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New dev blog: Important Information Regarding the Neural Remap Gift

First post First post
Author
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#81 - 2011-12-14 20:47:01 UTC
/tears

imo they should have reset the gift choice... I'm a bit bummed that I don't even get to choose the remap (my fault for not spending every minute reading the forums, I guess) - now i'm stuck with something that doesn't hold a candle to the value of a remap.

/endtears
Ransom Note
Kicked.
Shadow Cartel
#82 - 2011-12-14 20:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransom Note
Kandreath wrote:
Am I wrong in thinking that this gift has been done VERY quietly?

I would've thought a news or devblog about it in general would be in order. - For myself I found out about it by accident though another player.



Exactly, there are still a ton of lessons to be learned about good comms.

This is like having an important operation coming up for your corp, and doing the following:

[1] Announce it on teamspeak when very few people are there
[2] Post about some amendments in corp mail
[3] Change the date of the op on the corp forum

I hate to say it but, it's not rocket science
Ethino
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2011-12-14 20:53:24 UTC
I'd say that we need to create a forum topic and everybody that had made the choice yesterday to be given a second shot at the remap option.
Prinz Panne
LeGokuFanCorp
#84 - 2011-12-14 20:56:16 UTC
This is how problems are supposed to be solved.

Good job.
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#85 - 2011-12-14 21:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Guard
Ezurae wrote:
GM CiD wrote:
To clarify, the option to choose these bonus remaps, will be available to choose from, from 1600 GMT or server time. The gift of remapping will only be available to redeem on the 22nd of December.


ONLY on 22nd of December?? Does that mean if i can't login on 22nd of December that i wont be able to redeem the bonus remap later??



good work though on the quick change how bonus remaps work


Nope. The remap gift, if selected before the 22nd, will be applied to the highest skilled character on your account on that date. For the item gifts, we don't have any plans to let them expire so they can be redeemed whenever you feel like it as long as the choice was made in time.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#86 - 2011-12-14 21:28:45 UTC
3 x Neural remaps from CCP Santa, thanks for fixing it so quickly.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#87 - 2011-12-14 21:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
EDIT : nevermind, it was already almost completely and clearly answered in a dev reply, but I managed to skip it the first time. Shame on me.

Below full previous text just in case.
___

Ok, I'm slightly confused as to how this is supposed to work now.
So what happens exactly in the following situations IF you pick the +1 free remap gift choice ?

FIRST SITUATION : no leftover bonus remaps, 9 months since last remap, so 3 months until the remap timer expires.

I understand you said the 3 month timer remains in place, but what exactly does that mean ?
Say you use the freshly gifted bonus remap to remap as soon as you get it. So, if I use the bonus remap, I can remap now if I want to (bonus remap would be gone), but the timer remains at 3 months and counting down ? So, basically, I can remap again in 3 months, right ?

But what happens if you DON'T use the bonus remap and wait until the remaining 3 month timer expires ?
Do you get two bonus remaps then, or do you get the regular remap on a certain click and the bonus remap on a separate click ? How do you differentiate between those two ?

What if I already had a few bonus remaps, say 3 - do I get 4 bonus remaps, or does the total number of bonus remaps get all weird ?

And in case you do differentiate between bonus remaps and regular remaps... and if I do get 4 bonus remaps...
...if I already had no timer, does that mean I can use a "regular" remap (starting a 12-month counter) and still keep the 4 bonus remaps afterwards ?!?

...

Sorry, the debvlog raised almost as many questions as it answered as far as I am concerned.
Can a dev please clarify ?

___

End of original text.

Apparently, yes, they are indeed completely separate, and yes, you can keep your free remaps forever even while you remap once a year.
AWESOME.
If I read the clarification correctly, that is.

...

The only question still remaining is if I'll really get
3 (pre-existing) +1 (Christmas 2011 bonus)
= total of 4 (four) bonus remaps if I pick this option ? Twisted

(since apparently I do get to remap now and still keep all bonus ones, since I have no timer rolling, mwahaha)
Laedy
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#88 - 2011-12-14 22:26:15 UTC
Thank you for dealing with this swiftly and with great communication CCP Guard
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#89 - 2011-12-14 22:49:49 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Ezurae wrote:
GM CiD wrote:
To clarify, the option to choose these bonus remaps, will be available to choose from, from 1600 GMT or server time. The gift of remapping will only be available to redeem on the 22nd of December.


