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[Phoebe] Heavy Interdictors

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Sigras
Conglomo
#361 - 2014-11-04 00:06:56 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
I don't think the Phobos is as bad as people think, it is better than Devoter at holding targets in place (scram+web-cbooster / dual web+scram). The damage of these won't be a deal-breaker, it basically just means that a HIC adds a bit more meaningful contribution to small gang dps than before.

The problem is that a HIC's role is tackling cap ships... there are far better ships for the job if you're tackling something smaller.

Basically this means that the Phobos is good at doing stuff HICs shouldnt be bothering with, and the Devoter is good at the things HICs should be good at.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#362 - 2014-11-04 11:12:28 UTC
Sigras wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
I don't think the Phobos is as bad as people think, it is better than Devoter at holding targets in place (scram+web-cbooster / dual web+scram). The damage of these won't be a deal-breaker, it basically just means that a HIC adds a bit more meaningful contribution to small gang dps than before.

The problem is that a HIC's role is tackling cap ships... there are far better ships for the job if you're tackling something smaller.

Basically this means that the Phobos is good at doing stuff HICs shouldnt be bothering with, and the Devoter is good at the things HICs should be good at.


HICs role is to be a heavy interdictor, it can also tackle caps but it's not the sole purpose. They are staple in wh gangs to tackle subcaps and there really aren't any better ships for that purpose here.

Furthermore these changes literally aim to expand HIC usability in normal roaming.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#363 - 2014-11-04 13:01:15 UTC
Sigras wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
I don't think the Phobos is as bad as people think, it is better than Devoter at holding targets in place (scram+web-cbooster / dual web+scram). The damage of these won't be a deal-breaker, it basically just means that a HIC adds a bit more meaningful contribution to small gang dps than before.

The problem is that a HIC's role is tackling cap ships... there are far better ships for the job if you're tackling something smaller.

Basically this means that the Phobos is good at doing stuff HICs shouldnt be bothering with, and the Devoter is good at the things HICs should be good at.



HICs get a lot of use both in empire and LS for their infinite point against stabbed subcaps at gates. In wh, they have a lot of uses that have nothing to do with holding down a super.

My point? There is the design role and the common use roles. You have to look at all the uses, not just the one you use it for. Your narrow perspective doesn't really serve the forums or the community all that well. You get an opinion just like everyone else, but "doing stuff HICs shouldn't be bothering with" is kind of... self serving.
nanogen
RESET.
#364 - 2014-11-06 10:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: nanogen
Quote:
When a Rorqual, Dreadnaught, Carrier, Supercarrier or Titan is pointed by a focused point they will not be able to jump through gates.


There is no mentioning of Jump Freighters. Are they affected too? And does this mean that they can be stopped from jumping in High Sec (High Sec<-->High Sec & Highsec<--> LowSec) too?

I understand that you want to nerf Capital Gatecamps in Low but i dont think someone has the intention to camp a Gate in a JF.

*EDIT* We tested it on SiSi JF´s are affected by the focused Point at least in 0.0. We are currently testing High-Sec travel.
*EDIT2*A Heavy Interdictor can prevent a JF from jumping from High to High at least on SiSi.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#365 - 2014-11-06 12:27:28 UTC
I'm not seeing the problem with this in empire. What's your point?
nanogen
RESET.
#366 - 2014-11-06 13:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: nanogen
My first Point is that it is not mentioned in the Patchnotes. The second point is that he reason for this mechanic is to reduce the power of Capital Gatecamps in Low Sec, not to give JF Pilots a hard time to jump (via Stargate) from Low to High Sec or between High-Sec Systems.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#367 - 2014-11-06 22:18:35 UTC
not robust enough

Oderint Dum Metuant
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#368 - 2014-11-06 23:27:30 UTC
Aralieus wrote:
not robust enough

Sad which one?

The Onyx is so slow that despite looking sexy, she doesn't offer much.

The Phobos can take some punishment but a plate will gimp her mobility.

The Devoter, while also a very good locking ship, well she has drones now - yeay.

All of them do lack capacitor. Do not attempt to point a carrier on a gate when your gang is still a few jumps out. 7 Geckos will end your career quickly.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#369 - 2014-11-07 08:48:00 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Lurifax wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Lurifax wrote:
The point is not to be able to survive 100 ppl blapping at you. In that case anything but capital tends to get alphad off the field.




That's kind of my point. 100 folks alpha you. 10 guys have zero chance of breaking you (with remote rep support).

Where is the breakover point? Once you turn on the ability to get remote assistance you then have to set the reasonable breakover where you can get broken. Turning this on is giving you immunity to a certain size gang.


10 ppl might not be able to break you, but does 10 ppl can rather easily disengage the Hic. Remember that the HIC get 0 benefit from propulsion mods when the warp.



You can still MWD when you are using the point... its only when you have a bubble up you slow right down


A HIC cannot be remote repd when its pointing something/bubble up. so if he is been repped every one can run away.
If there's 4 Hics and you have a 10 man fleet your prob fighting a far superior force and should of not engaged in the 1st place.

I like the 20% role bonus Rather than the 4% per level.
After playing about on the test server with guns and stuff its a bit useless for the most part.


No it is also when using the scripts
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#370 - 2014-11-07 12:44:02 UTC
I'll be honest, I just want to wonk straggler caps trying to catch up to the fleet or the ones left behind just trying to make it home. I'm not really interested in the big blob epic stuff. I figure the more stragglers I nick, the less interest folks will have in being in the mega blobs.

