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Wormholes

 
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Wormhole PvE suggestions, ideas.

First post
Author
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-11-11 16:01:49 UTC
I don't really like the idea of adding more escalations. If the low class sites need to be more valuable then simply increase the loot drops or the number of sleepers in the last wave.

I like the idea for the officer sleeper but i think there should be a chance of these spawning wherever you fully complete a site. The number of bodyguards should increase for every player in the site but they shouldn't drop any (or very little) loot. It would be cool if they dropped existing items like ascendancy implants also.

Also, please read THIS
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#22 - 2014-11-11 16:19:32 UTC
Random is good

Sleeper officers ala burner rats is a great idea but should be something that can occur in any class wormhole from completion of any site. It could promote more PvP-like fits for PvE runners and would all around be a nice addition to PvE. Make them drop loot like a much higher level sleeper. The chances of you getting and introducing new "sleeper faction" modules is probably highly unlikely (no offense) so concentrate on standard, but increased loot drops. This could be extended to all PvE sites and even ore/gas anoms.

Add potential "respawns" to ore and gas anomalies and randomize the timer. The static 20 minute(ish) timer means the site is a known quantity and once cleared, is safe for endless harvesting.

Anything that you can come up with to make PvE scale with the people involved would go a long way to improving the quality of PvE efforts. It is not an easy nut to crack. I don't like escalations as the answer as it often simply draws a line in the sand to say "bring this many people for optimal farming". Anything less than that is locked out.

I'd like to see something more adaptive. Warp in two players? One segment of each wave randomly doubles in quantity. Warp in a ship using remote reps? A wave of random neut sleepers possibly spawns which focus on logistics using ships. Once you start to layer these things up, warping in 4 players with remote reps could result in a significant increase in targets, DPS, and difficulty without the static "do this, get that" play of the typical escalation. Maybe this is outside the realm of the existing tools but I think pushing towards that type of semi-random changes to sites resulting in increased loot drops/targets would go a long way to making PvE more interesting.
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#23 - 2014-11-11 16:22:58 UTC
The main thing that feels off to me about cap escalations is that you can repeat them. Once it's started or done, that should be it. And provide an additional incentive to finish those off by moving some of the guardians (like 2 or so) from cap escalation waves to a 3rd reinforcement wave (at least I remember 2 being there right....it is early and I am tired).

I think most are ok with lower tier wh space getting some sort of escalation.
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#24 - 2014-11-11 16:26:18 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
Random is good
Anything that you can come up with to make PvE scale with the people involved would go a long way to improving the quality of PvE efforts. It is not an easy nut to crack. I don't like escalations as the answer as it often simply draws a line in the sand to say "bring this many people for optimal farming". Anything less than that is locked out.


only thing i don't like about that is that it breaks the natural barrier for mega corps/alliances in wh space. I like that it's hard for larger organizations to live off of their home. It provides an additional incentive for smaller corps to form and live outside of those structures.
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-11-11 16:28:40 UTC
Rage rolling will generally become a thing of the past after all the farmers move out (that haven't already).
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#26 - 2014-11-11 16:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Obil Que
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:
Obil Que wrote:
Random is good
Anything that you can come up with to make PvE scale with the people involved would go a long way to improving the quality of PvE efforts. It is not an easy nut to crack. I don't like escalations as the answer as it often simply draws a line in the sand to say "bring this many people for optimal farming". Anything less than that is locked out.


only thing i don't like about that is that it breaks the natural barrier for mega corps/alliances in wh space. I like that it's hard for larger organizations to live off of their home. It provides an additional incentive for smaller corps to form and live outside of those structures.


An upper cap on the "random" wouldn't be hard to do. I'm just not a fan of more static content in an already static PvE environment. I appreciate the effort to make the escalations work for as little as 2 pilots but I'd love to see work put into randomizing instead.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-11-11 18:19:48 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
Random is good

The chances of you getting and introducing new "sleeper faction" modules is probably highly unlikely


you say this but in the recent dev blog there is new weapons coming out.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#28 - 2014-11-11 18:32:08 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Obil Que wrote:
Random is good

The chances of you getting and introducing new "sleeper faction" modules is probably highly unlikely


you say this but in the recent dev blog there is new weapons coming out.


I think what CCP wants to do, they do
I think proposing new modules as part of a PvE fix/enhancement/etc is less likely to occur and I would fear that any proposal that relies upon "new items" at it's core would then be looked on less favorably than simply extending existing items. New items have significant ripple effects in their application and thus require much more work to introduce vs. just dropping "stuff"

Truth is, when talking about worth, I don't care if a green item drops or a blue loot, just that it has value.

