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Dev blog: All That Is Gold Does Not Glitter - Data Sites, Expeditions

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Shiva Darksun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#321 - 2014-11-06 16:26:19 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:

you are not the first to defend cherry picking so my they stands as I lump all cherry picker defenders into the same group

Cherry picking needs someone to do it. Denying that activity to one is denying scanning for all. I, for one, hack the most valuable cans and then double-fail all others as a courtesy. Making them unscannable diminishes my entertainment because there are douchebags out there. Therefore, I oppose it, it's as simple as that.

Lady Rift wrote:

edit: and it really doesn't take long to hack a can or fail twice in the hack.


I heard that so many times it's stupid. It might not take YOU that long, because hey, everyone and their dog seem to be experts in everything, but it might take others long enough. I watched, cloaked, as a guy was trying to hack cans in a data site and failed all but two. Then he was caught by a Saber bubble and killed.

Car analogy: if you're a great driver, don't scoff at or dismiss everyone else who isn't. People are different.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#322 - 2014-11-06 19:05:28 UTC
Shiva Darksun wrote:
Cherry picking needs someone to do it. Denying that activity to one is denying scanning for all. I, for one, hack the most valuable cans and then double-fail all others as a courtesy. Making them unscannable diminishes my entertainment because there are douchebags out there. Therefore, I oppose it, it's as simple as that.

I would agree with cherrypicking if loot was distributed more or less equally among cans. Then yep, 3 have loot 3 was empty. I don't like hacking that much to hack 7 cans everytime i get on site. Argument that there are douchebags out there is lame. This sites are way too easy. There are no real threats out there, especially in null. Is it courtesy that you are destroying on double-fail? If you don't you would be shooting your own foot. Hell i would even agree to respawn site after cherrypicked.

Shiva Darksun wrote:
I heard that so many times it's stupid. It might not take YOU that long, because hey, everyone and their dog seem to be experts in everything, but it might take others long enough. I watched, cloaked, as a guy was trying to hack cans in a data site and failed all but two. Then he was caught by a Saber bubble and killed.

And he was in what? heron? D-scan? Do you really think hacking needs rocket science to learn? Hardest cans are all but some luck to hack, lesser ones with t2 are almost 100% hackable. This is way too easy, if we are going to even more nerf it nothing will last. I started exploring with really hardcore preodyssey mode. F*** i'm missing that times now with posts like yours. And no its not about the loot it's about the things needs to be done to get it. Now it's grind like in wow, instead of 12 birds to kill i have 12 cans to hack, same level of hardness.

Shiva Darksun wrote:
Car analogy: if you're a great driver, don't scoff at or dismiss everyone else who isn't. People are different.

Then learn to drive and don't post speed limits for those who can.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#323 - 2014-11-06 21:47:00 UTC
Shiva Darksun wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:

you are not the first to defend cherry picking so my they stands as I lump all cherry picker defenders into the same group

Cherry picking needs someone to do it. Denying that activity to one is denying scanning for all. I, for one, hack the most valuable cans and then double-fail all others as a courtesy. Making them unscannable diminishes my entertainment because there are douchebags out there. Therefore, I oppose it, it's as simple as that.

Lady Rift wrote:

edit: and it really doesn't take long to hack a can or fail twice in the hack.


I heard that so many times it's stupid. It might not take YOU that long, because hey, everyone and their dog seem to be experts in everything, but it might take others long enough. I watched, cloaked, as a guy was trying to hack cans in a data site and failed all but two. Then he was caught by a Saber bubble and killed.

Car analogy: if you're a great driver, don't scoff at or dismiss everyone else who isn't. People are different.



The guy needed to train the skills to do it properly. Ya i can do it faster than most but that's cause I've invested time and isk into the profession (all lv 5 skills +implants). The faster/better you learn to do it the less risk you are at which is the way eve should work/does work.

Denying cherry picking doesn't deny scanning for all just those that want to use it in relics and data sites many other uses of the scanner.

Yes there are douchebags out there which is the whole reason these cans should be unscannable.
Shiva Darksun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#324 - 2014-11-06 23:48:45 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:

Yes there are douchebags out there which is the whole reason these cans should be unscannable.


"There are douchebags out there so non-consensual PvP should be outlawed"
"There are douchebags out there so scamming should be outlawed"
"There are douchebags out there so awoxing should be bannable"
"...wardecs should be outlawed"
"...suicide ganking should be impossible"

See the trend? "I dislike it therefore it should go away" - it really doesn't work that way.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#325 - 2014-11-07 00:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
Shiva Darksun wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:

Yes there are douchebags out there which is the whole reason these cans should be unscannable.