A mega corp can force doctines on you, but they can't force you to log in and spend 6 hrs on a boring op for something that doesn't really benefit you. I think the more of the guys that get wonked on their way home (the day after the fleet left the area) the more conflict will become local.

I can't imagine a larger alliance replacing an archon that was lost at some mid point between a conflict and home 3 days after the operation was over. These are the guys I want. I want to break the casual guys will to log in and serve some large alliance. The game is good enough overall that this 'broken' guy will find a smaller more local group to set up shop with.

It's a dream, but I'm watching for my opportunities to make that dream come true.

The 'can't jump' addition to the HIC's super powers makes it a lot easier for small groups to cull the stragglers. I'll give it 3 thumbs up.

If only we could knee-cap the JF whiners and get that crap under control. I'm patient, maybe next year.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#371 - 2014-11-07 19:59:02 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Aralieus wrote:
not robust enough

Sad which one?

The Onyx is so slow that despite looking sexy, she doesn't offer much.

The Phobos can take some punishment but a plate will gimp her mobility.

The Devoter, while also a very good locking ship, well she has drones now - yeay.

All of them do lack capacitor. Do not attempt to point a carrier on a gate when your gang is still a few jumps out. 7 Geckos will end your career quickly.


The Devoter is a Zealot with +1 fitting slot and a dronebay added. Oh, the damage bonus was changed to a resist bonus, but no loss in power there. Look at the fitting stats, with the superpoint fitted it has about 20 CPU less and 20 PG more than an unfitted Zealot, you lose basically nothing relative to a Zealot by fitting the superpoint.

Now, I agree that it's absolutely not good enough, but that's because the Ishtar is so stupidly overpowered it obsoletes everything that can't outrange it. (+100% optimal railboats) It's not because these ships themselves are underpowered.
JoJo Oraipy
Doomheim
#372 - 2014-11-07 22:14:58 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
DON't SHOOTMEPLZ wrote:
Make the focus point stop all ships from going through a stargate, will encourage people to bring hics and stop the stargate games.

Maybe also prevent docking?

Agreed. Why not make the HIC prevent stargate jumps for ALL ships, not just Capitals?




ALL SHIPS! BABY!
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#373 - 2014-11-07 22:56:36 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
...Now, I agree that it's absolutely not good enough, but that's because the Ishtar is so stupidly overpowered it obsoletes everything that can't outrange it. (+100% optimal railboats) It's not because these ships themselves are underpowered.


Xequecal, dear!

I just couldn't say anything else about the Devoter because I didn't fit her yet, so I didn't want to say something and take it all back later because I didn't know.

I believe the best course of action on that Ishtar problem would be to just nerf light missile launchers!

Dear Myanna,

can you ask CCP to nerf light missile launcher a little more? Thank you!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#374 - 2014-11-08 14:09:07 UTC
Well, turns out the new Phobos is absolutely wonderful general purpose wormhole small gang ship. It gets a solid tank with 200mm rails and bubble, and the bonuses make it apply really nicely inside the bubble.

Thanks CCP <3
Dograzor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#375 - 2014-11-09 14:59:40 UTC
CCP,

I have done some testing on sisi and it seems that the focused point prevents Jump Freighters from jumping through stargates as well.

JF's have not been mentioned in your devblog, is this an intended change or a bug?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#376 - 2014-11-09 15:22:12 UTC
its a shame you cant use the scripted WDFG's in HS .. wouldn't mind flying an onyx too its full power, being able too rep it aswell .. these would be great additions .. maybe nerf the range a little so maybe 30km max at lv5..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Luscius Uta
#377 - 2014-11-10 07:16:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Firstly, we are enabling overheat for Warp Disruption Field Generators with an overheat bonus that reduced cycle time by 1/3. This allows a hictor pilot to strategically reduce the cycle time of his bubble so that he can quickly disable it and receive reps if he gets primaried.


Let us know what you think!


I think it's the dumbest idea ever. Reducing cap use would be most sensible here, and even reducing range could be useful if you have a friendly ship near the edge of the HIC bubble that needs escaping, but, no, you couldn't resist the urge to troll us once again by giving us something none of us (presumably) wanted.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#378 - 2014-11-10 09:15:00 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Firstly, we are enabling overheat for Warp Disruption Field Generators with an overheat bonus that reduced cycle time by 1/3. This allows a hictor pilot to strategically reduce the cycle time of his bubble so that he can quickly disable it and receive reps if he gets primaried.


Let us know what you think!


I think it's the dumbest idea ever. Reducing cap use would be most sensible here, and even reducing range could be useful if you have a friendly ship near the edge of the HIC bubble that needs escaping, but, no, you couldn't resist the urge to troll us once again by giving us something none of us (presumably) wanted.


Reducing the bubble time is actually a vey nice thing. But yes more cap would be wonderful.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#379 - 2014-11-10 11:34:23 UTC
Dograzor wrote:
CCP,

I have done some testing on sisi and it seems that the focused point prevents Jump Freighters from jumping through stargates as well.

JF's have not been mentioned in your devblog, is this an intended change or a bug?


The gate jump locking applying to JFs is a defect, and it will be removed in our Tuesday patch.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#380 - 2014-11-10 16:01:01 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
its a shame you cant use the scripted WDFG's in HS .. wouldn't mind flying an onyx too its full power, being able too rep it aswell .. these would be great additions .. maybe nerf the range a little so maybe 30km max at lv5..

So, infinite point does not work in HS (somebody said otherwise)?

I'm my own NPC alt.