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Corporations: Why Recruit? Players: Why Join?
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Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#21 - 2011-12-14 03:12:13 UTC
Not a bad start. Those are all good benefits to lowish skill level players and are good incentives to join a corp.

Wish you well in your venture.

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KevLor I
Zephyr Corp
#22 - 2011-12-14 05:18:50 UTC
Don't try to lure too many members with 'incentives'. Get members in, have a good time, work things out, and you will get a slowly growing core group of members. Yes, a lot will come and go, but you will get a good group. Trusted directors for any size corp are a must.

Also, being in a corp allows a fun way to 'PvP' with some rules - you can stage tourneys and fights to your hearts content.
Ryuce
#23 - 2011-12-14 07:36:37 UTC
Regarding wanting to join an industrial corp. Quiet a few people will join the corp in order to obtain roles and enrich themselves or try and grief you just to watch the world burn. Always be on alert when people seem very interested in obtaining roles etc.
Dele Anneto
Zventec Heavy Industries
#24 - 2011-12-14 13:21:37 UTC
Farrina,

Im a pretty inexperienced industrialist whos interested in your idea, so if you want to drop me a mail in game or something? im all up for joining a corp
Akira Menoko
Silnare
#25 - 2011-12-14 21:40:40 UTC
Farrina wrote:

Mission Running - The Corporation has a low tax (5% or less). In addition, the Corporation will come out to you in a Noctis (provided you're in hi-sec), and loot/salvage all your wrecks for you. In exchange for the low tax and the free clean-up, the Corp keeps 25-50% of the *salvaged* materials as a service fee. The collected salvage is then used for Industry. The Corporation asks mission runners to donate mods, but it is not required.
-Mission runners profit via reduced taxes and expedient site clean-up.


With the advent of the corporation bookmarks this is actually pretty doable I think, since all the mission runner would have to do is bookmark the pockets as a corp bookmark and then clear them out once the site is salvaged. Or have a salvaging vessel in the same fleet following on pocket behind. The 25%-50% service fee seems pretty reasonable. I've had new pilots salvage my L4s for me in the past where I did a 50-50 split.

Farrina wrote:

Mining - During Corp ops (boosted and hauled by Orca), the Corporation buys the ore at below market value - but still enough for the miners to profit.
-Miners profit via boosting and hauling.


This is how many corps run it, the hard part is figuring how much each person gets. This inevitably requires record keeping and spreadsheets whether its simple (even shares based on time) or complicated (calculated shares based on time, ship type, and skills). I have a spreadsheet that I built ages ago to make payouts as fair as possible, so it goes the complicated route with minimal information (put in time in and out of fleet with ship type, get fair shares out).

Farrina wrote:

The Corporation takes the salvaged materials, donated mods, and bought minerals and uses it to manufacture for profit and ship replacement program. All activities basically lead up to the Corp making stuff and selling it, and reinvesting that money back into the Corp via dividends, skillbooks, ship replacement, etc etc.


I personally don't have any experience with running a manufacturing corp like this. It looks good but sounds like a lot of work. Definitely a task to be spread over several people. Naturally you'll want to start small and build up.

Farrina wrote:

Corp members may also gain access to POS to do their own research and manufacture.


This can be risky since whoever does research has the rites to also halt everyone's corp research. Some people have been less than careful in setting up corp roles when it comes to tower access and have inadvertently given away too much access, leading to entire POS setups and their contents being stolen. Locking down your expensive BPOs is a must.

Farrina wrote:

Does this sound look a good start?


This all looks like its off to a good start.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#26 - 2011-12-15 00:37:52 UTC
I will say the first corp I ever joined was dedicated to well, hauling. There is basically no advantage to having players help you with this, we all had a great time though, and after a bit never really hauled anything, it was missions or PVP, etc. So like others have stated just being with some friends is enough of a reason.

Also, some corps will not trust anyone at all because they think they are going to win eve like that, but you don't want to be with corps like that, because the only real way to succeed in a video game is to have a good time, being ultra paranoid and untrusting and taking things too seriously tends to ruin the experience, and you know what, if you do lose some stuff, you can always rebuild, it is just some pixels on a computer screen after all.
Marie Curiie
Wan Futuristics
#27 - 2011-12-15 05:37:45 UTC
There was a CORP named Wan Futuristics that was open to any one whom wanted to join, even research ALTs (Which I am). The CEO had a Hi-SEC POS set up with Lab modules, any member of the CORP could use the lab slots for a fee which was paid to the CORP master wallet. I was the only one who took him up on the offer; I researched several blue prints for my main. Only one other person joined and he researched only one blue print then left. I took a two week break, then decided to come back and research some more, when I came back the CEO was no where to be found, the POS was derelict, and the CORP is now defunct because I don’t have the authority to restart any thing. It makes me sad to see it, so here I am hoping to see the CEO log in again, so we can get things restarted.
Farrina
Doomheim
#28 - 2011-12-15 17:25:22 UTC
Okay so to sum up the reasons for joining:

Social - This seems to be the biggest one. People join to play with other people, chat, and have fun. NPC Corp is often filled with trolls and abusive players, so many people want to get away from this if they can. A player-Corp seems to be the way to do it.

Research - Players join the Corporation to gain access to research labs. Does this present a potential security hole? Yes and no. I have done some reading and learned that you can grant players access to lab and factory slots without significantly compromising the security of the tower - just make sure your members have scientific networking and keep their BPOs in their own personal hangars and everything is peachykeen. Also make sure to have 1 Division that no one but CEO can see, and leave 1 Tritanium in each lab/factory so that it cannot be unanchored. The only real security problem would be if a griefer joined and canceled some jobs. But that is a moderate, acceptable risk because even if you lose a few days from this, you're still saving time in the long-run because public slots are queued 15-45 days...

