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Why I don't go to lowsec.

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Darth Schweinebacke
Wings of Fury.
#121 - 2014-11-10 18:10:17 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:


Sure I care about risk / reward:

Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high
Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none


Why should line null players get buffed rewards because OTHER PEOPLE put effort into negotiation mega-alliances? How is that good for the game? Our PvE rewards should now revolve around the ability to create LESS conflict? I mean seriously, if we want to reward nullsec for creating farmville, why not just abolish it and make everything highsec?


Now you are just trolling, nobody can be that daft.


Yes...the idea that you should not receive buffed rewards because your alliance leaders created a massive blue donut and turned nullsec into farmville is obviously trolling. RollShockedWhat?Pirate


Because 3 ppl == an alliance!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2014-11-10 18:16:42 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads????

i hear so much about those threads. where are they?

what are your thoughts on the deudly shield proteus. it can make up to 800mil an hour in goonsec running sigs


Here is one https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=384621&find=unread

They tend to get instalocked these days because the forums were getting flooded with them. Notice that that one is by one of the leaders of Goons, and many other top level Goons have expressed the same sentiment - that their line pilots have no reason to live in null because they can get BETTER rewards in highsec....which disproves everything Jenn is saying.

yep that sure is one crap thread. top level goon confirmed

how will gd cope with the endless nerf highsec thread(s) by top level goon(s) la nariz
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#123 - 2014-11-10 18:21:03 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


As usual, you mistake the ability to earn such isk over a short span, and with risk, for the ability to do it with regularity and over a long period of time.


And still you provide no evidence of what you believe.

Low sec lvl 5s are INFINITE. you canot bubble a low sec station so you can't prevent someone from undocking, warping to an insta, then to the mission. The average blitzed lvl 5 takes less than a minute.

I know they are sustainable because I do them every single night and cash out billions every week.

Same for Faction warfare, low sec lvl 4 blitzing and most of the rest.

See what you did here, you tried to challenge my evidence without any of you own. You are dishonest to your core.

Quote:

And as usual, you simply fail to address the elephant in the room here.

If your numbers were right (absurd, of course), why would the forums be inundated with threads about highsec being so lucrative that everyone is moving there, and that highsec rewards make low/null/wh space nonviable to live in...and that the players are better off running highsec L4s at 100 mil an hour?????

How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads????

Are all these people lying? Are they simply uninformed about how much isk they could be making? Or is there perhaps a lot more going on than you are grasping!


No one is lying except you. What you just did here is the "if it's so good, why isn't everyone doing it" fallacy that clueless people love to use.

Everyone isn't doing the same thing because everyone isn't the same. Some people are to risk averse to risk a carrier doing a lvl 5 mission for 1.5 minutes. Some are too risk averse to accept the loss of a few stealth bombers to make 350 to 600 mil per hour.

Some are 'stuck in their ways' and don't want to do anything more. Some or too incompetent to do anything but high sec pve.

Still others don't have the time to invest in setting up pve in another place.

The reason people point out the high sec/null sec income vs risk reward imbalance isn't because high sec is the most lucrative place in EVE, its the EASIEST. people can farm high sec pve content on one screen in near perfect safety while doing actual interesting stuff opn another screen. This is the reason for both "afktar" alts in null and mission alts in high.

None of that speaks to the fact that "200 mil is unmatched in the game" is so incorrect it proves you are lying about what you do in game.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#124 - 2014-11-10 18:26:50 UTC
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:
nobody can be that daft.


You'd think lol.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#125 - 2014-11-10 18:30:17 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game


Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF


Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers. RollShocked


It is no wonder people ridicule you, it's obvious you have no idea what you're on about.

People lose caps to sleepers. Incursions indeed....pfffffffft.

Put on the big boy pants and go try it.


You now witness the Divine Entervention maneuver. This is where a guy takes something that he does that is easy and safe (high sec incursions) and equates that with something he has no clue aboue and is more dangerous (high end wormhole capital escalations, which everyone but him knows is the most dangerous kick ass pve content in EVE Online). Then he suggests you are the one who is crazy when everyone with eyes can see it's him lol.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#126 - 2014-11-10 18:33:56 UTC


Lots of words, but the core confusion remains.

