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[Rhea] Introducing the Bowhead

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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#421 - 2014-11-11 05:51:10 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Idea is great, but the tank is far too small, 500k ehp minimum to account for the gankers these days. Even JFs are getting blown up.



I missed the memo where JF's were supposed to be immortal...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#422 - 2014-11-11 05:51:28 UTC
Querns wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Idea is great, but the tank is far too small, 500k ehp minimum to account for the gankers these days. Even JFs are getting blown up.

Also need an agility buff to avoid the bumpers, otherwise can be pinned indefinitely and hit by waves of gankers. Unless this ship is reasonably safe, incursion runners won't use it.

Sounds like you need to use escort fleets.


Which means that no one will use them. If the only way to safely avoid the bumper car ganker folks in Uedama is an escort fleet, then these things are useless for incursion runners. Much easier to just move travel fit battleships with cloak + mwd on alts.

Either make these good or dont bother.
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#423 - 2014-11-11 05:51:50 UTC
Querns wrote:
Jadeheart wrote:
Guys, I'm just another dumbass redneck indy pilot that knows ****.

Can someone explain why we need a ore hauler?

It's a ship created by Outer Ring Excavations (ORE), not a hauler of raw asteroid material (ore.)

Or, in case I read that wrong, it's because sometimes it is nice to be able to move more than one fitted ship at once. Carrier havers have been able to do this for years; tugs bring the ability to do it without the lengthy carrier skill investment, as well as the ability to do it in highsec.


More to the point, because CCP likes to release ships under Faction banners when they are not getting different variants for each race (in which case they would be part of the races' ship navies).
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#424 - 2014-11-11 05:53:50 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Querns wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Idea is great, but the tank is far too small, 500k ehp minimum to account for the gankers these days. Even JFs are getting blown up.

Also need an agility buff to avoid the bumpers, otherwise can be pinned indefinitely and hit by waves of gankers. Unless this ship is reasonably safe, incursion runners won't use it.

Sounds like you need to use escort fleets.


Which means that no one will use them. If the only way to safely avoid the bumper car ganker folks in Uedama is an escort fleet, then these things are useless for incursion runners. Much easier to just move travel fit battleships with cloak + mwd on alts.

Either make these good or dont bother.


Use a fleet to counter the actions of a fleet. I'll be making very heavy use of this ship.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#425 - 2014-11-11 05:58:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Use a fleet to counter the actions of a fleet. I'll be making very heavy use of this ship.


Doesn't make any sense.

Currently - I can fly travel fitted battleships with cloak + mwd trick and basically 0% chance of getting ganked.

Now - I can stick 3 ships in a slow freighter with significant chance of gank in uedama, etc... and need an escort fleet to prevent it.

Why on earth would I stick expensive incursion ships in this??? Either it needs to be reasonably safe solo or it would be crazy to use instead of just moving battleships.
Dreiden Kisada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#426 - 2014-11-11 06:04:21 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Use a fleet to counter the actions of a fleet. I'll be making very heavy use of this ship.


Doesn't make any sense.


You're missing the joke.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#427 - 2014-11-11 06:11:57 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Use a fleet to counter the actions of a fleet. I'll be making very heavy use of this ship.


Doesn't make any sense.

Currently - I can fly travel fitted battleships with cloak + mwd trick and basically 0% chance of getting ganked.

Now - I can stick 3 ships in a slow freighter with significant chance of gank in uedama, etc... and need an escort fleet to prevent it.

Why on earth would I stick expensive incursion ships in this??? Either it needs to be reasonably safe solo or it would be crazy to use instead of just moving battleships.


Ill be sticking multi billion isk ships in this thing through null space. Grow a spine and get a few buddies in logi ships to protect this tactical asset.
Pen Ris
Eden Risk Management
Fedaykin.
#428 - 2014-11-11 06:14:18 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?

And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me.



Thanks Rise; three t2 BS seems reasonable and an agility bonus will make the skills more valuable than the speed.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#429 - 2014-11-11 06:21:28 UTC
Pen Ris wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?

And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me.



Thanks Rise; three t2 BS seems reasonable and an agility bonus will make the skills more valuable than the speed.


Speed would help when it comes to burning out of bubbles and agility makes it less vulnerable on a gate. Either is nice to have.
Dave Stark
#430 - 2014-11-11 06:23:43 UTC
Bertucio wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Bertucio wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
[quote]

isk is not a balancing factor.

and nor will it ever be, because that's ********.