Accomplishing Group Goals - This seems to be another big one. It's true - if you just want to start your own ammo production line, you could mine all the minerals and do all the research and production yourself. But for bigger projects, you may need a team of miners, and maybe a dedicated hauler. The miners need to get paid at near-market costs, otherwise they may leave to do their own mining. It's true, however, that if a Corp-sponsored Orca sat out there boosting and hauling, the increased efficiency will basically outweigh the lower amount of ISK per hour, and pilots may actually make more than solo-mining. Now this could be tricky figuring out what each miner gets, but it would be easier if, say, you made it a requirement that they all fly Hulks. Then there's also time spent mining...

I can see that for mining, I will need a spreadsheet.

I was also thinking: There are groups of players, called "traders", who love to buy things cheap in 1 region, and then sell them more expensive in another region. What if the Corp sold it's products to the traders and let them figure out the rest from there? It removes a big step, the Corp profits, and the traders profit via their own efforts. Just an idea, not sure how it would work considering how the market fluctuates.

So I have learned a bit about security from this thread. The way I see it, for a small Corp of say, 20 people, and assuming the CEO is fairly active, you only need the CEO and maybe 1 trusted Director or sub-Director.

What roles would other members need? A little hangar access for fittings, access to locked BPOs for building, and access to labs/factories for their own research and building. It might be easier for them to have more roles, but all these roles I'm reading about either are not necessary or can be subverted via direct player effort.
Akira Menoko
Silnare
#29 - 2011-12-15 21:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Akira Menoko
This is the third time I've tried to post this because the forums keep eating my posts X

Farrina wrote:
Okay so to sum up the reasons for joining:

Social - This seems to be the biggest one. People join to play with other people, chat, and have fun. NPC Corp is often filled with trolls and abusive players, so many people want to get away from this if they can. A player-Corp seems to be the way to do it.

Research - Players join the Corporation to gain access to research labs. Does this present a potential security hole? Yes and no. I have done some reading and learned that you can grant players access to lab and factory slots without significantly compromising the security of the tower - just make sure your members have scientific networking and keep their BPOs in their own personal hangars and everything is peachykeen. Also make sure to have 1 Division that no one but CEO can see, and leave 1 Tritanium in each lab/factory so that it cannot be unanchored. The only real security problem would be if a griefer joined and canceled some jobs. But that is a moderate, acceptable risk because even if you lose a few days from this, you're still saving time in the long-run because public slots are queued 15-45 days...


The BPOs have to be in a corp hangar to be able to use the tower remotely, so you'll have to come up with a way to handle personal BPOs in a corp hangar. The 1 trit thing is a new one to me and would be a good way to keep non-directors from ever unanchoring modules.

Farrina wrote:

Accomplishing Group Goals - This seems to be another big one. It's true - if you just want to start your own ammo production line, you could mine all the minerals and do all the research and production yourself. But for bigger projects, you may need a team of miners, and maybe a dedicated hauler. The miners need to get paid at near-market costs, otherwise they may leave to do their own mining. It's true, however, that if a Corp-sponsored Orca sat out there boosting and hauling, the increased efficiency will basically outweigh the lower amount of ISK per hour, and pilots may actually make more than solo-mining. Now this could be tricky figuring out what each miner gets, but it would be easier if, say, you made it a requirement that they all fly Hulks. Then there's also time spent mining...

I can see that for mining, I will need a spreadsheet.


I have a friend getting into capital production and he'll be having the same problems with miners or otherwise sourcing the huge amounts of minerals needed. I've done some mining op management myself in the past and made a spreadsheet and some algorithms to handle the payouts in a fair way. You might also need a spreadsheet to track costs and whatnot to make sure you are actually making a profit and not having a situation where you could make more just selling raw materials than by building something from them.

Farrina wrote:

I was also thinking: There are groups of players, called "traders", who love to buy things cheap in 1 region, and then sell them more expensive in another region. What if the Corp sold it's products to the traders and let them figure out the rest from there? It removes a big step, the Corp profits, and the traders profit via their own efforts. Just an idea, not sure how it would work considering how the market fluctuates.


Traders are an interesting thing. It'd be great to have one on staff you trust enough to hand over your product and eventually receive back the proceeds minus the trader's cut. I've always dealt with traders who buy on spec and then resell for a profit. Most of the time when they do this (at least with me when I sold huge amounts of compressed Dark Glitter) they would only buy for way below Jita buy order prices and wouldn't negotiate. So I often just ended up selling to the buy orders.

Farrina wrote:

So I have learned a bit about security from this thread. The way I see it, for a small Corp of say, 20 people, and assuming the CEO is fairly active, you only need the CEO and maybe 1 trusted Director or sub-Director.

What roles would other members need? A little hangar access for fittings, access to locked BPOs for building, and access to labs/factories for their own research and building. It might be easier for them to have more roles, but all these roles I'm reading about either are not necessary or can be subverted via direct player effort.


One CEO and a director to pick up the slack and cover your days off should be enough. Most members won't need roles beyond hangar access, lab/factory access, and an empty wallet for starting lab/factory jobs. Typically anyone asking for a director role or something else hugely major is trying to rip you off.

If you want to collaborate on this, the mining spreadsheet I mentioned, or something else drop me an Eve mail.
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