Ships & Modules

You mad?

They were fit for travelling, not for pvp. They sacrificed the ability to fight back in exchange for a greater chance of escaping tackle. What exactly are you complaining about?

Actually, you seem pretty mad about loosing the tackle.

Stabs are already nerfed so bad that they are very very rarely used. They don't need a nerf. They are completely useless (and even hurt you) when the enemy has enough points to keep you there anyway, so the few times they can save someone are well deserved, that's the whole point of fitting them.

I understand the frustration, but the penalties for fitting WCS are quite intense already. Looking at your two ideas, the first one (no tackle) is sensible enough, although I'm not sure that there's really enough of a problem with stabbed tacklers to justify it (what was that stabbed alliance-prize frigate killmail again though?). The second idea is a bit silly because of the random-number generator.

Actually, thinking about it a bit more, there is an entire ship class - well, two, really - that get to fit stabs and engage in pvp with no penalties at all. How is this defensible? How do we explain to a poor Rifter pilot that the Aeon or Erebus that he just tackled deserves the right to just warp off or jump out?

Why do supercaps have built-in, penalty-free WCS?

Yeah true, I really honestly don't mind them existing very often, was just trying to come up with new ways for them to operate. I understand everyone's thoughts on why they aren't that bad.

Anyone know how stabs use to work, people mentioned they were nerfed... nerfed from what?

Yeah i agree with this, while they are a counter they are also a total no brainer to use, a camps spends alot of time and effect to catch you, its a bit harsh to have any basic newb just slap on some passive modules and beat them all.

Having to active them like a dcu each time sounds like a fun plan

they had no drawbacks at all (apart from using up a a slot and fitting ofcourse) so many folks fitted them on pvp ships as well and by those standards it's already a whole lot better than it was. Honestly, this whole thread reeks of bawling, just accept that some folks who thought ahead might actually be able to avoid you.

I don't, I just don't see problems if people use them. It's a game of cat and mouse and sometimes the mice get away, being slightly annoyed by that is logical but thinking that this is somehow "wrong" and "must be fixed" is ofcourse nothing more than "buff me, nerf everyone else" :)

It's not like a broadsword is a bad addition to a (roaming) camp so I really don't see the problem.

You think its unfair that sometimes they brought more stabs than you have points...

Look at it from the other point of view - anyone who wants to travel through low sec has no way of knowing what is on the other side of the gate (unless they have a buddy or scout alt, if you are solo, its just a roll of the dice as to whether or not the gate is camped).

If its going to be fair gameplay, when you go out hunting, sometimes you should become the hunted, ie sometimes your prey should end up killing you.

They fit stabs, they are no longer fit to fight back, your risks go down, their risks go down.

If you're going to make stabs chance based, then you should make points chance based.
Then add stacking penalties to points as well as stabs..

Then add +2 and +3 stabs since there are +2 and +3 points

Its already in your favor, consider:
You bring 3 ships, you load them up with points
They bring 3 ships, loaded up with stabs.

Your three ships focus their points on one ship, the stabs on the other 2 ships count for nothing, you get a kill.


Of course, maybe you wanted all 3 ships, then it just comes down to if you fit enough points (a fast ship with 4 meds, can get 8 points on a target rather fast).
It comes down to a fit, just like everything else.
It would be a whole lot easier to PvP if you already knew what the enemy had fit..

You didn't have the right fit to catch your target, deal with it.

*Yes I have used stabs to get away from a gate ambush.
There were about 8 of them, and it was just me and another guy in a CNR, I only had 3 stabs, I don't think the CNR even had that many.
They pointed me first, but the CNR came through the gate (why, I don't know, it was a dumb move on his part, perhaps some of the pirates stayed on the other side of the gate and he was forced to take his chance and jump through, even though I had told him they had me).
They took some points off me, put it on the CNR, I warped away (3 points vs 3 stabs). with 1 point per ship they had, they easily could have had us both.
I guess they piled on extra points on the raven, one for evey low, leaving only 3 on me (if I recall correctly and there were 8 of them, and assuming each one fitted 1 disruptor), and I got away.

They got a CNR, and were happy, we lost a CNR so not so happy. Overall I think the situation was fairly balanced
I think the guys actual fit was 2 stabs, 2 nanos (for faster align), and a DCII.

The stabs simply meant they had to prioritize they prey. They could go for the less valuable ship (standard Apocalypse) with more lows that would potentially take many more points to pin down, or the valuable ship with less lows, allowing them to point it, and still have a chance at me.
It really came down to their distribution of points, and their decision to take 0 risk on the raven getting away, rather than give it a chance to get away while bringing down my chance to get away (again, with a 4:4 point split, they would have had us both, they did 5:3 and only got the CNR).

I lived, I saw the decisions they had to make, it wasn't my CNR, I found it entertaining and was pleased.

No, I'm sorry, I understand the desire to want small gangs to be able to do everything too, but to nerf everything so that it would be viable to be accomplished by a small gang would be foolish, and detrimental to the feel of the game as a whole.

I agree that it would make the DST have a comparatively better bonus, but there should always be things that cant be accomplished by each level of fighter, whether it is the solo fighter, the small gang, or the big blob. It forces you to re-think your strategies, change your tactics, or at the very least bring different soldiers to the battle-field.