L5s in lowsec with caps are not "safe" by any stretch of the imagination. There are pirate fleets that live to hunt down and wipe out lowsec mission runners. A single slip up and your whole fleet is gone.

Look what OP wrote...look at the agreement expressed by subsequent posters....no one thinks lowsec is "safe," and for that reason it is the most desolate region in the game. If anything, CCP is looking to buff lowsec rewards to give people a reason to live there.

There are lots of ways to knock out lowsec mission runners....camp station on dockup, scan down and crash missions, blockade their logistics chain, etc....

The nerf highsec folks aren't complaining that it is hard to do non-highsec pve - they are complaining that no other reasonably safe mechanism of regular PvE with the same rewards as L4 exists (now the real cause of this is their coalition leaders renting out so much of their space - but I digress).

Go through the forums - read the locked nerf highsec threads - they have already explained why the other options can't replace the lack of missions in sov null. The fact is that it's not so easy to make a lot of isk in this game....and the high reward options tend to also have a high degree of risk (as it should be!)

But they key here, and to stay on topic, is that I agree with OP (and apparently the vast majority of the playerbase does as well!) - lowsec is far too dangerous for the reward level, and between gatecamps and pirates it just doesn't add up.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#127 - 2014-11-10 18:37:23 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


You now witness the Divine Entervention maneuver. This is where a guy takes something that he does that is easy and safe (high sec incursions) and equates that with something he has no clue aboue and is more dangerous (high end wormhole capital escalations, which everyone but him knows is the most dangerous kick ass pve content in EVE Online). Then he suggests you are the one who is crazy when everyone with eyes can see it's him lol.




Oh yes, sites that can be done with virtually unkillable triage carriers are SO DANGEROUS...gimme a break, the expert wh groups barely ever lose caps on these sites....it's like a lot of PvE in Eve - as long as you follow the recipe, you are virtually unkillable.

Guides like this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=144954 exist all over the place. No one is dying if your triage carrier is even minimally competent.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2014-11-10 20:08:29 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
lowsec is far too dangerous for the reward level, and between gatecamps and pirates it just doesn't add up.
... unless, of course, you're looking precisely for danger, pirates and gatecamps to shoot at. In that case, the reward of lowsec is, so to speak, the risk itself.


PVE in lowsec works perfectly if you do it to find PVP, not to run away from it.

People even mine in lowsec, but in something tanky with friends (or alts) nearby. And they're more than happy to be attacked and have the opportunity for some pew, even if they eventually lose a ship or two. Though kills are obviously preferred over losses, lowsec residents tend to see ships simply as tools for fun.

True, many lowsec guys and gals find it easier to fund their pew elsewhere, but where's the problem? Highsec for ISK, lowsec for fun.


Lowsec may be 'desolate' at times, but that just means that only a small percentage of the EVE population enjoys constant danger, frantic action and high losses in exchange for epic fights. To each their own, wild lowsec is fine as it is, just keep out if you're not interested in internet spaceship explosions.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Ilaister
Binary Aesthetics
#129 - 2014-11-10 21:29:59 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Oh yes, sites that can be done with virtually unkillable triage carriers are SO DANGEROUS...gimme a break, the expert wh groups barely ever lose caps on these sites....it's like a lot of PvE in Eve - as long as you follow the recipe, you are virtually unkillable.

Guides like this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=144954 exist all over the place. No one is dying if your triage carrier is even minimally competent.


Popping in to what was a pretty enjoyable thread to let you know bud that you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to WH PVE. Sorry. Regardless of the fact you think it's all escalations in 'unkillable' carriers.

Thanks for the guide though! I will be sure to pull it up for advice the next time a new hole pops up 30s into my siege timer and T3s and Bhaalgorns start pouring through it. Lol
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2014-11-10 21:39:45 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


But they key here, and to stay on topic, is that I agree with OP (and apparently the vast majority of the playerbase does as well!) - lowsec is far too dangerous for the reward level, and between gatecamps and pirates it just doesn't add up.



So are you saying that low sec needs a risk nerf or a rewards buff?

