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Wormholes

 
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Wormhole PvE suggestions, ideas.

First post
Author
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#41 - 2014-11-12 15:21:46 UTC
I like the idea about mini escalations in lowclass WH, but are you sure that it is a good idea to have mechanics that encourage caps in lowclass WHs? Caps in lowclass WHs should be something people build for defence or for being lazy with sites. I would rather see Marauders take that role, but still make it possible (and profitable) for corps with a large (but inexperianced) player group to do it with smaller subcaps.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Steven Hackett
Overload This
Escalation Theory
#42 - 2014-11-12 15:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Steven Hackett
I obv. can't comment on c1-c4 space.. but my thoughts on the C5+ changes to escalations..

Don't make escalations and PVE in general more tedious than it already is!
Trying to fix an issue by adding changes that makes the game more tedious is pretty damn bad gamedesign tbh.
with that I mean, don't do **** that makes the sites take longer to run(adding cruisers/frigs or moving spawns).

Im also not sure I like moving the isk to the finish of the site. This will remove isk from corp activities(cap escalations) and put the isk into the hands of the solo player(Marauders, dreads, carriers).
Changes shouldn't encourage people to play solo, which would be the case here.

As for burner missions in W-space..
Fozzie is bad.. Frigats sucks.. Don't buy in to his BS and don't ruin EVE by listening to him. thx <3
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#43 - 2014-11-12 15:56:43 UTC
Steven Hackett wrote:
I obv. can't comment on c1-c4 space.. but my thoughts on the C5+ changes to escalations..

Don't make escalations and PVE in general more tedious than it already is!
Trying to fix an issue by adding changes that makes the game more tedious is pretty damn bad gamedesign tbh.
with that I mean, don't do **** that makes the sites take longer to run(adding cruisers/frigs or moving spawns).

Im also not sure I like moving the isk to the finish of the site. This will remove isk from corp activities(cap escalations) and put the isk into the hands of the solo player(Marauders, dreads, carriers).
Changes shouldn't encourage people to play solo, which would be the case here.

As for burner missions in W-space..
Fozzie is bad.. Frigats sucks.. Don't buy in to his BS and don't ruin EVE by listening to him. thx <3



Frigates are great, just not in Wspace. You want people to consider smaller ships, wormholers need a way to "swap" clones from our cruiser dedicated clones to something more acceptable for frigate sized piloting, in Wspace.

That's just one of the issues though.

Yaay!!!!

King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#44 - 2014-11-12 16:05:38 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:

Frigates are great, just not in Wspace. You want people to consider smaller ships, wormholers need a way to "swap" clones from our cruiser dedicated clones to something more acceptable for frigate sized piloting, in Wspace.

That's just one of the issues though.


Frigates are great everywhere. I have only one medium turret specific implant, doesn't really bother me when flying other ship classes. Rest are useful for all ships.



Papa Django
Materials Harvesting Kombinat
#45 - 2014-11-12 16:13:23 UTC
As a small wh corp CEO, he have seen a big rise of tourists from Phoebe. But this is mainly T1 frig and covops. They come for the nullsec relic/data. Sometimes there is a couple of bc T1 comin for anomaly but this is still rare.

We need sleeper DED like DED in WSpace with sleepers DED modules loots to increase activity.

For escalations, should be based on Battleship in C1/C2 and Marauders in C3/C4.
Ridvanson
#46 - 2014-11-12 16:15:13 UTC
Hey corbexx, I have given this some more thought.

I remember someone from CCP stating, that they didn't like how sites in C5/C6 space were run with regards to escalating them more than once. So any discussion about an overhaul must take into account that this feature is likely going to be removed.

Having that in mind, I imagine the following changes would accomplish the goal of encouraging people to run sites in there static without skewing the balance of escalation risk/reward.

- increase the value of the sites themselves by some 100m/150m isk for C5/C6 class wh (simply by adding 1 or 2 waves)
- introduce a 14 day timer after which sites despawn automatically without being triggered
- turn up the total number of combat sites (if necessary)
- leave capital escalations alone!
- introduce a sleeper capital that spawns on the warp-in of a third dread. To motivate people to actually finish the site, the sleeper capitals's wreck can only be accessed by way of hacking after ALL sleepers in the site are dead. I'm thinking the value of the sleeper capital should be around ~50m + the chance to drop some rare mods.