ONLY on 22nd of December?? Does that mean if i can't login on 22nd of December that i wont be able to redeem the bonus remap later??



good work though on the quick change how bonus remaps work


Nope. The gift, if selected before the 22nd, will appear in the redeeming system on that date. We don't have any plans to let it expire though so you can safely redeem it later when it's convenient for you Blink



Apologies if this has already been answered, but do we get to choose which character on the account receives the remap?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#90 - 2011-12-14 22:50:53 UTC
Kandreath wrote:
Am I wrong in thinking that this gift has been done VERY quietly?

I would've thought a news or devblog about it in general would be in order. - For myself I found out about it by accident though another player.




Well there's a devblog, a sticky in general discussion and an advert on the login screen when you start EVE.

That seems fairly public.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Seitsuke
Perkone
Caldari State
#91 - 2011-12-14 23:02:17 UTC
Devs,

The one concept that I believe remains unclear to many, including myself, is this:

What happens in the case of characters who have not expended their existing "Bonus" remaps, and how many of those remaining are considered "Bonus"? As the architecture did not previously differentiate between the two types, or even initiate any sort of timer to reclaim a "Normal" one if you had accumulated one or more bonus remaps, I believe people are curious as to how the new system relates.

CCP Pleognost wrote:

* You will be able to instantly remap by using a "bonus remap" - these are the same as the remaps that newbies receive when they create their characters. When switching to the new system, you will keep any bonus remaps you had previously, and these will never expire.


This is a great example to clarify. If this is true and the remaps on a new account are considered as "Bonus," where does the "Normal" one come into play? Will new accounts still have two bonus remaps, in addition to the "Normal" one that will initiate their remap timer (1+2)?

Similarly, in my own case... if I have one initial bonus remap remaining (I used my first bonus remap six months ago, and my second two months ago, but obviously I have no timer to reflect either of these)--and excluding the gift--will my existing count be considered 1+1 (1+2 with gift)? Or will I lose a bonus remap and have it taken down to 1+0 (1+1 with gift selection)?

Naturally, I am concerned that I may have to expend all 3 of what were considered gift/bonus remaps in order to begin my regular remap timer.

Having said that, thank you all so much for your painstaking and exhaustive efforts on our behalf. It is truly appreciated.
Ransom Note
Kicked.
Shadow Cartel
#92 - 2011-12-14 23:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransom Note
Malcanis wrote:
Kandreath wrote:
Am I wrong in thinking that this gift has been done VERY quietly?

I would've thought a news or devblog about it in general would be in order. - For myself I found out about it by accident though another player.




Well there's a devblog, a sticky in general discussion and an advert on the login screen when you start EVE.

That seems fairly public.


Doesn't change the fact that for about 48 hours everyone I personally spoke to about this had not idea about it. Most players don't read the dev blog or forums. As far as I can tell the login screen started today, a few days after the gift was available in the management pages.
Adhar Khorin
Projected Effects Industries
#93 - 2011-12-14 23:46:16 UTC
CCP - thanks for the clarity of communication, the explanation, and finding a way to make it work for the denizens of New Eden.

Cheers,

Adhar
ORCACommander
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
#94 - 2011-12-14 23:52:04 UTC
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:
ORCACommander wrote:
ok i approve but i already chose remaps from the selection on the first day of gifts before they were taken down. will i still be receiving the new bonus remaps?


Can any dev/gm comment on this, please!

at least someone pays attention to me :(
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#95 - 2011-12-15 00:12:06 UTC
Ransom Note wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Kandreath wrote:
Am I wrong in thinking that this gift has been done VERY quietly?

I would've thought a news or devblog about it in general would be in order. - For myself I found out about it by accident though another player.

Well there's a devblog, a sticky in general discussion and an advert on the login screen when you start EVE.

That seems fairly public.

