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Bit of a dilemma. to pvp or not to pvp...
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Kharamete
Royal Assent
#21 - 2014-11-11 12:00:53 UTC
Jhante Vhael wrote:

Well one of the problems is, I ask for fits sometimes they can give times they say I need to learn it on my own. I don't mind roaming fleets but solo pvp is a different beast altogether. They say fit a frig go die. I don't know what to put on a frig. Where do I fly these types of things.


The reason why they say that is that there are two sides to PvP – the skillpoints you have, and the skill you as an individual have. Many people see the former as important, but in truth the amount of SP you have counts only for slightly more than trivial reasons. It allows you to fly ships and use mods, but that's that.

The important thing is your skill as a player, and in no human activity do you start doing something at expert level right away. You aren't a Marathon runner the day you start thinking about doing a Marathon. You can't be a computer expert the first time that you look at a computer. You can't PvP on your first day in EVE. You need to practise, and you need to do it.

Unless you fly with blobbers who compensate for lack of skill with numbers and alpha, PvP is far more involved than it looks. How to read and execute a fight needs knowledge about how the ships you attack, or who attack you, works. It needs understanding in how weapons work (ie that all ships in Eve are really different sized balls, and that regardless of say a gun, they're all shotguns shooting one pellet at a time and have a shotgun's scatter).

So yeah, your mates are right. You have to go out and do it, and you have to accept that you won't be any good at it the first time you do it.

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-11-11 12:14:17 UTC


Things will be better for you if you don't try to be someone you don't want to be because of peer pressure. If these corpies in null are EVE friends worth making then they will show you how to PVP without judging you for your failures.


You do have to let go of your fear of failing. Lose your first ship, and then your second, and then your tenth. Figure out how to replace them. It's a game and your pilot will always come back after dying in a fire.

And as others have mentioned, you don't have to PVP. But it is possible you may need to find a different set of corpies.

Call me Joe.
Talon Kane
ExeKrab
#23 - 2014-11-11 13:51:37 UTC
Forum PvP - Best PvP !
:P

« I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer ».

♣♣♣ I offer a character pricecheck service ♣♣♣
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#24 - 2014-11-11 14:27:25 UTC
Jhante Vhael wrote:
I am curious though. I've heard there are corps dedicated to teaching newbies pvp. How do they do it? Do they say the same thing? Or do they have pre-fitted ships and let them go at it. I know theres a corp like, red and blue or whatnot thats like that. When I was looking for a corp I am now curoius how they teach their members pvp...


RvB does not really teach PVP, but basicly consists of two alliances permanently at war. This means you will always have a chance to fight, but you will have to educate yourself for the most part.

My corp accepts newbies, but we don't have an official "training" program. We usually have a stack of ships and mods people can use for free, and these get handed out to new players regularly. We usually let them tag along on some frigate roams through FW space, evaluating fights is second nature to us so newbies pick up a lot of theory after shooting someone in practice. In terms of adivice, we usually focus on ship fitting and individual ship properties / bonusses. In our philosophy players will educate themselves if you don't reprimand them when they fail. Failure breeds experience, experience breeds victories. Screw the killboard and have fun!
Othran
Route One
#25 - 2014-11-11 17:05:19 UTC
Jhante Vhael wrote:
Not sure if this goes here but for now it's here.

So I was recently introduced to nullsec. I have been playing off and on since around 2007, major breaks in between. I have little experience with the game. I've always done high sec, mining/pve. I know 0 about pvp. The guys I fly with now all say the best way to get into pvp is to just do it. But I find it's alot more complicated than that.


Its as complicated as you want to make it really. I overthink all this stuff & it doesn't really help unless you're the FC - and rarely then.

Jhante Vhael wrote:
I am only familiar with amarr ships. And pve fits at that. I am at a loss as I am very worried I won't be able to learn pvp and it will reflect on me and those around me. I don't want to feel like I'm a weak link in something that is clearly a major part of the game. There has to be an easier way to learn pvp than that. or if not easier a better way to learn. It took me quite awhile to get the hang of pve, as I am a slow learner and have trouble assimilating information. I'm not entirely sure what to do on this and I want to enjoy pvp but I just don't know if i'm cut out for it. If I'm not do I really have a place in eve?