Wait I'll just cross my legs and start humming a mantra and the voices of the majority will reach across the ether of the universe and tell me they agree with you.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2014-11-10 22:02:17 UTC
Ilaister wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Oh yes, sites that can be done with virtually unkillable triage carriers are SO DANGEROUS...gimme a break, the expert wh groups barely ever lose caps on these sites....it's like a lot of PvE in Eve - as long as you follow the recipe, you are virtually unkillable.

Guides like this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=144954 exist all over the place. No one is dying if your triage carrier is even minimally competent.


Popping in to what was a pretty enjoyable thread to let you know bud that you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to WH PVE. Sorry. Regardless of the fact you think it's all escalations in 'unkillable' carriers.

Thanks for the guide though! I will be sure to pull it up for advice the next time a new hole pops up 30s into my siege timer and T3s and Bhaalgorns start pouring through it. Lol


Apparently Eve-O is home to all the best guides. Further more, once you have read said omnipotent Eve-O guides you absorb 100% of said information and gain more knowledge than those who have spent years playing that facet of the game.

According to some Eve-O posters, this means you know the risks of running a 0.0 alliance of 6000 people, you understand how to play wormholes in godlike mode, you understand the nuances of running level 5's, of invention and manufacturing, of large scale distribution through hostile territory, you are able to glean more understanding and foresight from fellow Eve-O posters than those who run their own killboards, more so than those who run their own Eve mapping software or websites.

llaister; just let Morpheus plug you into the learning room. It is the best way to learn karate.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#132 - 2014-11-10 22:32:19 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


But they key here, and to stay on topic, is that I agree with OP (and apparently the vast majority of the playerbase does as well!) - lowsec is far too dangerous for the reward level, and between gatecamps and pirates it just doesn't add up.



So are you saying that low sec needs a risk nerf or a rewards buff?

Wait I'll just cross my legs and start humming a mantra and the voices of the majority will reach across the ether of the universe and tell me they agree with you.


Had you read earlier I specifically suggested buffing sentry guns to deter gatecamping. This would allow for easier movement in lowsec, and allow more people to actually live there rather than just pop in for some pvp piracy. As much fun as low sec pvp is, the fact remains that there aren't many people in it, and it would be a lot more fun if the population concentration was higher. This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#133 - 2014-11-10 22:38:11 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun.


Making it harder to fight does not equate to more fighting.

That's pretty basic logic.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#134 - 2014-11-10 22:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
Veers Belvar wrote:

Had you read earlier I specifically suggested buffing sentry guns to deter gatecamping. This would allow for easier movement in lowsec, and allow more people to actually live there rather than just pop in for some pvp piracy. As much fun as low sec pvp is, the fact remains that there aren't many people in it, and it would be a lot more fun if the population concentration was higher. This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun.

Easier movement in lowsec Big smileBig smileBig smile It's already OP enough with a cloaky.. Like I said previously in another post; please don't put idea like this to our lowsec LolBear Hisec is secure enough already and B O R I N G.
You know that piracy, even if you are a target, is PART of the fun. If you have played in cat & mouse game in your young years, you should see that's the same thing.

Remove the ebil pirate and you kill a good part of lowsec...

So much drama for a frigging game Big smileBig smile
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#135 - 2014-11-10 22:40:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun.


Making it harder to fight does not equate to more fighting.

That's pretty basic logic.


Letting people actually move around and stage out of the area would lead to more people living there and therefore more fighting. The current mechanics encourage massive gatecamps, and preclude settlement. See Amamake.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#136 - 2014-11-10 22:43:13 UTC
Karl Jerr wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Had you read earlier I specifically suggested buffing sentry guns to deter gatecamping. This would allow for easier movement in lowsec, and allow more people to actually live there rather than just pop in for some pvp piracy. As much fun as low sec pvp is, the fact remains that there aren't many people in it, and it would be a lot more fun if the population concentration was higher. This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun.

Easier movement in lowsec Big smileBig smileBig smile It's already OP enough with a cloaky.. Like I said previously in another post; please don't put idea like this to our lowsec LolBear Hisec is secure enough already and B O R I N G.
You know that piracy, even if you are a target, is PART of the fun. If you have played in cat & mouse game in your young years, you should see that's the same thing.

Remove the ebil pirate and you kill a good part of lowsec...