You're not making a lick of sense now, other than an irrational insistence you have to be right. Of course ISK makes a difference and determines the risk.


i didn't say it didn't.

try reading my post.


try making sense other than pulling whatever you can out of your butt


let me make it simple for you.

isk, money, the thing you use to purchase things.
will NEVER be used as a factor when it comes to balancing.
you know, the relative power of one ship compared to another.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#431 - 2014-11-11 06:27:21 UTC
Maddaxe Illat wrote:
I love it but a ORE Freighter for ship not ore?Roll

ORE seems to have started becoming the company for miscellaneous stuff.

What's the deal with the name? Bowhead sounds odd, why not something like Bowsprit instead?
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#432 - 2014-11-11 06:31:01 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
What's the deal with the name? Bowhead sounds odd, why not something like Bowsprit instead?


Because Whale Names

Orca = Whale
Bowhead = Whale
Rorqual = Class of whale

I predict Leviathan will be the ORE titan :D oh wait... lol
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#433 - 2014-11-11 06:31:54 UTC
I like the name.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#434 - 2014-11-11 06:33:29 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Xindi Kraid wrote:
Maddaxe Illat wrote:
I love it but a ORE Freighter for ship not ore?Roll

ORE seems to have started becoming the company for miscellaneous stuff.

What's the deal with the name? Bowhead sounds odd, why not something like Bowsprit instead?


Its a whale. If it lands in bubbles it becomes a beached whale.Lol
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#435 - 2014-11-11 06:34:47 UTC
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
What's the deal with the name? Bowhead sounds odd, why not something like Bowsprit instead?


Because Whale Names

Orca = Whale
Bowhead = Whale
Rorqual = Class of whale

I predict Leviathan will be the ORE titan :D oh wait... lol

Didn't realize that was a type of whale. My second suggestion for name was actually Narwhal, though I don't believe that's actually a whale. Maybe Humpback?
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#436 - 2014-11-11 06:37:16 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
Didn't realize that was a type of whale. My second suggestion for name was actually Narwhal, though I don't believe that's actually a whale. Maybe Humpback?


It is a whale, But I think that name is better reserved for if ORE ever makes a combat vessel. Bowhead while not as awesome of a name as Narwhal, It's far more appropriate and fitting for the Bowhead's purpose and scale.
Crazy Renegade
Smugglers Run Inc
#437 - 2014-11-11 06:39:14 UTC
The layout looks good, but I hope you add 1 or 2 high slots . I like cloaks on my freighters. Any ship that can not defend its self with weapons should at least be able to use passive defenses or the ability to hide. A side from defender missiles, freighters shouldn't be well armed. They aren't meant for combat. FLAME ON!!!!
Crazy Renegade
Smugglers Run Inc
#438 - 2014-11-11 06:42:39 UTC
Lidia Caderu wrote:
Quote:
5% bonus to max velocity per level

What is that for?


It means it will be able to out run a orca. CCP doesn't want us to think they created a new "slow".
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#439 - 2014-11-11 06:48:10 UTC
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
But I think that name is better reserved for if ORE ever makes a combat vessel.

Bear in mind that Orcas hunt for their food, and are more commonly known as Killer Whales and the name is attached to a general purpose mobile high sec mining base. I'm just thinking the current name sounds uninspired. Orca is neat and even if I don't know what a Rorqual is, it sounds cool enough. Bowhead is just blegh, but whatever.




Crazy Renegade wrote:
The layout looks good, but I hope you add 1 or 2 high slots . I like cloaks on my freighters. Any ship that can not defend its self with weapons should at least be able to use passive defenses or the ability to hide. A side from defender missiles, freighters shouldn't be well armed. They aren't meant for combat. FLAME ON!!!!

How can you like cloaks on your freighters if freighters don't have cloaks? Offensive slots on most industrials is something of a joke. Sure there is the case of the battle badger, but for the most part it's a token defense that doesn't do anything. I don't think being able to cloak would really help the situation much anyways, though I admit being able to hide a ship maintainence array in a hostile system for reshipping could be interesting gameplay.

I should not it does have slots for passive defense.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#440 - 2014-11-11 07:03:29 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I think it needs more tank. Freighter loads top out at about 1b max for gank efficiency so this would be no different. I don't think 1b is high enough for this ship considering the cargo.

You want the cutoff to be blingy mission fits, not a couple of standard fits. I typically carry around just over a bil in an Orca but wouldn't go higher. Why would I use this instead apart from the battleship size?


I'm pretty sure CODE aren't even aiming for efficiency on kills any more. They undoubtedly make plenty just on ransoms and bribes as is.