Doesn't change the fact that for about 48 hours everyone I personally spoke to about this had not idea about it. Most players don't read the dev blog or forums. As far as I can tell the login screen started today, a few days after the gift was available in the management pages.

Whine much?

As stated by Malcanis, it *was* announced in a devblog. And, it *is* on the login advert, a full SEVEN days before the offer is due to expire.

There is also a big image link on your Account Management page, and relevant posts on a dozen or more fan blogs.

And, contrary to your obvious cluelessness, most players (a) do read the dev blogs and forums, or (b) know someone who does. The dev blogs and forums are the primary method of communications between CCP and the player base.

So, grow up. No one gained any advantage by knowing about the gift offer 48 hours before you. In fact, some people are now unhappy because they feel that they chose their gift (and not the remap) prematurely.
Besbin
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#96 - 2011-12-15 00:20:33 UTC
Seitsuke wrote:
Devs,

The one concept that I believe remains unclear to many, including myself, is this:

What happens in the case of characters who have not expended their existing "Bonus" remaps, and how many of those remaining are considered "Bonus"? As the architecture did not previously differentiate between the two types, or even initiate any sort of timer to reclaim a "Normal" one if you had accumulated one or more bonus remaps, I believe people are curious as to how the new system relates.

CCP Pleognost wrote:

* You will be able to instantly remap by using a "bonus remap" - these are the same as the remaps that newbies receive when they create their characters. When switching to the new system, you will keep any bonus remaps you had previously, and these will never expire.


This is a great example to clarify. If this is true and the remaps on a new account are considered as "Bonus," where does the "Normal" one come into play? Will new accounts still have two bonus remaps, in addition to the "Normal" one that will initiate their remap timer (1+2)?

Similarly, in my own case... if I have one initial bonus remap remaining (I used my first bonus remap six months ago, and my second two months ago, but obviously I have no timer to reflect either of these)--and excluding the gift--will my existing count be considered 1+1 (1+2 with gift)? Or will I lose a bonus remap and have it taken down to 1+0 (1+1 with gift selection)?

Naturally, I am concerned that I may have to expend all 3 of what were considered gift/bonus remaps in order to begin my regular remap timer.

Having said that, thank you all so much for your painstaking and exhaustive efforts on our behalf. It is truly appreciated.


I can answer that for ya:

All of your present remaps are considered "bonus". You DO have a timer, you just can't see it. This timer gives you a new remap in another 10 months (12 months after you spent your last remap). Right now you have 1 and if you pick the gift you will have 2. This doesn't affect the timer.
Ransom Note
Kicked.
Shadow Cartel
#97 - 2011-12-15 00:24:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransom Note
Sizeof Void wrote:
Ransom Note wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Kandreath wrote:
Am I wrong in thinking that this gift has been done VERY quietly?

I would've thought a news or devblog about it in general would be in order. - For myself I found out about it by accident though another player.

Well there's a devblog, a sticky in general discussion and an advert on the login screen when you start EVE.

That seems fairly public.

Doesn't change the fact that for about 48 hours everyone I personally spoke to about this had not idea about it. Most players don't read the dev blog or forums. As far as I can tell the login screen started today, a few days after the gift was available in the management pages.

Whine much?

As stated by Malcanis, it *was* announced in a devblog. And, it *is* on the login advert, a full SEVEN days before the offer is due to expire.

There is also a big image link on your Account Management page, and relevant posts on a dozen or more fan blogs.

And, contrary to your obvious cluelessness, most players (a) do read the dev blogs and forums, or (b) know someone who does. The dev blogs and forums are the primary method of communications between CCP and the player base.

So, grow up. No one gained any advantage by knowing about the gift offer 48 hours before you. In fact, some people are now unhappy because they feel that they chose their gift (and not the remap) prematurely.


I'm not bothered about anyone finding anything out before me, that's just your straw man I'm afraid. I'm simply saying that this is bad comms - even now people are still asking for clarification about specifics (if you bothered to read the thread). Pulling the remap and not noting anything about it on the management pages is more bad comms that went on to create more problems as you rightly point out. Had everyone read about it here we wouldn't have a problem would we - so not everyone reads these pages. Where's your problem?
Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#98 - 2011-12-15 01:55:55 UTC
So, in my case:

(1) 2 remaps from character creation
(2) spent one to remap about 11 months ago; 1 left
(3) gained another from Incarna, net 2 left

If I don't pick the neural remap bonus, what happens in (say) 1 month, when I reach 12 months from my last remap:
(a) I end up with 2 bonus remaps plus a "normal" remap?
(b) I end up with 2 bonus remaps?

