPC frigs with geckos - I've not really looked at the hits/misses to see the ratio of wrecking shots to misses, etc. though.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#11 - 2014-11-12 18:40:19 UTC
Your sample size is too small to be statistically meaningful.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Gaan Cathal
Angry Mustellid
#12 - 2014-11-12 18:42:39 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
Two Geckos shooting a target every 4 seconds for 60 seconds means 480 shots total.

I don't really care about balancing geckos, but I had to step up and point out your terrible maths. 4 second ROF means that each gecko fires 15 times in 60 seconds. Two geckos therefore fire 30 shots per minute, not 480.


So if Im mathing correctly 16% wrecking shot chance with geckos?

Thats a bit absurd considering wreckings ignore all tracking and range calcs, and usually hit for over 1k with these OP drones.


16% of your shots wrecked.
That doesn't mean a 16% chance of wrecking.

Given as wrecking chance is a stochastic phenomenon, you want more than a 30-shot sample to be able to say that your percentage of shots wrecking is equivalent to percentage chance of shots wrecking.

That said, lol at 480 shots.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#13 - 2014-11-12 18:57:03 UTC
Rroff wrote:
There does seem something a bit off with them - I've an alt that has all L2 drone support skills and insta pops NPC frigs with geckos - I've not really looked at the hits/misses to see the ratio of wrecking shots to misses, etc. though.


Please do.

Moving on, let's do some math, shall we?

A Myrmidon does 680 and somewhat dps with 2x Gecko and 2x tech2 drone damage amplifier. All Drones have a rate of fire of four seconds. How much hp damage must a drone do to get to 390dps?

Next question, let's assume all NPC frigates have 700ehp. Now with the answer to the first question is it so far of that one Gecko can vaporize that said ship?

A thing about turrets that seem to be not common knowledge.

A turret has an optimal range and a falloff range. Disregarding all tracking a turret can do up to 100% damage in optimal range. At the end of the falloff range of that turret, the damage drops to 50% damage of what you see on your fitting screen.

This range is not the end of the world and it has a higher change of wrecking shots.

Now for the next fact you need some i-magination because it is not shown on any fitting screen or fitting tool. For all turrets in EVE, which include the guns of drones, all turrets at the range of 2x falloff will do zero damage, not before.

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Leonard Nimoy II
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-11-12 20:16:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Leonard Nimoy II
Given that they are a limited item worth close to 30mil each, and will eventually grow in price as people keep losing them, I'm going to say a tentative -1 unless CCP plans to introduce more of them to the game. As a highly priced limited edition item, they should be better than t2 or faction heavies.

Keep in mind you can only fly 2 geckos vs. four Ogres for example, the chance of getting a wrecking shot with an ogre could reasonably be half of the gecko and geckos would not be OP.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-11-12 20:22:21 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Received 5 wrecking shots from 2 Geckos within 1 minute that flat out missed every other shot. Wrecking shots were received well in excess of the drone's optimal range + fall off ( 15-20km+ ).


As I recall - this is how guns work - at least at the ranges you describe: Either it is a wrecking or a miss and nothing in the middle.

I'm sure someone can confirm//has a link.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#16 - 2014-11-12 20:28:56 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Received 5 wrecking shots from 2 Geckos within 1 minute that flat out missed every other shot. Wrecking shots were received well in excess of the drone's optimal range + fall off ( 15-20km+ ).


As I recall - this is how guns work - at least at the ranges you describe: Either it is a wrecking or a miss and nothing in the middle.

I'm sure someone can confirm//has a link.

This is correct. Hit quality scales up with hit probability. If you "roll" a 100 and it's a hit, you get the highest "normal" quality hit, if you "roll" a 2 and it's a hit, you get the lowest "normal" quality hit. This is why turret damage output scales so dramatically with hit probability.

The exception is wrecking hits. They are always a "roll" of 1. As long as you have a 1% chance of hitting, you can get wrecking hits, so if you're deep in falloff or beyond tracking, you'll either miss (most often) or hit spectacularly (if infrequently).

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Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-11-13 13:06:30 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I can confirm they hit wrecking shots way more than any other drone I've ever seen. Probably what makes them so great honestly.


Data?

Proof?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#18 - 2014-11-13 13:21:13 UTC
im not seeing this.

Drones get a high number of wrecking shtos because their hits are individually calculated. They also get a high number of 'freak misses'.

if you ungrouped the guns on your battleship i imagine you'd get something similar.

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Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-11-13 13:55:16 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Rroff wrote:
There does seem something a bit off with them - I've an alt that has all L2 drone support skills and insta pops NPC frigs with geckos - I've not really looked at the hits/misses to see the ratio of wrecking shots to misses, etc. though.


Please do.

Moving on, let's do some math, shall we?

A Myrmidon does 680 and somewhat dps with 2x Gecko and 2x tech2 drone damage amplifier. All Drones have a rate of fire of four seconds. How much hp damage must a drone do to get to 390dps?

Next question, let's assume all NPC frigates have 700ehp. Now with the answer to the first question is it so far of that one Gecko can vaporize that said ship?

A thing about turrets that seem to be not common knowledge.

A turret has an optimal range and a falloff range. Disregarding all tracking a turret can do up to 100% damage in optimal range. At the end of the falloff range of that turret, the damage drops to 50% damage of what you see on your fitting screen.

This range is not the end of the world and it has a higher change of wrecking shots.

Now for the next fact you need some i-magination because it is not shown on any fitting screen or fitting tool. For all turrets in EVE, which include the guns of drones, all turrets at the range of 2x falloff will do zero damage, not before.



why I wished many would go beyond the basic top screen of fitting tool of choice and use the dps graphing. It shows a lot more.


Rest of this....sounds like op had a rough night at the crap tables. It happens. Or there is side story not being share. I know a great way to get wrecking shots chance increased. Fly really badly. Why I stopped playing eve completely 3 sheets to the wind lol.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-11-13 15:04:30 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:


So if Im mathing correctly 16% wrecking shot chance with geckos?

Thats a bit absurd considering wreckings ignore all tracking and range calcs, and usually hit for over 1k with these OP drones.


I won the lottery after buying 3 tickets. Therefore there is a 33% chance of winning the lottery. See the problem?

If you really want to prove this is an issue, then duel a friend with Geckos for several minutes, count the total number of Gecko shots and the total number of wrecking shots.
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