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Running Pirate Epic Mission Arcs: Assistance for Newer Players
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Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2011-12-14 23:29:44 UTC
Running Pirate Epic Mission Arcs: Assistance for Newer Players

I guess I am a pirate arc veteran, having now run them on several dozen occasions, so I reckon it's time to try help some of our less experienced fellows.

Last night I was chatting with a newer player who wanted to give the pirate arcs a try but was not confident that his skillbook skills or ingame experience-base were adequate. I think he was right, but in a few more weeks he will probably be ok skillbook wise.

During our chat I offered to help him run one of them the first time round, and now I am extending that offer to other newer players who would like to try but are not confident re their skills. If you find this idea attractive please mail me ingame so we can discuss details and make plans

My next access to Angel Sound comes up in mid-January so that is the likely time window I'll be looking at. I will list below the things I think you will need to have achieved before starting out on this arc, and how I see the assistance / support working.

No doubt some folk are gonna scream that this is a scam / setup and that I am just lulling noobs into nullsec for the ganking. Please check my background and past postings, and the comments other have made, and form your own opinion on the likelihood of that. Same goes for intending accusers, please check my background before making any knee-jerk scam or gank accusations ... it's just not my style.

Cost? Undecided. I may charge something for this but since it's aimed at relatively new players I doubt it's going to be much ... perhaps just enough to get your attention and filter out time-wasters.

Cheers
Subs

______________________________________________________________


Which arc, and why?

Angel Sound. The nullsec access to the mission hub, in Curse, is easier for Angel Sound than for Smash & Grab.

Angel Sound is the (slightly) more lucrative of the two pirate arcs. The encounter missions themselves are no tougher, or easier, in Angel Sound. The PvP activity is usually more intensive in Curse than in Venal.


How would it work?

I would:
1. Help with advice concerning ship setup, starter agent access etc.
2. Escort small groups into the mission hub area, acting as your scout and helping you get through the tougher nullsec bottlenecks. This would probably happen mid-week, although for people in markedly different time-zones the weekends may be our only overlap.
3. Scout some of your initial travel around Curse ... and keep a watch out for station and gate bubbles for you.
4. Give you some DPS assistance if you really need it - You shouldn't!


What will you need?

Skills to fly and fight a decent frigate.

The arcs **can** be completed in a t1 frigate but it's not a pushover. The best ship I have used to-date has been the wolf, with ishkur second. I haven't yet tried caldari AF but will do so next time round.

I suggest either: 1. An assault frigate with mid-range or better weapon and support skills; or 2. A top-tier T1 frigate with very good (T2) weapon and support skills. Interceptors are ok, but slower than assault frigates. Dramiels and the like are ok, but slower than assault frigates. Stealth Bombers are ok but I am not certain that the acceleration gate on the last mission will admit a stealth bomber.

Destroyers are probably ok, but I have not tried any and they tend not to be terribly strong in the tank department.

Desirable to also have the ability to fit T2 nanos, T2 cloak (non covops), & T2 warp stabs. The ability to fly a covops frigate, and to covops cloak, will be helpful in accessing the lowsec starter agent.

Some skill at methods useful in nullsec

Knowledge of, and practice at align-cloak-MWD-uncloak-warp procedure for GTFO against unbubbled gate camps.

Understanding of how bubbles work.

A jump-clone or three

For a newer player to run these arcs safely a degree of patience is going to be necessary. That could include not trying to do much during a busier weekend. To do that without too much hassle it's desirable to be able to clone-jump back to your 'normal' activities from time to time.

Once you're more savvy to the pirate arcs you can blitz away the next time :-)

Also, given the risk of getting killed and podded, you would be unwise to run the arc for the first time in a clone with expensive implants ... and having a cheaper jumpclone is the best way to do that.

Standings to access the starter agent.

To run the Angel Sound arc you will need adequate standings to access one of the starter agents. Specifically that will be one, or more, of the following:

1. Access to Republic Security Services (RSS) level 3 agent. Standings of 3 or more with either RSS corporation or Minmatar Republic faction **and** standings not -2 or worse with either of them.

2. Access to Amarr Imperial Navy (AN) level 3 agent. Standings of 3 or more with either AN corporation or Amarr faction **and** standings not -2 or worse with either of them.

