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Breaking News: No more SP loss and clone grades

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Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#201 - 2014-11-09 22:31:58 UTC
Lelith Hellebron wrote:
"First, they came for the learning skills, and we rejoiced, because they told us everyone hated the learning skills, right?"

"Then, they came for the MedClones, and we rejoiced, because MedClones R hard, and I didn't have to put up with any crap like that in WoW. Mirite gais!?"

"Finally, when they came to compress all skills into 3 months of training and make all items trivial to produce because market research showed that those changes might improve new/low dedication player retention, we looked up from the wreckage of our own acquiescence in the name of 'easier for me', and realized it was far too late to save this game that we had so loved..."


To CCP: The people do not know what they want when it comes to difficulty. They think they do - and will squawk endlessly about it - but many children think they want ice cream for dinner every night, and will pitch a fit over that, too. What the people who play EVE (as opposed to other, less substantive MMO's) really want, whether they are insightful enough to recognize it or not, is to play a Massive Multiplayer Game on Stupidly-****ing-Hard mode, so that if and when they accomplish something, it's actually worth bragging about.

I hope, for the sake of its own already outstanding longevity, that EVE continues to distinguish itself from the bloated brand of games which coddle every player. Games in which nobody stands out because everyone is led by the nose to the same rewards and accomplishments through the same pseudo-challenges.

"Ccp pls make me press buttons and punish me if I don't."

You'd make an excellent sub.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#202 - 2014-11-09 22:33:31 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Can I finally suggest that CCP allow us to delete skills, now? Without people like Tippi getting up my ass about how unfair it would be to reduce the clone replacement cost. Because I can't stand looking at that stupid mining skill that I was stuck with at character creation.

No replacement cost = No need to keep skills you don't want.

To be clear. I'm not asking for respec, bank or ISK . Just let me delete the damn things if I want.

Mr Epeen Cool

Well I'd say a broken clock is right twice a day but this is rarer.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#203 - 2014-11-09 23:17:26 UTC
Lelith Hellebron wrote:
"First, they came for the learning skills, and we rejoiced, because they told us everyone hated the learning skills, right?"

"Then, they came for the MedClones, and we rejoiced, because MedClones R hard, and I didn't have to put up with any crap like that in WoW. Mirite gais!?"

"Finally, when they came to compress all skills into 3 months of training and make all items trivial to produce because market research showed that those changes might improve new/low dedication player retention, we looked up from the wreckage of our own acquiescence in the name of 'easier for me', and realized it was far too late to save this game that we had so loved..."


To CCP: The people do not know what they want when it comes to difficulty. They think they do - and will squawk endlessly about it - but many children think they want ice cream for dinner every night, and will pitch a fit over that, too. What the people who play EVE (as opposed to other, less substantive MMO's) really want, whether they are insightful enough to recognize it or not, is to play a Massive Multiplayer Game on Stupidly-****ing-Hard mode, so that if and when they accomplish something, it's actually worth bragging about.

I hope, for the sake of its own already outstanding longevity, that EVE continues to distinguish itself from the bloated brand of games which coddle every player. Games in which nobody stands out because everyone is led by the nose to the same rewards and accomplishments through the same pseudo-challenges.


well said +1 from me.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
erittainvarma
Fistful of Finns
#204 - 2014-11-09 23:56:04 UTC
afkalt wrote:
erittainvarma wrote:
I don't know really what to think of this. I kinda feel that you should get some punishment from losing your pod, even if you don't have any implants.

Will the next standard "FOTM" in CTA fleets be a pod with no-implant clone? Then have anti-tackle ships secondary goal as a shoot own pods?

This shouldn't be Suicide Online.



The thing is, being realistic - getting a pod out is binary. You either do, or do not and player skill has nothing to do with it.

No bubbles or bombs or lag? Always get it out. Of those three options, how many inviolve player skill? 0.


Furthermore, if there was something "exploitable" with 0 cost clones, do you not think the large blocs would already be doing that with trial accouts?

First of all, getting your pod out or not now is totally irrelevant. With 0 cost you wouldn't want your POD get out, you would want that someone shoots it as fast as possible so that you get back to stage to reship.

The "exploitable" thing isn't available to large blocs now as trial accounts can't fly ships they need in their fleet. And just training for something and then stopping training to keep pod price low would have been too much to ask from members.

So to make clear, my main problem with zero cost pods is that optimal play with them is to automatically activate self destruct and hope that someone shoots you. When shooting someones POD means you are doing just direct favorite them it kinda is **** game mechanic.

One way out of this could be that we get option to die with our ship. Why escape if it only makes things harder for you?
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#205 - 2014-11-10 00:05:33 UTC
Yeah because people don't already ask to get podded back to staging.

Let's be realistic here, the chances of your pod making it back successfully aren't really that great anyway. This doesn't change much.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2014-11-10 00:16:14 UTC
erittainvarma wrote:
afkalt wrote:
erittainvarma wrote:
I don't know really what to think of this. I kinda feel that you should get some punishment from losing your pod, even if you don't have any implants.