What do you think?



Michal Jita
Lords Of The Universe
#47 - 2014-11-13 07:09:04 UTC
corbexx as a side note in CSM minutes there is a lot said about new sov space, there are ideas about soveless type of structures for null, if that is introduced in null sec, surely same soveless mechanic could be implemented in WH.
Now what this means for Bobs beloved space is that we could for example get 'pirate detection' upgrades and stuff like that and what this means for a large corp that can afford them and can keep them online they would no longer require cap escalations at all as there could be enough anomalies for all members to run at some point in 24h cycle.
Just mentioning this here as if CCP takes this approach a lot of above ideas and discussion would become irrelevant.

What is your view on this and can we count on you pushing WH upgrades IF null gets to be claim it by using it soveless type of space. You can already find TCUs in WH space for people wanting to have their flag post in WH surely there would be people interested in that.
Papa Django
Materials Harvesting Kombinat
#48 - 2014-11-13 11:01:40 UTC
I know this is not a pve stuff but with the Hyperion Changes on mass jump distance, covops are impossible to catch even with inty full stuff for scan resolution.

With proper fit, an inty can lock anything in less then one second. And even with that kind of scan res, a covops cloaking right after a jump is uncatchable.

It is a big issue, we should be able to kill covops when defending a hole, or at least force him to go back. Not easily but with the right setup and fit we should be able to do that.

Actually it depends only on luck (is the covops close enough to another ship to get a very quick decloak before the covops w/o or before the covops go out a dictor bubble.
Michal Swiostek
Mental Disruption
#49 - 2014-11-13 11:28:45 UTC
Papa Django wrote:
I know this is not a pve stuff but with the Hyperion Changes on mass jump distance, covops are impossible to catch even with inty full stuff for scan resolution.

With proper fit, an inty can lock anything in less then one second. And even with that kind of scan res, a covops cloaking right after a jump is uncatchable.

It is a big issue, we should be able to kill covops when defending a hole, or at least force him to go back. Not easily but with the right setup and fit we should be able to do that.

Actually it depends only on luck (is the covops close enough to another ship to get a very quick decloak before the covops w/o or before the covops go out a dictor bubble.


This is nearly the same as jumping through gates in null sec or low sec, and people die there quite regularly so cant see why this is a problem for you?

Also is killing cov ops frigs the top pvp content your looking for?
Papa Django
Materials Harvesting Kombinat
#50 - 2014-11-13 11:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Papa Django
Michal Swiostek wrote:

This is nearly the same as jumping through gates in null sec or low sec, and people die there quite regularly so cant see why this is a problem for you?


Yes ... but ... We are in WSpace ... Not in KSpace. And with gates you are not randomly poped around the gate, there is a direction. So it is easier to decloak a covops in nullsec.

Before Hyperion, covops was not able to cloak after jump, so even with a prop on that covops you had the time to lock it down with an inty before cloak.

Now you can't.

Michal Swiostek wrote:

Also is killing cov ops frigs the top pvp content your looking for?


Killing a covops entering in your hole remove intel to your ennemies before a fight. So if you field the right ships to defend your hole against ennemy intel (dictor + inty) you should be able to avoid ennemy intel.

That has nothing to do with killing covops for killing covops.
Michal Swiostek
Mental Disruption
#51 - 2014-11-13 11:57:31 UTC
Papa Django wrote:


Yes ... but ... We are in WSpace ... Not in KSpace. And with gates you are not randomly poped around the gate, there is a direction. So it is easier to decloak a covops in nullsec.


Jumping through gate you can appear ANYWHERE 12km away from gate in ANY direction effectively you can be 25+km away from your target.
In a WH covops will normally land 5km away from WH giving a bubble of about 15km diameter a lot closer than on gate effectively giving you a lot more chance of catching one.

Not saying its easy, just easier in a WH than kspace, a lot easier.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#52 - 2014-11-13 12:28:51 UTC
Papa Django wrote:

Before Hyperion, covops was not able to cloak after jump, so even with a prop on that covops you had the time to lock it down with an inty before cloak.

Now you can't.


Yes they were able to cloak after jump, unless bad luck landed them in decloak range of the hole, which was not that often.