So much drama for a frigging game Big smileBig smile


Wouldn't you like to see more activity? Wouldn't you like to have more people living in the space, doing PvE, and presenting targets? Right now it's pretty desolate - you get some fw activity, and some gatecamps, but not much in the way of PvE or real activity? You wouldn't like to see a much more energetic and occupied space?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#137 - 2014-11-10 22:43:19 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Letting people actually move around and stage out of the area would lead to more people living there and therefore more fighting.


No it wouldn't. Gates are one of the few places to actually catch people. Taking away from opportunity to fight will not lead to more fighting.

Quote:

The current mechanics encourage massive gatecamps, and preclude settlement. See Amamake.


Except, you know, that if there are gatecamps interdicting movement, that clearly someone lives there and is defending their area.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#138 - 2014-11-10 22:46:11 UTC
Getting around in lowsec is tough. It took me a long time to learn the ropes. Sometimes there are no-win situations... but over time you learn a trick here or a trick there and your success rate increases. I suck at PvP, but I'm incredibly slippery and hard-to-catch in lowsec.

I'll give you a few tips to get you started.

  • If you fit a prototype cloak, a neat trick is to hit your AB or MWD, align to the next gate, and cloak right away. Than after a second or two you decloak and warp. That first cycle of your mwd or ab gets applied and you pretty much insta-warp. Haulers do this to great effect in my empire gate camps, but it applies well to lowsec too.

  • If you are just bopping around lowsec, and as much as other players might flame me for it, stab up! A scrambler is -2 to warp and a disruptor -1. I generally assume -3 to warp when I fit ninja looting ships. This won't save you from a big camp, but roaming pirates and even medium size camps are a lot more possible if you have +3 to warp. Remember, in that instant they are trying to tackle you don't have to get away from the entire fleet, just the tacklers. If you warp too fast for the big ships to lock and they tacklers don't have enough points, they usually won't even chase you. (I've noticed a lot more tacklers use disruptors than scramblers, and if they use the latter they can't close the distance between their scramblers range and wherever you materialize around the gate before you warp)

  • Use a scout shuttle. Yah... I know... wtf is a scout? Welp, a scout is something people used to use in eve a long time ago to see if there was trouble ahead. Shuttles are ideal because they are almost impossible to lock in lowsec.

  • Stop screwing with the big boys. There is SOOOO much lowsec space that is hardly ever used. Bust out your star map and look for less populated areas. If you are encountering a camp in a certain constellation... STOP GOING THERE! (...or you could try to join them.) There are plenty of lowsec systems where you can mess around, rat, run anomalies and missions, and rarely be messed with (keep your eyes on local though). People in lowsec are not "nice". They will kill you. Just stay away from players. There's plenty of empty systems.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2014-11-10 22:47:58 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
[Wouldn't you like to see more activity? Wouldn't you like to have more people living in the space, doing PvE, and presenting targets? Right now it's pretty desolate - you get some fw activity, and some gatecamps, but not much in the way of PvE or real activity? You wouldn't like to see a much more energetic and occupied space?
Carebears PVEing =/= energetic space.

And no, I actually don't really care about 'targets', I prefer dudes that shoot back. And they're already in lowsec because they laugh at the notion that 'massive gatecamps' are preventing them to roam.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#140 - 2014-11-10 22:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
Veers Belvar wrote:

Wouldn't you like to see more activity? Wouldn't you like to have more people living in the space, doing PvE, and presenting targets? Right now it's pretty desolate - you get some fw activity, and some gatecamps, but not much in the way of PvE or real activity? You wouldn't like to see a much more energetic and occupied space?

Trust me there are activities other than gatecamp and FW.
If someone want to PVe in low he/she can, I do it myself so anyone can do it too.
The big part is staying aware of your surrounding in the same time than doing your activities, and by that it is more interesting than doing the same in highsec.

Yes sometime it can be empty but it's a false feeling because you can be litteraly head to head with a fleet after a jump, when the same system was so empty some seconds ago. And it's all part of the fun Bear

And to answer to your last question: no, because it would become like highsec, because let be honest; first phase you want to buff the gate's gun, next phase you could want to have Concord in lowsec, which isn't logical because it is Lowsec not null, not high