Will the next standard "FOTM" in CTA fleets be a pod with no-implant clone? Then have anti-tackle ships secondary goal as a shoot own pods?

This shouldn't be Suicide Online.



The thing is, being realistic - getting a pod out is binary. You either do, or do not and player skill has nothing to do with it.

No bubbles or bombs or lag? Always get it out. Of those three options, how many inviolve player skill? 0.


Furthermore, if there was something "exploitable" with 0 cost clones, do you not think the large blocs would already be doing that with trial accouts?

First of all, getting your pod out or not now is totally irrelevant. With 0 cost you wouldn't want your POD get out, you would want that someone shoots it as fast as possible so that you get back to stage to reship.

The "exploitable" thing isn't available to large blocs now as trial accounts can't fly ships they need in their fleet. And just training for something and then stopping training to keep pod price low would have been too much to ask from members.

So to make clear, my main problem with zero cost pods is that optimal play with them is to automatically activate self destruct and hope that someone shoots you. When shooting someones POD means you are doing just direct favorite them it kinda is **** game mechanic.

One way out of this could be that we get option to die with our ship. Why escape if it only makes things harder for you?


But that's is EXACTLY what happens today. If you're rolling into a serious fight, you have a fresh empty clone and you go at it until the field is lost with many a clone in the middle. This wont change that and the isk cost is nothing in the long run. No-one is going to throw a StratOp based on a 40 million clone, no-one.

What this fixes is the other things - the small null/WH skirmishes, the poor sodding dictor pilots. It's going to get people out in the field more, it's going to stop hurting pilots choosing a home/playstyle more than others - it's going to change nothing in the big important fights.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#207 - 2014-11-10 07:47:28 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Freelancer117 wrote:
With no death penalty towards skillpoint loss and clone costs this allows more players to PvP in nullsec call to arms,
for those that can not properly pvp but only can press F1 like a good monkey this "feature" will serve them well What?

A proper death penalty raises the stakes in PvP much higher, you then have something to lose but also something to gain.
It pumps adrenaline into your veins when so close to dying, sadly it is only felt by those who are genuinely trying to be victorious.


The first thing you hear on coms after your fleet in null has been decimated is this: "I get a replacement, right?". Over and over in various iterations.

So, since PVP is free anyway, the clone thing is not going to make much difference. Just wait for the demands for free implant replacement. It'll happen soon enough.

Mr Epeen Cool




We can speculate. But I see this happening too, because of the precedent that was set with NEX items.

Basically, you buy a shirt or panty hose or something (for Amarrians to wear under those robes no doubt - sickos) but when you are in your pod you are in the nude.

Now it could be argued that maybe the pod has a little suitcase in it. There's room for donuts, right?


But get blapped and end up back at the station, you still got your clothes.


The precedent is not that you purchase an "item" in such as an entity all it's own, but a "right to use that item" in a manner that no matter where you go, if you are using it, you have the right.

(Now if we take the item off and put it in a cargo hold of a ship that gets blapped.... this is a disconnect).


But the question is, will this ever happen to implants or "certain implants" that every clone gets?


To introduce that might cause oceans of tears, or might not if it does not cost as much as a monocle or pants.


I think it will be trial ballooned - it'll start as a special implant given to visitors of a fan fest one year, or through some special purchase of a box set. If there is no major sperging and ragequitting over it, it'll happen more often.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#208 - 2014-11-10 07:57:54 UTC
erittainvarma wrote:

First of all, getting your pod out or not now is totally irrelevant. With 0 cost you wouldn't want your POD get out, you would want that someone shoots it as fast as possible so that you get back to stage to reship.


Yep I totally don't want to keep my billion isk implants.

erittainvarma wrote:

The "exploitable" thing isn't available to large blocs now as trial accounts can't fly ships they need in their fleet. And just training for something and then stopping training to keep pod price low would have been too much to ask from members.

So to make clear, my main problem with zero cost pods is that optimal play with them is to automatically activate self destruct and hope that someone shoots you. When shooting someones POD means you are doing just direct favorite them it kinda is **** game mechanic.

One way out of this could be that we get option to die with our ship. Why escape if it only makes things harder for you?


Because of the reason above?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#209 - 2014-11-10 08:08:14 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


Yes. You pretty much do. Not that the guy getting the free ship gives a **** about your first world problems. He just wants the ship.

Mr Epeen Cool


Wrong again. We don't pay out the full ship costs outside of strat ops and there are large areas of EVE in which there is no payout at all.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#210 - 2014-11-10 08:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Yes, well I can't help but think that this is a big mistake. I didn't like the removal of learning skill either though. It you are doing this to cater to a less loyal casual player base be ready to lose many of the loyal players you have attracted over the years.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2014-11-10 08:59:33 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Yes, well I can't help but think that this is a big mistake. I didn't like the removal of learning skill either though. It you are doing this to cater to a less loyal casual player base be ready to lose many of the loyal players you have attracted over the years.