"There are douchebags out there so non-consensual PvP should be outlawed"
"There are douchebags out there so scamming should be outlawed"
"There are douchebags out there so awoxing should be bannable"
"...wardecs should be outlawed"
"...suicide ganking should be impossible"

See the trend? "I dislike it therefore it should go away" - it really doesn't work that way.




your the one saying douchebags exist out there. I'm saying give them more of a chance to catch things in the sites.

there is suppose to be risk with being in low/null/wh isn't there? if you want to spend all day in a site hacking it then stay in high sec
Patrick Berlin
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#326 - 2014-11-07 02:47:22 UTC
Have the expedition changes been done? I still have had a lot of broken triggers, no boss spawns or no hints on which structures to trigger as it said in the dev post?

pewpew
Franceska Danes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2014-11-07 13:00:28 UTC
I am totally confirm, that Data sites is the same useless in ISK per hour even after phoebe update.
I hacked more than 30 data sites and got 0 of any faction materials.
And ofcourse 0 of faction POS BPC.

And, the most interresting part, i got 0 of any "Optimized" decryptor. Lol, even before update, i had more chanse to get "Optimized" items.

So what do we have? We have absolutely the same useless Data sites, that worth about 10% of ISK per hour comparing to Relic sites.
Shiva Darksun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#328 - 2014-11-07 15:50:48 UTC
Franceska Danes wrote:
I am totally confirm, that Data sites is the same useless in ISK per hour even after phoebe update.
I hacked more than 30 data sites and got 0 of any faction materials.
And ofcourse 0 of faction POS BPC.

And, the most interresting part, i got 0 of any "Optimized" decryptor. Lol, even before update, i had more chanse to get "Optimized" items.

So what do we have? We have absolutely the same useless Data sites, that worth about 10% of ISK per hour comparing to Relic sites.


Interesting. i haven't started yet, because of very little time to spend in EVE, doing mostly inventions and manufacturing, but I'll try and do an exploration roam later today.
Credacom
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#329 - 2014-11-09 03:19:21 UTC
CCP, please fix data sites. Just hacked 30 cans in a C5 and LITERALLY got less than 3m from the data hacked cans. Really?

Why did you make data cans in C6,5,4 worthless? This is not fun.......
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#330 - 2014-11-09 12:12:06 UTC
I see there was no buff to data sites in drone lands...
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#331 - 2014-11-10 13:22:47 UTC
Shiva Darksun wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:

Yes there are douchebags out there which is the whole reason these cans should be unscannable.


"There are douchebags out there so non-consensual PvP should be outlawed"
"There are douchebags out there so scamming should be outlawed"
"There are douchebags out there so awoxing should be bannable"
"...wardecs should be outlawed"
"...suicide ganking should be impossible"

See the trend? "I dislike it therefore it should go away" - it really doesn't work that way.

Sadly it's exactly how it works.
Look. CCP disliked the fact ppl don't buy enough plex. And we got Phoebe.
Not shure i should include CCP in the cathegory "douchebags" or "gods", but at a closer look, you will see somewhat similar behaviours on the two of them.LolLolLol
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#332 - 2014-11-10 13:25:25 UTC
Btw.
Buffing loot tables willruin the market. (Does absolutely NOT matter what loot they buff)
Tears will flow.
Ppl will unsub.
Someone will get a new job.
http://i.imgur.com/3RZ7jD8.jpg?1
And this will make us really happy. Maybe manage to get some people to come back to game.
Sam Spock
The Arnold Connection
#333 - 2014-11-11 17:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sam Spock
I would think that the increased chances of finding escalations should decrease the number of scanable versions of those. I found three escalations to Guristas Scout Outpost yesterday in one hour from hideaway/refuge sites. Nice find but if they are too common then the the loot from 4/10 sites will crash while the 3/10 stays stable since nothing escalates to it. Already saw some of that with the current prices of all of the Pithum C-Types crashing.

Seems rather imbalanced to me.

I think the next pass should change what these escalate to to keep one from being totally nerfed. Hideaways should go to 2/10, Refuge to 3/10 and Den to 4/10. The flavors of the Hideaways should go to random 1/10 to 5/10.

In theory the Burrow should be the 2/10 because I have seen it listed as second to the Hideaway in difficulty but that makes no sense since it only has the easiest type of rat and only shows up in .9 and 1.0 systems.


Edit: Probably not easy to do but perhaps if you set the escalation to take away an existing scanable one that has not yet been warped to that could fix the issue.

Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!
CALAMYTY DIVA
THE RUDER OF THE BUCCANEERS
#334 - 2014-11-12 15:57:40 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Whee! Exploration loot!

