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Medical Clones, what purpose to they serve?

Author
Johnathan Lee Buelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-11-05 04:49:05 UTC
This is a bit of a rant, so let me summarize:

Remove medical clones, or make purchasing upgrades permanent.

If not this, allow for use of items gained by having that skill trained, but remove the bonuses from the last level of training.

Why? because losing something like Projectile Turrets V can cost you billions of isk in lost time. This does not affect other players, only yourself. It is completely un-intuitive to new players, and the most infuriating and defeating **** that can possibly happen to a player. This game is not enhanced by the existence of medical clones. It is a ****** mechanic that wastes the all important resource that cannot be replaced by any means: Time.




So, Insurance can be said to be an isk sink and a way to insure a minimum value for ships. It's a stabilization feature for pricing.

Jump clones have an obvious use. To move between different areas in the galaxy, like from a null sec to a high sec for a clone with better implants for a few days while training, or other logistical reasons.

Medical clones, which, if you forget to do something with, or, in the case with the new expansion, instapop yourself in station because it says you can transfer immediately to a new remotely set medical clone, all the while forgetting the step before that, which is to make sure the clone is fully upgraded in the first place.

But seriously, whats the flipping point of medical clones? To infuriate players when they get podded moving from one station without a med facility to another to upgrade the clone?

Losing skill points after losing a T III ship makes sense, and if a similar skill type that would take about 5 days of training, or the loss for 5 days worth of skill points in HACS or interceptors or black ops ships if you lose one makes sense, but randomly removing the highest level of skill points due to silly mistakes is the most infuriating thing that can happen to a person in eve.

Don't give me 'it's your fault for not upgrading' bit. I've been podded without a proper clone before and lost a 30 day skill in it's entirety, it hurts, and I've retrained it. but the entire system of losing your skill points is just ******** in itself and should be done away with.

So, I have now lost Large Projectile Turrets V, and I cannot fly any of my ships used for ratting, as I use minmitar with TII artillery. Stupid mistake has cost me 30 days worth of ratting income, or 30 days worth of incursions. 3 hours a day, for 25 days (removing a couple days a week) to retrain Projectile Turrets V can equate to a loss of 9 billion isk, if you are running incursions.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2014-11-05 05:08:04 UTC
ISK Sink.

Personally, I think they should be changed to a cap on trainable skill points. So no skill point losses.
Aivo Dresden
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
WE FORM BL0B
#3 - 2014-11-05 14:44:24 UTC
That does suck, sorry to hear. :(

I'm surprised though that you're a hardcore incursion runner who potentially lost billions of isk and you're highest rank, most trained skill is Large Projectiles V. No Battleship 5, no AWU V, Large Artillery or Autocannon Specialization V, ... :P

At the moment though, there's really just no alternative. You wake up after getting podded, you get a new clone. The end. :(
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2014-11-05 16:38:24 UTC
Your med clone should ALLWAYS go to a station with a medical bay. When you wake up there...it should be a clue that you have to upgrade now.

As for T2 guns, if you injected the skill, you can use the guns, fly the ship, mount the module, etc. etc.
Losing the prereque won't change that.
Even if it did, you could rat with META IV just fine, and do incursions with faction ammo.



As for price of clones, they actually lowered it recently. Used to be much more.


I've lost most of BS V before, yeah it hurt, but I never forgot again... At this time, I have something like 55 days into Caldari BS V Cry

Skill loss is bad customer service on some level. Time actually costs money in EVE, so when they implement a mechanic that steels your time, it is effectively wasting your money.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#5 - 2014-11-06 13:37:06 UTC
Johnathan Lee Buelle wrote:
Don't give me 'it's your fault for not upgrading' bit. I've been podded without a proper clone before and lost a 30 day skill in it's entirety, it hurts, and I've retrained it. but the entire system of losing your skill points is just ******** in itself and should be done away with.

I didn't think this was possible - it was limited to a percentage wasn't it?

Johnathan Lee Buelle wrote:
So, I have now lost Large Projectile Turrets V, and I cannot fly any of my ships used for ratting, as I use minmitar with TII artillery. Stupid mistake has cost me 30 days worth of ratting income, or 30 days worth of incursions. 3 hours a day, for 25 days (removing a couple days a week) to retrain Projectile Turrets V can equate to a loss of 9 billion isk, if you are running incursions.