Teleil Zoomers
Royal Sphynx Ltd
#29 - 2014-11-11 19:30:41 UTC
great ideas for the mini escalations.

would like to see the isk buffed up a little bit.

if you are going to field that many ships to run a mini escalation then at c4 being the highest 50m doesnt seem like a whole lot per pilot for the trouble.
Chesterfield Fancypantz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-11-12 01:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Chesterfield Fancypantz
Now this is a thread that I have been encouraged to post my/corbex suggestion for capital escalation fixes.


Remove the capital escalation value added and instead put it into the base site to be given at the end of clearing the entire site totally (non escalation waves). There would also need to be a slight boost to the base site income to encourage people to raid static.

What this does is leaves the payout relatively the same but creating a risk/reward system to create some conflict about getting that much money. Either you take the 700+base site payout the first day, and clear the site, or you take a risk of it being stolen from you on your off time.

What I feel that this would do, is not only reduce the amount of money that bears make who really shouldn't be in c5s, but encourage people to raid their static trying to find people who have been running capital sites and leaving them.

An under rated side effect of this is the fights between the major groups. If hard knocks connects to lazerhawks, they can just go into their sites with t3's and clear them. This creates content from the major groups by giving something worth while to fight over, especially fights in home systems which dont really happen.

I think the most important part about this change is that it should encourage people to get into the statics more to be a way of consistently making high money, rather then just closing out your wormholes and doing some quick capital escalations. Mid/low level bears CAN STILL make money even high money, but it isnt basically risk free any more. Mid level groups (like mine) would likely two/three day escalate and take some risk while taking a good influx of money.
Rei Moon
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-11-12 03:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rei Moon
.nvm
is Chester the new chitsa? I mean, nerf cap escalations just because we are already to rich right so who cares for the guys that started last week. Can with isk? nope.

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"

Elyas Crux
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-11-12 07:52:30 UTC
Non-harvestable Gas clouds in combat anomalies are overly mean to graphics cards compared to the other decorations eg. large-collidables. Sorry to not name specific anomalies but they are used in many.
Chesterfield Fancypantz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-11-12 08:25:23 UTC
Elyas Crux wrote:
Non-harvestable Gas clouds in combat anomalies are overly mean to graphics cards compared to the other decorations eg. large-collidables. Sorry to not name specific anomalies but they are used in many.


I would post this into the "pve small things" rather then this post. This is more theory crafting ways to fix PvE, rather then a simple change like yours.

No offense.
SwagYolo420
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2014-11-12 09:07:40 UTC
Farming static sites? Did everyone forget how to expo?
Ridvanson
#35 - 2014-11-12 09:11:40 UTC
corbexx wrote:


1 Arrow Lower the capital escalations in C5 to 2 waves of 6 sleeper guardians, and C6 to 2 waves of 9. Then adding a can at the end of the site, that appears when all the none capital escalation waves are cleared (sleeper store house, what ever) that can be salvaged for approx 350m in blue books and salvage.

This would lower the reliance on capital escalations and encourage people in to there static to farm these sites.



Just to be clear: the can at the end of the site appears regardless of capitals being warped in, right?

How about you make it 3 waves of 7/9 guardians for C5/C6 respectively and make the can at the end have 150-200m? Otherwise the balance would be pretty out of whack imho.

corbexx wrote:

2 Arrow Make the capital escalation waves spawn in random points around the site and remove 1 sleeper guardian from each capital escalation and replace it with 3 cruisers and 4 frigates( numbers could be increased or decreased), that orbit at 30km and point.

This would mean smart bombing all waves and warping to where the capital escalation spawn would be alot harder and that you would potentially need sub capital support.


I don't like this idea. ~30 more small ships too shoot and salvage? :effort: Waiting for guardians to get into my optimal? I really don't want to spend more time on PVE, why do you want to make us do so?

C5/C6 space doesn't get any more luring to people when it's made more annoying. C5 especially is a desolate place already ...

tl;dr idea no1 kind of makes sense to me, idea no2 is just a plain nerf, that's not what wh-space needs (or what a wh CSM should advocate for, anyway ;))

Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#36 - 2014-11-12 10:23:05 UTC
Based on the information available here:

http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php?supergroup=23

which I have found nothing to discredit thus far, is it time for sleepers to be rebalanced? In the interests of fairness to other NPCs in the game sleepers aren't particularly hard they just seem to have a lot of HP.

I note that there is nearly no RR in the lower class wormholes. Neuting is also fairly neglible with the peak neuting occuring in a c3 anom I think peaking at like 16gj/s. Webbing and scramming are more commonplace but not really noticable.

Now obviously as you go C4 and higher this story changes but if wormholes are now a point of developer focus (due to their obviously neglected and underdeveloped nature) then perhaps as part of a comprehensive, longer term wormhole revision we can look at these NPCs themselves.