About this:
"These combined changes should help somewhat in bringing this ‘hidden’ content to the surface for you to enjoy."

There is another change you might want to consider. Many times the content is not hidden, its just placed in low sec. Many players see no reason to go to low sec for riches that they can more easily get by running another L4 mission in high sec. The result is the content you have created, although not hidden, is not seen. I feel this is bad design. Consider having expeditions that start in high sec stay in high sec.

Also make sure that low sec explorers get better stuff.

Edit: I saw another post on this below. Apparently the same issue occurs in low sec, with excursions sending you to null. Again people just don't do them, as dealing with null is not what they want to do in this game. And again, it's content that is not seen.



Agreed, I like exploration. But exactly as you said, when expedition takeing me to low sec, I simply dont go, because when I tryed in most situation I just lose my ship to other players wich scan me down, or simply catch at gate.
I am simply not strenght and experienced enough to go there, so I leave these expeditions, and thats really sad when it is something like 5th stop and you did sso many jumps.....
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#335 - 2014-11-13 07:27:55 UTC
I don't think reducing expendition jumps to 2-10 was enough. I had few of them with last pocket in low-sec and in all cases it was 9 jumps and more (propably because last pockets must be 2-10 jumps near lowsec). The escalation pockets are far too easy so it was like 1 min fight to 10 min jumping around (i was doing it with cruiser, it would be even more boring in BC). I had one that didn't escalate to last and i was left in space almost 30 jumps from my original exploration zone. More like jumping not fighting.

Also the term "Boss" means what? Last boss in expedition? Warp gate guardian in BR DED4 monastery (drops loot too, apparently not for me)?

CALAMYTY DIVA wrote:
Agreed, I like exploration. But exactly as you said, when expedition takeing me to low sec, I simply dont go, because when I tryed in most situation I just lose my ship to other players wich scan me down, or simply catch at gate.

If you can afford it and have skills for, try Stratios, or covert T3. Also always make some safe spots in expedition system, and d-scan all time for combat probes.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
#336 - 2014-11-14 13:29:11 UTC
Ok, I'm going to pile on with everyone else here but yes, data sites I think are even worse than before (if that's possible). I haven't hacked hundreds but the 20-30 I have done since the release have mostly been worthless with the most valuable ones with multiple decryptors and datacores are worth 2-3 mil. One relic sites in Stain can go for 50, 100 and sometimes 150+! So you'd have to run 20-30 data sites to one relic site to make the same ISK. It just isn't worth it!

Please fix this!!
Franceska Danes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#337 - 2014-11-14 19:30:33 UTC
Nostromo Fidanza wrote:
Ok, I'm going to pile on with everyone else here but yes, data sites I think are even worse than before (if that's possible). I haven't hacked hundreds but the 20-30 I have done since the release have mostly been worthless with the most valuable ones with multiple decryptors and datacores are worth 2-3 mil. One relic sites in Stain can go for 50, 100 and sometimes 150+! So you'd have to run 20-30 data sites to one relic site to make the same ISK. It just isn't worth it!

Please fix this!!

Please quiet!!! or they will nerf exploration completely...
MBizon Osis
Doomheim
#338 - 2014-11-17 08:41:49 UTC
Null security Data sites are not worth the time it takes to scan them down and mini-game open the cans. I have prolly run 50 or 60 Data sites sense the patch. I had high hopes and trusted CCCP Phantom at his word, "on November 4th, we are going to improve the relative value of Data Sites".
In the same time I know of at lest 2 Blood Control Tower BPCs found in High Security Data sites. I have not found any good BPCs of any kind. I did hear CCCP Fozy on Big Counrty's EVE Radio show say that Data sites were not where cccp wants them, so maybe someday we will get the improvement we were told would happen.
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
#339 - 2014-11-17 20:13:30 UTC
I guess my question is if you want to keep data sites worthless that's fine. But why tell us they're being improved and then when we run them they're actually worse. Makes no sense.
Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2014-11-19 05:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Eodp Ellecon
Once or twice a month I scan just to see if it's changed.

Data site loots still fail with cans having just Carbon, or even be empty (x3), and stupid loots remain like Racial Encryption Methods and Launcher Rigging. We still have Parts for Tools (which are also on Industry Window in places even tho removed from the Game) of which there is no apparent use.

The Exploration UI is still larger than necessary for what it's doing and largely obscures the screen of a modest :: non-dual-monitor-my-EVE-is-my-castle--room-size-of-ENIAC-computer :: screen.

Next scan late December. Not enough change to entice training or time yet.

Regards,
Eo