Even if it's going to take you 30 days to get T2 guns back you aren't losing that time unless you choose to. You could quite easily fit T1 or faction guns and carry on, you'll lose some damage certainly and therefore some income; but you won't lose all of it.
If your Incursion community has a problem with you using T1 guns while you retrain after a podding then perhaps it's time to find a new Incursion community.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2014-11-06 21:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned today's announcement.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2li9vi/no_more_clone_upgrades/clv0ocd
Johnathan Lee Buelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-11-07 00:45:57 UTC
:o well, I'll just pretend my unhappy thread mentioning it spurred them on to make this change finally.

Carry on Gentlemen.
Luwc
LOGOS Community
Lux Collective
#8 - 2014-11-07 07:43:01 UTC
ccp is removing clone grades which to me is more autism friendly but w/e.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Johnathan Lee Buelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-11-07 13:21:03 UTC
Luwc wrote:
ccp is removing clone grades which to me is more autism friendly but w/e.



There are many changes that could or have happened that make the game more dumbed down. Removing med clone upgrades is not one of them. It is simply a frustrating, pointless system that adds nothing to gameplay, except fury when your med clone gets changed without notifying you to a station that does not have med facilities, and you have to fly around risking weeks worth of training because of it, potentially in low or null sec. On top of that, the new system of remotely changing your clone facility kindly offers to change your station to the new med station, but doesn't tell you they are changing your station by nuking your current pod.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-11-08 15:35:02 UTC
Johnathan Lee Buelle wrote:

So, I have now lost Large Projectile Turrets V, and I cannot fly any of my ships used for ratting, as I use minmitar with TII artillery. Stupid mistake has cost me 30 days worth of ratting income, or 30 days worth of incursions. 3 hours a day, for 25 days (removing a couple days a week) to retrain Projectile Turrets V can equate to a loss of 9 billion isk, if you are running incursions.


The only way to lose turrets 5 for 30 days, is if you where stupid enough to get podded repeatedly without upgrading or you never upgraded your clone at some point. If you never upgraded your clone, welcome to consequences of EVE. First rule of EVE, always fly what you can afford: divide that by the ship cost, ship insurance if you care, implant cost, and medical clone....if you didn't well sucks to be you.

Tthis entire situation is why I would like to see medical clones gone but SP loss implemented when the ship goes pop (with smaller ships losing more SP Twisted)....to create more aversion and more "strategic" necessity over "lol I sit in highsec popping barges all day at no risk in cat dessies while subscribing to the newsletter of some whackjob asteroid shepherd LARPing about protecting them from sinning miners" kills for thrills games play.....if they lost SP at some point even they would stop popping barges, thus becoming risk averse carebears with -10 red blinky that suck at any other game play Roll. The strategic necessity would then imply SP protection services (medical clones again) only available in null or player corp POS, thus creating more combat until one side caves and runs. Problem solved, thus creating more content as one side bashes the brains out of the other for lulz as they hunt them down and exterminate them Twisted
Johnathan Lee Buelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-11-09 21:02:13 UTC
And completely destroy several different types of gameplay in the process.

Eve has 3 distinct types of zones. I've lived in high sec, I've lived in null. I've run around in low sec, but that place is ******* scary.

There is a place for SP loss, and I think how they do it with the TIII cruisers is a great system. The rest of the system with clone upgrades serves no purpose, and should be removed until a proper system is in place with a well defined purpose. Let me reitterate, there should be no question as to the consequences of your actions when it comes to losing SP. Such a huge detrimental affect should not be ambiguous, especially when it occurs due to a voluntary action that is completely in the control of the player, like forgetting to upgrade BEFORE resetting a clone location. Having an upgraded clone should be a prerequisite for this to occur when docked in station.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#12 - 2014-11-12 17:07:58 UTC
Its a isk sink and it keeps older players from risking their clones for laughs. My clone currently cost about 52m a death i think and it wont be long before i hit the next clone which is over 100M isk

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2014-11-12 21:08:38 UTC
Agondray wrote:
Its a isk sink and it keeps older players from risking their clones for laughs. My clone currently cost about 52m a death i think and it wont be long before i hit the next clone which is over 100M isk

I'll have to update my table after Rhea:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_happens_when_my_character_dies#Medical_Clone_Contracts