That literally makes no sense.

The people this manifestly benefits are the oldest eve players. They don't come much more loyal.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#212 - 2014-11-10 09:44:41 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Can I finally suggest that CCP allow us to delete skills, now? Without people like Tippi getting up my ass about how unfair it would be to reduce the clone replacement cost. Because I can't stand looking at that stupid mining skill that I was stuck with at character creation.

No replacement cost = No need to keep skills you don't want.

To be clear. I'm not asking for respec, bank or ISK . Just let me delete the damn things if I want.

Mr Epeen Cool
I'd like this also. This character was born with certain skills I'll never use and Eve gave me no choice as to whether I wanted them or not.

But this option may be more trouble for CCP than it first looks. Safe guards would need to be in place, to try and fix stupid and we know how well that works. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dave Stark
#213 - 2014-11-10 10:02:30 UTC
now, ccp just need to get rid of learning implants.

although, now the clone costs are gone i'm more likely to just jump in to an empty clone on friday night and waste some frigates... i can tolerate losing 2 days training time (it's not 2 days of training time but you all know what i mean, pedants) for a bit of pewpew.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2014-11-10 14:36:35 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:


I'll fight all day if someone else is paying for my losses.

I don't care who pays as long as it's not me.

If it's not me how am I suffering for being killed?


The organisation backing you is suffering.

We don't run with an unlimited supply of isk.


Yes. You pretty much do. Not that the guy getting the free ship gives a **** about your first world problems. He just wants the ship.

Mr Epeen Cool

No, no we don't. If we did, we'd just buy every newbee a super pilot and Aeon, and commence to destroying everyone's stuff with five to six full wreckingball fleets, especially now that they can take gates.

Also, if you get enough people who don't care about their alliance into one place, you won't have an alliance for very long.
SA Karinka
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#215 - 2014-11-10 14:51:19 UTC
Sounds ok....

Having to choose the quality of your clone left me a little wierded out... You can purchase clone A but its a little squirrelly and your short term memory will be a little gimpy or you can choose the Premium clone Z which has upgraded interfaces everywhere...
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
#216 - 2014-11-10 15:07:51 UTC
erittainvarma wrote:
hurrdurr self destruct pod will make it faster herpderp

point the pod and ransom them?

seriously I don't want to post on this forum anymore.

Everything's a game if you make it one - Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci

CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase - Frostys Virpio
erittainvarma
Fistful of Finns
#217 - 2014-11-10 15:44:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
erittainvarma wrote:

First of all, getting your pod out or not now is totally irrelevant. With 0 cost you wouldn't want your POD get out, you would want that someone shoots it as fast as possible so that you get back to stage to reship.


Yep I totally don't want to keep my billion isk implants.

erittainvarma wrote:

The "exploitable" thing isn't available to large blocs now as trial accounts can't fly ships they need in their fleet. And just training for something and then stopping training to keep pod price low would have been too much to ask from members.

So to make clear, my main problem with zero cost pods is that optimal play with them is to automatically activate self destruct and hope that someone shoots you. When shooting someones POD means you are doing just direct favorite them it kinda is **** game mechanic.

One way out of this could be that we get option to die with our ship. Why escape if it only makes things harder for you?


Because of the reason above?

Well if you had read the whole conversation instead of picking just stuff to pick on, you would have seen that we were talking about no implant clones.
erittainvarma
Fistful of Finns
#218 - 2014-11-10 15:53:37 UTC
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame wrote:
erittainvarma wrote:
hurrdurr self destruct pod will make it faster herpderp

point the pod and ransom them?

seriously I don't want to post on this forum anymore.

Well it's probably for the best as I don't really know what was your post point. Point self-destructing pod and ransom it?

So to make clear, my main problem with zero cost clones with no implants is that optimal play with them is to automatically activate self destruct and hope that someone shoots you.

I would like to have the option to die with the ship.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#219 - 2014-11-10 23:50:24 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:


I'll fight all day if someone else is paying for my losses.

I don't care who pays as long as it's not me.

If it's not me how am I suffering for being killed?


The organisation backing you is suffering.

We don't run with an unlimited supply of isk.


Yes. You pretty much do. Not that the guy getting the free ship gives a **** about your first world problems. He just wants the ship.

Mr Epeen Cool

No, no we don't. If we did, we'd just buy every newbee a super pilot and Aeon, and commence to destroying everyone's stuff with five to six full wreckingball fleets, especially now that they can take gates.

Also, if you get enough people who don't care about their alliance into one place, you won't have an alliance for very long.


If we get non capsular pilots with 20 million sp for noobies then this is exactly what will happen.

I guess the blue donuts will have to up the rent to pay for it all.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
#220 - 2014-11-11 00:12:56 UTC
So I don't have to buy clones anymore or what? Is there an informative link to what the mechanics behind it are? Why can I still purchase a clone?