3. Access to Dominations level 3 agent. Standings of 3 or more with either Dominations corporation or Angel Cartel faction **and** standings not -2 or worse with either of them.




I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#2 - 2011-12-15 00:12:40 UTC
Interesting, and good luck, as someone well versed in nullsec missions, I am glad to see more people getting into it, perhaps if enough do, CCP will take a look at some of the problems with PVE in nullsec

and by that I do not mean getting killed by players or difficulty I like that part, I mean generally weak LP stores, fairly low DED tag prices since they are sold to NPC buy orders having no use for players AFAIK, and the fact that rats from the faction you are working for will warp into your mission in deadspace, and attack you for mining in your mission, and many more issues)

I do find it interesting though, you found the wolf better than the Ishkur at running these mission which in my experience has no equal in PVE, may I ask if the wolf fit, was an all damage fit, or a fit with long range, or something else?

Also, I see you haven't tried the Caldari AFs yet, have you tried the Worm yet? For newer players with drone skills, it may tank easier than the ishkur though, I couldn't imagine it would be all that fast at running the missions.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-12-15 00:14:10 UTC
Nice, good luck with this new venture.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2011-12-15 00:59:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
Thanks, both.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Nice, good luck with this new venture.


Not really a new venture. I see it more as an extension to an existing venture.

Likely spinoffs, as I see it, are all positive. Probably some more income for me from the primary venture. More people venturing into nullsec to run those arcs and thereby getting nullsec exposure - and isk. Some of them getting 'bitten' by the nullsec bug and moving there. More player througput into those areas of null will also mean more (not entirely willing) potential PvP targets and more commerce for the regions. Win-win-win all round.

ValentinaDLM wrote:
Interesting, and good luck, as someone well versed in nullsec missions, I am glad to see more people getting into it, perhaps if enough do, CCP will take a look at some of the problems with PVE in nullsec


I agree. I reckon my pirate arc advocacy, now and in the past, can only help nullsec ... including along the lines mentioned above.

I'm no PvP guru but I do really enjoy the cat-and-mouse that goes on when some 'local' decides they want me on their killmail list. Unfortunately, for them, I gain a perverse pleasure in seeing how long I can string them along ... thinking they'll get a kill ... before they give up. I reckon that will just make the inevitable kill all the more rewarding for them :-)

ValentinaDLM wrote:
I do find it interesting though, you found the wolf better than the Ishkur at running these mission which in my experience has no equal in PVE, may I ask if the wolf fit, was an all damage fit, or a fit with long range, or something else?

Also, I see you haven't tried the Caldari AFs yet, have you tried the Worm yet? For newer players with drone skills, it may tank easier than the ishkur though, I couldn't imagine it would be all that fast at running the missions.


My arc wolf fit is pretty ganky. T2 200s blast, AB, a couple of gyros, MSE / DC / nano and offline mod in middle hislot. I started with a T2 rocket launcher in hi but dropped it to fit second gyro and get more DPS as a result even with that 'empty' slot. The main difference between my wolf and ishkur was simply the speed with which the NPCs were destroyed. Neither ship came under serious threat of dying, unless I messed something up, but the wolf just locked and near instakilled most everything.

I started to fit a worm for my last attempt but never got to anything I particularly liked ... so I went in with a rifter. I tried arties in rifter, to start, but that was utter fail and I switched back to a mini-version of my wolf fit with T2 A/Cs.

Chances are that I was not getting the best out of the ishkur. My skillbook skills are good but I do not have a lot of fitting experience for drone boats or hybrids. My ishkur was a probably more a 'sniper' setup, lots of drone mods with a little bit of added DPS from T2 rails.

Wolf was the best I've used and, as a result, the ship i have used most often. Jaguar was good, but wolf better - DPS. Ishkur was good, but wolf better - DPS. Dramiel was ok, but slow - DPS and tank if not careful. Interceptors ok, but slow - DPS again and tank if not careful. Rifter was achievable but slow - tank and DPS both.

I’m also no caldari AF expert. Would you suggest harpy or hawk? To my inexpert eye it looks like I’d run harpy like my wolf, in close, and the hawk like my ishkur, at range.
Taranis will also have to go on the give-it-a-try list I think.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#5 - 2011-12-15 01:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ValentinaDLM
Substantia Nigra wrote:


I’m also no caldari AF expert. Would you suggest harpy or hawk? To my inexpert eye it looks like I’d run harpy like my wolf, in close, and the hawk like my ishkur, at range.
Taranis will also have to go on the give-it-a-try list I think.