My corp does some classes - www.agony-unleashed.com - but I think you're worrying too much. Find some people you feel comfortable with & go from there.
Jhante Vhael
Aegex Enterprises
#26 - 2014-11-11 17:20:56 UTC
Grauth Thorner wrote:
Oh and one more thing: if you can, get a designated PvP-alt instead of doing it with your industry-char. This way you always have something to fall back on and you can keep earning ISK with the industry-char to cover your losses in PvP, just in case the income of the PvP-char wouldn't be enough.


Well I can run Sansha Hubs for a decent 20-40m isk per run, even more with the salvage. I don't really do industry. I do mine from time to time and sell the ore, but lately i have been doing hubs and poorly attempting pvp heh.
Jhante Vhael
Aegex Enterprises
#27 - 2014-11-11 17:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhante Vhael
Some of you are talking about solo roam vs fleet roam/gate camps. I've experienced both they are 2 different things almost entirely. Solo pvp you don't have intel to go by and can't know what someone else is flying, on top of the fact if you are flying around a heated area you run the risk of falling into a gate camp. With fleets you have that intel, and a much better idea of what people are flying, where gate camps might be etc...

I have about 23m sp right now, I can fly amarr and mostly caldari. I can only use t2 energy turrets as that is what i trained for over the past few years when i wasn't really looking for a corp and was playing off and on. I still have to work on some necessary skills as most of the eve uni ship fits I can't run due to lack of advanced weapon upgrades. That aside I guess i can only try pvp more.

Out of the few times I've roamed, and it's only been like 3 times so far, I haven't found anyone and i ended up going back home with nothing to show for it. This last time though I had a cruiser and was called to a fight, and i can say i nearly lost the ship lucky for me I didn't but I had the wrong fit as it was a long range type fight and i was in a up close and personal fit.

Another odd thing i noticed, I dont like losing ships. I don't know why I feel this way honestly. I like buying ships, fitting them flying them. Ratting, the thrill and suspense of roaming in hostile territory, even mining. But I've always hated losing ships. I think that is part of the problem, and THAT pat I'm not sure how to really address.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-11-11 18:28:23 UTC
Jhante Vhael wrote:

Another odd thing i noticed, I dont like losing ships. I don't know why I feel this way honestly. I like buying ships, fitting them flying them. Ratting, the thrill and suspense of roaming in hostile territory, even mining. But I've always hated losing ships. I think that is part of the problem, and THAT pat I'm not sure how to really address.

The only advice that I could offer for that, is to fit a bunch of cheap frigates, go out and pvp in them, with the intention being that you are not going back to station until that ship has been destroyed. Don't do intentionally suicidal stuff, like trying to jump a Proteus in an Incursus, but force yourself into a mindset where you are only disengaging if there is literally no chance of winning, or at least getting close.
After a few of those, you should find yourself growing numb to the pain of ship loss on that scale. After that, upgrade to destroyers or cruisers, and repeat the process.
Jhante Vhael
Aegex Enterprises
#29 - 2014-11-11 19:23:25 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Jhante Vhael wrote:

Another odd thing i noticed, I dont like losing ships. I don't know why I feel this way honestly. I like buying ships, fitting them flying them. Ratting, the thrill and suspense of roaming in hostile territory, even mining. But I've always hated losing ships. I think that is part of the problem, and THAT pat I'm not sure how to really address.

The only advice that I could offer for that, is to fit a bunch of cheap frigates, go out and pvp in them, with the intention being that you are not going back to station until that ship has been destroyed. Don't do intentionally suicidal stuff, like trying to jump a Proteus in an Incursus, but force yourself into a mindset where you are only disengaging if there is literally no chance of winning, or at least getting close.
After a few of those, you should find yourself growing numb to the pain of ship loss on that scale. After that, upgrade to destroyers or cruisers, and repeat the process.