Papa Django
Materials Harvesting Kombinat
#53 - 2014-11-13 13:36:45 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Yes they were able to cloak after jump, unless bad luck landed them in decloak range of the hole, which was not that often.



It was A LOT easier.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#54 - 2014-11-13 13:39:59 UTC
Papa Django wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Yes they were able to cloak after jump, unless bad luck landed them in decloak range of the hole, which was not that often.



It was A LOT easier.


Since the mass changes in wormhole space, I maybe once landed in decloak range of the hole.

There are ways to address this, all are kinda bad.

Yaay!!!!

MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-11-13 14:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: MooMooDachshundCow
Even before the change a properly fitted and piloted covops was nigh-impossible to catch. I only lost mine when I was in warp to a wh and something happened where I forgot that I had landed (high) and there was someone there to insta-blap.

I literally can't think of a time that my covops was decloaked by a WH gatecamp, though props to Band of Magnus for coming the closest (they used multiple inties/dictors).

I've been in wormholes since before Odyssey and IMHO covops have always been pretty damn slippery. I think that's fine. All they can do effectively is look.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#56 - 2014-11-13 16:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Covert ops have always been difficuilt to catch when fit and piloted well, the same tecniques work as they always have, however, if one is trying to lock them before they warp, one still is relying on them making a mistake or being careless. Personally I would not expect anything else when hunting them. That is their Job and what they are designed for.
A few Bombs however still work as well as they always have. It works well for us.
Just do not expect 100% success in killing them.

If you find covert ops annoying to catch the triple (at least) stabbed, interdiction nullifying, jamming, neuting T3 cloaky scanning ship designed for "hot" holes, (plus some other sneaky features) that one player we know uses, would really annoy you.Shocked

But smart players with good choices, will catch that one day too.

The point is sometimes smart prey is difficult to catch. Play your best, and do not expect CCP or other players to make things easy.

Edit:- this is the PVE little things thread, so shall we drop this subject and move on now please?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Luft Reich
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#57 - 2014-11-13 18:56:35 UTC
Reasoning behind c6 space having more battleships spawn than c5 space? Biased much? Should really be even.

ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post

corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2014-11-14 10:17:51 UTC
Luft Reich wrote:
Reasoning behind c6 space having more battleships spawn than c5 space? Biased much? Should really be even.


funny enough the idea for that attually came from someone who lives in C5 space as at the moment there is literally no reason what so ever to live in c6 over c5 the iskis exactly the same, your safer in a c5 get more null sec exits for pew. there is literally no reason to be in a c6 wh over a c5.

But playing devils advocate, why should they really be the same?
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2014-11-14 10:21:37 UTC
Michal Jita wrote:
corbexx as a side note in CSM minutes there is a lot said about new sov space, there are ideas about soveless type of structures for null, if that is introduced in null sec, surely same soveless mechanic could be implemented in WH.
Now what this means for Bobs beloved space is that we could for example get 'pirate detection' upgrades and stuff like that and what this means for a large corp that can afford them and can keep them online they would no longer require cap escalations at all as there could be enough anomalies for all members to run at some point in 24h cycle.
Just mentioning this here as if CCP takes this approach a lot of above ideas and discussion would become irrelevant.

What is your view on this and can we count on you pushing WH upgrades IF null gets to be claim it by using it soveless type of space. You can already find TCUs in WH space for people wanting to have their flag post in WH surely there would be people interested in that.



One of the issues is your starting to turn everything in to the sort of thing. I cetainly dont want ever last anoms in wh space and people never leaving there home system i'm trying to encourage people to go out and do more stuff in there static
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#60 - 2014-11-14 10:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Biggest complaint would be _Sentries_ in some anoms. They're dumb, they defy sigtanking and they occasionally make it necessary to fly with your scanner fleeted, cause else they're vollying you into structure on some armorships. Yes, no issue with the 10% extra-hp from being fleeted, but damn risky without fleet-boni.

In addition, they kill ambitioned rookies that go *hey it shoot sperfectly out to 60km, it surely doesn't track then*... they thought, before I dropped the tractor.

I also hear a lot of supposedly honourable wormholers whine about frigate holes. Yes, frig piloting is hard, especially in a gang. That does't mean frigates are bad, but only that you can't pilot things.