I assume that if I do pick the bonus, I end up with whatever was listed above +1 bonus.

(PS: question on existing code: I was told by a GM that as long as I have these bonus remaps I won't get a normal one; was this correct historically?)


My understanding of the new code is that bonus remaps are now exactly that - a completely free bonus that is unrelated to the timer in any way (not even to reset it like bonus remaps used to). Correct?

(If this works out how I think it will, I'll end up with +2 remaps - one from the bonus, and one from going 12 months from my last remap that I thought was lost because I still had bonus remaps! Yay!)


Final question: I assume that no attempt will be made to grandfather bonus remaps into the new system? Eg: the remap I spent 10 months ago was a bonus one from character creation - my remap counter still starts from then, not 4 months previously when I created my character.

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?

Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#99 - 2011-12-15 02:26:43 UTC
Ransom Note wrote:

I'm simply saying that this is bad comms - even now people are still asking for clarification about specifics (if you bothered to read the thread). Pulling the remap and not noting anything about it on the management pages is more bad comms that went on to create more problems as you rightly point out. Had everyone read about it here we wouldn't have a problem would we - so not everyone reads these pages. Where's your problem?

There is nothing wrong with people asking for clarification about specifics. That is the purpose of communicating via forums, rather than only via news posts. CCP devs have been doing a great job in responding in a timely fashion to the issues raised by the players, and providing the requested clarification. This is not "bad comms".

CCP has also done a fine job on posting an updated dev blog on this topic, summerizing most of the issues previously raised in this thread and others.

My "problem" is with folks who simply cannot acknowledge when a mistake was fixed effectively and efficiently, and still feel the need for further criticism. Get over it. CCP did an exceptional job in responding to this issue.

Sure, there are still many bugs and issues in the game, but player communication is no longer one of them - at least, not in this particular case. And, if you, I, or others, cannot be bothered to read the dev blogs or forums, in which CCP has taken pains to improve communications with the players, then that is entirely our failure, not CCP's.
Ransom Note
Kicked.
Shadow Cartel
#100 - 2011-12-15 02:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransom Note
Sizeof Void wrote:
Ransom Note wrote:

I'm simply saying that this is bad comms - even now people are still asking for clarification about specifics (if you bothered to read the thread). Pulling the remap and not noting anything about it on the management pages is more bad comms that went on to create more problems as you rightly point out. Had everyone read about it here we wouldn't have a problem would we - so not everyone reads these pages. Where's your problem?

There is nothing wrong with people asking for clarification about specifics. That is the purpose of communicating via forums, rather than only via news posts. CCP devs have been doing a great job in responding in a timely fashion to the issues raised by the players, and providing the requested clarification. This is not "bad comms".

CCP has also done a fine job on posting an updated dev blog on this topic, summerizing most of the issues previously raised in this thread and others.

My "problem" is with folks who simply cannot acknowledge when a mistake was fixed effectively and efficiently, and still feel the need for further criticism. Get over it. CCP did an exceptional job in responding to this issue.

Sure, there are still many bugs and issues in the game, but player communication is no longer one of them - at least, not in this particular case. And, if you, I, or others, cannot be bothered to read the dev blogs or forums, in which CCP has taken pains to improve communications with the players, then that is entirely our failure, not CCP's.


I defend my right to point out where they are lacking and won't be gagged by you crying about it. These things should be summarised, bullet pointed or FAQ'd at the point at which the choices are made, the account management page. They still aren't effectively covered (although it's improved) and instead many players are left to scour the forums to piece together the information that pertains to their particular case. It's bad comms, you get over it and stop defending failure. I'll applaud CCP when they get it right, and point out when they get it wrong - as we all should. Perhaps you could stop jumping all over anyone who doesn't hold your point of view, it's not like I post on the forums much now is it?