Interesting approach. I'll cheap fit a punisher see how it goes :)
Jhante Vhael
Aegex Enterprises
#30 - 2014-11-11 20:58:31 UTC
With a bit of research I found the Tormenter a bit better. I noticed something though when solo roaming today. I prefer fleet pvp to solo :P
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-11-11 21:11:44 UTC
Jhante Vhael wrote:
With a bit of research I found the Tormenter a bit better. I noticed something though when solo roaming today. I prefer fleet pvp to solo :P

I can't say that I blame you there. The ships in Eve all have benefits and drawback to working together in various ways. Plus, since I'm in GSF, ya' know, blob all the things.
Jhante Vhael
Aegex Enterprises
#32 - 2014-11-11 21:21:38 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Jhante Vhael wrote:
With a bit of research I found the Tormenter a bit better. I noticed something though when solo roaming today. I prefer fleet pvp to solo :P

I can't say that I blame you there. The ships in Eve all have benefits and drawback to working together in various ways. Plus, since I'm in GSF, ya' know, blob all the things.


Not familiar with all the lingo, what's blob? :P
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-11-11 21:26:10 UTC
Jhante Vhael wrote:
Not familiar with all the lingo, what's blob? :P

Any group of people with more ships than your group.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-11-11 22:42:23 UTC
In a player-driven game like EVE, the ability to defend what you have from other players is of vital importance, regardless of the security of space you're in. Your options for playing EVE involve learning to defend it, or letting other players walk all over you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-11-12 03:07:15 UTC
Sounds like you're just not into it.... why do it?

I really like PVP in other games, just not EVE PVP and as a result only play the game an hour or so after work, since it's better than watching my wife's HGTV over and over.... but I love her.

I like balance and PVP in this game just doesn't have it for this part time player.

Find a corp of like minded players and validate what you enjoy, and don't let the PVP brethren say you should do it because they like it.
Jhante Vhael
Aegex Enterprises
#36 - 2014-11-12 05:58:38 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Sounds like you're just not into it.... why do it?

I really like PVP in other games, just not EVE PVP and as a result only play the game an hour or so after work, since it's better than watching my wife's HGTV over and over.... but I love her.

I like balance and PVP in this game just doesn't have it for this part time player.

Find a corp of like minded players and validate what you enjoy, and don't let the PVP brethren say you should do it because they like it.





well before I joined the corp I'm in I had absolutely no desire for pvp. Only ratting and maybe DED sites, even though I know nothing about them. When I came across this guy he was starting his corp fresh and after a few fleet doctrine ship pvp I was kind of hooked on pvp. After experiencing solo roam I can say I dont think I'm cut out for it. I prefer being directed and in a group. I wouldn't mind doing like around 5-7 people in frigs/dessies/cruisers. Otherwise I don't think I have what it takes to pvp as a solo player.
Lister Dax
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-11-12 07:29:22 UTC
Don't be put off by losing so much so early into trying solo PvP. Expect to die, lots and lots and lots and lots Big smile If you just don't like it then that's fine there are plenty of places you can find small-gang PvP.

Don't force yourself to like solo PvP just do what you enjoy!
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#38 - 2014-11-12 09:19:26 UTC
Jhante Vhael wrote:


Not familiar with all the lingo, what's blob? :P


It's descriptive name for a big fleet of ships because in warp physics engines makes then to from an uniform 'ball' hence the nick name.

blob
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-11-12 20:44:30 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Jhante Vhael wrote:


Not familiar with all the lingo, what's blob? :P


It's descriptive name for a big fleet of ships because in warp physics engines makes then to from an uniform 'ball' hence the nick name.

blob

Man, I had forgotten all about the old Shield/Armor/Structure bars. Thanks for that link...those modules make me think Maelstrom.
Cypher Decypher
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2014-11-12 22:49:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cypher Decypher
Either with Phoebe or the iteration after, CCP are doing away with a lot of the crap we have to deal with regarding clones and making it far easier - and cheaper - for people to experiment with pvp.

In the meantime why not create a cheap alt and foray into lowsec in a frigate or destroyer, and just have a go?

Remember, after all, as a player you don't have to lay all your reputation on one character. You can easily create another that nobody knows, and go schizo :)
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