Science & Industry

All you people are dumb. There are people mining in null, just look at the in game map, with the right filters you can see where the mining is happening out in null. The problem is the proportions of ore are all screwed up.

Someone did a breakdown of the minerals in each of the anomalies, and compared them with the mineral requirements for a supercap / 100 battleships. While there was enough Mega for building a super or one hundred battleships, you needed to mine out an anomaly 25 times for the small or 10 for the large just to get enough Trit to build those ships, and that isn't even where the shortage lies. You would need to mine out the large anomaly ~20 times just to get enough Mexallon, the same one where you only need to mine it out ten times for enough Tritanium or ~15 for Pyerite, to build a super or one hundred battleships. You can already see the effect of the overproduction of the high end minerals in the ore market. ABC ores have tanked, there value per m3 is about where Veldspar is, while Mex bearing ores have remained largely unaffected, and in fact are at the top of the ISK/m3 value pile.

Gneiss, Kernite, Plagioclase, are in that order as the top three ISK/m3 ores, and the top three in Mexallon per unit volume. Only Gneiss, is a nulsec ore. The other two are in high security space. You don't get that kind of valuation unless the bottleneck is right there in Mexallon. Meanwhile, Crokite is barely above Pyroxeres (another highsec ore,) Bistot is also just barely above Veldspar, and Arkonor is way below Veldspar. (A little bit better than Spodumain, and Omber, the two lowest ISK/m3 ores around, but still the third lowest value ore.)

Nulsec ore anomalies from the I-Hub upgrade thingie, are the only source of 'unlimited' minerals out in nullsec. Once an anom is completely mined out it will re-spawn in about two minutes, unlike a belt which will only re-spawn after downtime, and only in limited quantities. This is why the value of 'high end' ores has plummeted, Nullsec miners are going after the 'low end' ores. In order to get enough of the 'low end' ores, they get more than they need of the 'high end,' about 20-30 times more than they need, and they are still importing huge m3 of the 'low end' compressed ores. It's like some perverted version of rabbit starvation.

Reading between the lines - what you are suggesting is that the build requirements for the ship/modules should actually reflect what the Ores contain?

They are not for a particular and deliberate reason.

Just like in reality.

And given the rest of your post (which is fine and I have no real quibble with - except: see Note); why is this a problem?

One 'area/state' has a surplus and a need - and thus trade is fostered. Therefore there is a flow of 'goods' between those areas and thus the opportunity to 'interdict' that trade, either by 'state entities' or 'pesky piwats'.

However, given that we have established that there is all the ore you could forever want available, then suitable minerals are available and all that is needed is to simply mine them. And you'd still have 'spare' of some things (that are only easily available 'out there') available for trade.

In short, if an alliance wants to be able to build caps/supers from within their own available resources then they can. They need the space and the miners (and refiners and builders) and 'soldiers' to defend them. I can think of no simpler expression of the classic 'city state' than that.

Note: Down here on dear old planet Earth not every country has the resources (certainly in sufficient quantity) to supply their own needs and for that reason we get trade. I think I'm right in suggesting that there are two, however (US & Russia); if they wished to they could close borders and isolate and be just fine.

Then I go back to my original point - pay those miners more to mine what you want. Pay them 24isk pu for Veldspar and (assuming they can do the maths) they'll (should) mine Veldspar. No one wants to be a "chinese laborer", they should want to work for you, not for just themselves.

As an aside, as I've indeed been looking at the Compressed market since I got back to EVE, currently it just doesn't seem to be worth it to do as people don't seem to want to pay a decent price for Compressed Ore.

That all said, if CCP are not going to introduce any decent logistics, then perhaps the to and fro to Jita is the best it's going to get - at least it's something to generate movement (which can therefore be interdicted).

So you want to beat the null industrialist with a stick to make them pay a null miner 24 ISK pu when highsec miners will beat that price even with shipping costs for jump fuel? Your brilliant solution is to 'pay the miners more'? What sane industrialist would do that? Also it isn't Veldspar it's Gneiss, Kernite and Plagioclase, because they are after the Mexallon, that the anomalies are critically short on. You should run for political office somewhere, because you got some brilliant plan there genius.

Funny you should say that........

Moreso since I used Veldspar simply as an example.

However, if you won't pay your miners to mine what you want, then you can't blame them at all.........

Look Marcus, what you are asking those null industrialist to do, won't work. The composition of the ores in the anomalies is fixed. In order to respawn an anomaly you have to mine out all the ore. Just telling the miners to mine just these rocks doesn't work because they have to mine all the rocks to get more of the rocks you do want. That alone will make them overproduce certain minerals, as we are seeing right now with the ABC's tanked due to overproduction.

I'm a higsec industrialist, and even I know more about null ore anomalies, ore mechanics, economics, and market analysis, than apparently you do, and I just dabble in it. What you are asking null industrialists to do, just won't work. The mechanics aren't there for the miners to do what you want, they still need to muck out the site to get more of the ores that they/industrialists do want which means that they get more of the ores that they don't want. If the null miner charges the industrialist more for the ores he's short on, the industrialist will just go to his Jita alt and buy the compressed ores and get them freighted up for cheaper. So damned if you do and damned if you don't if you are a null miner.