Blue loot was buffed to make the rewards of living in lower class holes better and for this reason I am getting and seeing a lot of questions related to lower class holes where previously no interest was expressed at all. But there is a caveat which I would say is that certainly some parts of the space could be made harder, just to drive home the point of this space.

Now I don't claim to have years and years of experience in wormholes but I have for the last 6 months lived variously between C1s and C3's in different capacities.

To start with I would broadly propose that CCP create 1 new kind of anomoly per class of wormhole that is a bit harder than normal, say perhaps in the mid-difficulty range of the next highest class of wormhole.

This would allow C1's to have one site that spawns a battleship, without escalating (which might require more people than the group can field). And so forth. These sites would also feature a higher degree of webbing/neuting than normal, possibly as much as or more than the amount expressed inside of the class it's emulating.

The ultimate objective of this kind of introduced anomaly would be to provide more challenge to people within their current residences that might not have the numbers available to proc an escalation but otherwise can handle the sites in their home hole relatively easily. It could also present a milestone for smaller groups building up membership, they would complete this site and then guage whether or not based on their success whether or not they have the capacity to upgrade their hole class. All from the ease of their home hole.

I feel that in the interest of fairness, loot should be comparable to the same mid-level anomaly from the next higher class and that clearance times should be similar for a given fleet size that would be used in the next higher class. This is not simply a port of a higher level anomaly in to a lower class hole - that would be easy but raise balancing issues. You might as well upgrade your hole at that point not to mention the jump from c2-c3 is larger than from c1-c2.

It's just food for thought.
Levina Windstar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-11-12 13:58:26 UTC
I'm not sure about adding escalations in C1 to C4.

As you may know, C1 to C4 corp are made of meaby 1-7 ppl and not all of them are online at the same time.

What I would suggest tho is since C4 is considered as a "high end WH" (no K-space static), I would like to have escalation in C4 only. Here is an idea how t trigger it :

Escalation trigger by 4+BS or 1 Marauder.

I think this seams more doable and like I said, my only concern is the number of people needed for escalation in lower class WH.

"I can make billions using my mouth ...

... and sometimes when I talk, too" --- Solecist Project

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#38 - 2014-11-12 14:20:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Edit: moved for splurging. Replace with flag stating "Corbexx for leader of wormholes, should be hired By ccp and named CCP Wspace".

Yaay!!!!

corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-11-12 15:10:54 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Obil Que wrote:
Random is good

The chances of you getting and introducing new "sleeper faction" modules is probably highly unlikely


you say this but in the recent dev blog there is new weapons coming out.


The problem with this Corbexx

Quoted from the dev blog.

Quote:
The modules are Tech II, meta-level 9 modules. They thus have the same skill requirements as Tech II, but they also benefit from the specialization skills. They require their Tech II counterpart to manufacture


This isn't a wormhole space weapon. This is a weapon made from K-space materials (you need the T2 weapon to build it). In addition, it requires T2 skills (not noob friendly which is ok), and the price won't be very friendly.

If this was a true wormhole space weapon/equipment, it should only be built from the stuff you can farm out of the wormhole. Which is Sleeper Salvage, Ore, Gas. These new "Polarized" weapons requires T2 components, which is moongoop, which wormholes have 0 of. Do I want moon goop. HELL NO. wormholes should be able to produce a set of weapons that are created purely from wormhole space.

Good Slogan.

Made in Wormhole space, From Wormhole Land, by Wormholers.

Bad Slogan
Blueprint in Wormhole space, Made in Lowsec, With Nullsec Moongoop.

You see the problem. This new weapon system is not for wormholers, because its completely made with products wormholers have zero access to.

Not made in wormhole space? Do Not Want.



argh some times i ******* give up. I really do.

first i'm not saying anywhere these are sleeper weapons.

obil que says the chances of getting new sleeper modules are highly unlikely. I reply that there is new weapons coming out. Showing that ccp is putting new modules in the game and implying its no where near as highly unlikely as he thought.

You would notice in the inital ideas I said made from sleeper stuff. Seriously I know those guns arent made from sleeper stuff if they were I'd have made a huge ******* point of saying that. This is what I mean with people digging way to much in to **** and not looking at the general concept.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#40 - 2014-11-12 15:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
No need to get mad corbexx. I can be particularly hard headed. Been putting those ideas in every thread about polarized weapons since they were announced.

No one wants you to give up. You are doing an amazing job and we all know it. You are open and upfront with the community and put your heart into the game. For that we all thank you for your hard work.

Don't take my post as any type of attack. You can treat it more like propoganda than anything else. I'll edit the above as it should be in a different thread.

Yaay!!!!