I did have good luck with an MSB Hawk running Gurista's 3/10 that my dual rep malediction was having trouble with, but it was pretty dependent on navy cap boosters, and had an AB, all in all while it could tank like something else (of course, carrying around a gang link alt could have alot to do with that) it isn't terribly quick at anything, and for the pirate epic arc missions you really don't need that much tank, so for me it would be hard to see a use for it, combine that with the not so great range of rockets and the terrible DPS or standard missles, and it doesn't look all that great.

So yeah, I would go harpy all the way, the DPS is significantly more, and you can still work a reasonable fit with MSE and reasonable DPS, though, in most situations where I thought I would love the harpy I found my enyo doing a bit better, probably more due to it's tracking than anything, though after the recent hybrid buff I would be excited to see the capabilities of the harpy and enyo, but I haven't really had the chance.

As far as the ranis goes, I have only really used on in PVE once.... and somehow the picture made it to the net: ranis
Needless to say it wasn't good at that role, but I don't see why a ranis couldn't work out even if it would be a bit slower at completing missions than some ships.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-12-15 05:42:26 UTC
MSB Hawk is pretty awesome, plus you have a utility slot to try and sneak a NOS on.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#7 - 2011-12-16 07:31:43 UTC
I use a Crow with 3 standard launchers T2 and a little tank, Even with my cepter skill being 3 the missiles go very far and your oh so fast. 3 T2 launchers w/ navy ammo will do the DPS you need. and being a cepter w/ long range missiles should you catch a bubble you can run and if there cepter chases just shoot as you run, never had any one chase after 2 volleys (except pre patch drams don't know if they still would)

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2011-12-16 14:28:58 UTC
While I'm not doubting your intentions, if you take people into low sec and null sec, you should teach them to never trust people who take them in to low sec and null sec. Don't teach them that lesson the hard way. Blink
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#9 - 2011-12-16 14:50:47 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
I use a Crow with 3 standard launchers T2 and a little tank, Even with my cepter skill being 3 the missiles go very far and your oh so fast. 3 T2 launchers w/ navy ammo will do the DPS you need. and being a cepter w/ long range missiles should you catch a bubble you can run and if there cepter chases just shoot as you run, never had any one chase after 2 volleys (except pre patch drams don't know if they still would)


This is how I did them. Didn't have a problem.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2011-12-16 17:32:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
While I'm not doubting your intentions, if you take people into low sec and null sec, you should teach them to never trust people who take them in to low sec and null sec. Don't teach them that lesson the hard way. Blink


Yes, that's an eternal conundrum in eve isn't it?

The first thing anyone sensible will teach a new player, is never to trust anyone ... no matter how well intentioned and sensible they seem.

As a smalltime purveyor of trust-based products it's difficult to get established. It will only take one "she scammed me" or "she lead me into an ambush" accusation, even a false one, and you're worse off than starting from scratch. I figure that if you chart the right course, gradually over time your honest / helpful rep will establish and grow.

What I have tried to do is:
- Make great products, research them well, and know my stuff;
- Trust others (selectively, but try) ... and, somewhat to my surprise, I have been rarely disappointed;
- Speak well of others. A bit biblical perhaps, and something I have not always achieved; and
- Stick to my guns, even when being hassled and doubted.

Overall that seems to have worked, and positive constructive feedback now far outweighs scammers and knee-jerk doubters.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Ayzn Betokhn
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2011-12-16 17:40:41 UTC
With respect to the stealth bomber issue in the final mission, it used to be true that a stealth bomber was prohibited from entry into the final mission of the angel epic arc. That is no longer true. Stealth bombers can enter all the missions now. But my experience was that the change did not help, in that a stealth bomber was no good at completing the final mission in the angel epic arc. Thrashers, hawks, and wolfs all work (and destroyers should be even better post crucible), but trying to finish it in a stealth bomber was disappointing (as in I gave up trying and reshipped).
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2011-12-16 23:01:05 UTC
thanks for the update. I've not tried SB but figured it'd just cope, with tank being the liability ... especially against the fast guys at the end.

Good to know, and yes buffed destroyers would be interesting.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.