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@ CCP, why do you have rules that you refuse to enforce?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#121 - 2011-12-14 20:58:53 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I got a warning within about 5 minutes of flipping baiters cans in a nub system when I was trying to put a stop to some bads picking on noobs. These cowards refused to fight me and instead tried to petition me as baiting noobs myself. I got it all sorted out quickly and havent seen those guys about for some time. I guess they got butthurt that they couldn't get easy kills anymore and quit.

And no, I wasn't talking about noob systems in my previous post.



This is an example of griefing - using the petition system to make false charges.

People who do that should be banned from the game so hard their computer should have boot.ini issues.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jita Alt666
#122 - 2011-12-14 21:01:28 UTC
Dear CCP. You know that things are back on track when the gutter trolls come out with their make High Sec PVP free whine threads. Well done.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#123 - 2011-12-14 21:04:16 UTC
Actually, Lady Spank, if they were can-baiting in a rookie system, they were more than likely quietly banned when the circumstances of their petition were investigated. Smile

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Prince Kobol
#124 - 2011-12-14 21:04:47 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

No it isn't.


Iif I'm following someone from system to system and podding him for no other purpose than to constantly destroy his ship and disrupt his gameplay, that is griefing.

I direct you to the Terms of Service:

Quote:

You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.



At what point does that say I must not destroy somebodies ship?

In which case the goons are disrupting my game play by constantly destroying my hulks and macks and laughing at me in local for no other reason then because they want to.

Corp A have war dec me are disrupting my game play because every time I undock they blow me up

Corp B is ruining my game play because if I do not pay them 1 trillion isk to mine in any belt in system they blow up my ships

Null Sec Alliance C keep blowing me up every time I enter their space for no other reason then they don't like me

Get the point yet?

At no point in the Terms of Service does it say you must not continue to destroy the same person ships for no other reason then you want to.

Why is this, because you always have the option to fight back.
Freezehunter
#125 - 2011-12-14 21:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

No it isn't.


Iif I'm following someone from system to system and podding him for no other purpose than to constantly destroy his ship and disrupt his gameplay, that is griefing.

I direct you to the Terms of Service:

Quote:

You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.


That is a load of bullshit.

I recently had this douchebag that war decced every single corporation I joined, just so that he could catch me doing missions in my Machariel or Nightmare and kill me, because apparently someone that I pissed off in Jita was paying him to do it.

I hopped corps so many times to avoid that, that my employment history doubled in a few days, and this is a 2006 char...

Made a petition, because the game rules say that specific targeting of a player is griefing/harassment, and the GMs both told me the same thing: It's in the game rules.

I even showed them the eve mails and chat logs I had with the guy, in which he said that he was being paid specifically to target me and wardec me, and make my employment history grow, and disrupt my gameplay.

So yeah, CCP is full of ****, they might as well remove that from the EULA.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#126 - 2011-12-14 21:05:44 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Arlbash Dested wrote:
Ok, CCP, time to create two Eves - in one, anything goes. Another would have no PvP, only in special areas, like most MMO's.
Have players pick one or another.

If you pick "PvP optional" the downloader installs the Hello Kitty Online client



I would like to challenge all of the LEET PVPers to petition for a no-clone permanent death server. You get popped, you're done. Period.

After all, EvE is supposed to be so harsh that the LEET crowd worships at the feet of the harshness concept, and makes it the wellspring from which all of their excuses flow.

Therefore, let's put the balls where the keyboards are, and go "no clone".

Play in a game like that, then we can push the e-peen.

Otherwise, it's just a game and everybody should just shut up and play it.



PVPers, as you put it, are quite comfortable playing by the rules we have by and large, and are not generally the one's looking for an alternative set of rules to play by.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jita Alt666
#127 - 2011-12-14 21:06:45 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
I got a warning within about 5 minutes of flipping baiters cans in a nub system when I was trying to put a stop to some bads picking on noobs. These cowards refused to fight me and instead tried to petition me as baiting noobs myself. I got it all sorted out quickly and havent seen those guys about for some time. I guess they got butthurt that they couldn't get easy kills anymore and quit.

And no, I wasn't talking about noob systems in my previous post.



This is an example of griefing - using the petition system to make false charges.

People who do that should be banned from the game so hard their computer should have boot.ini issues.




Anything bad is griefing?
Prince Kobol
#128 - 2011-12-14 21:11:30 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

No it isn't.


Iif I'm following someone from system to system and podding him for no other purpose than to constantly destroy his ship and disrupt his gameplay, that is griefing.

I direct you to the Terms of Service:

Quote:

You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.


That is a load of bullshit.

I recently had this douchebag that war decced every single corporation I joined, just so that he could catch me doing missions in my Machariel or Nightmare and kill me, because apparently someone that I pissed off in Jita was paying him to do it.

I hopped corps so many times to avoid that, that my employment history doubled in a few days, and this is a 2006 char...

Made a petition, because the game rules say that specific targeting of a player is griefing/harassment, and the GMs both told me the same thing: It's in the game rules.

I even showed them the eve mails and chat logs I had with the guy, in which he said that he was being paid specifically to target me and wardec me, and make my employment history grow, and disrupt my gameplay.

So yeah, CCP is full of ****, they might as well remove that from the EULA.


So instead of fighting back you decided to run away Roll

If you have a Nightmare and Mach then pretty sure you have enough isk to jump into disposals frigs and go and have some fun for a few weeks.

Also show in the EULA where it states that a person can not hold you ransom?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#129 - 2011-12-14 21:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

No it isn't.


Iif I'm following someone from system to system and podding him for no other purpose than to constantly destroy his ship and disrupt his gameplay, that is griefing.

I direct you to the Terms of Service:

Quote:

You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.



I think you quoted the wrong part of the TOS to make your point.

Also, if someone is in the circumstances you describe above, and they petition it, CCP would likely investigate it.

If the aggressor responds "I did it because he pissed me off" he'd likely be told to cease or be banned.

If the aggressor responds "I have a contract to bring in his corpse for a reward from another player, and he keeps getting his pod out" most likely nothing would be done. NOR SHOULD IT BE.

CCP needs to exercise its own discretion in these matters. The ONLY example they have given as comparison is the obvious one about can baiting in noob systems, and that was done for a reason.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#130 - 2011-12-14 21:13:29 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:

At what point does that say I must not destroy somebodies ship?

In which case the goons are disrupting my game play by constantly destroying my hulks and macks and laughing at me in local for no other reason then because they want to.

Corp A have war dec me are disrupting my game play because every time I undock they blow me up

Corp B is ruining my game play because if I do not pay them 1 trillion isk to mine in any belt in system they blow up my ships

Null Sec Alliance C keep blowing me up every time I enter their space for no other reason then they don't like me

Get the point yet?

At no point in the Terms of Service does it say you must not continue to destroy the same person ships for no other reason then you want to.

Why is this, because you always have the option to fight back.


The Goons are blowing up any ship that are in the ice-belts. Corp A has wardec'ed you -- again, not griefing (otherwise, I could petition any Amarrian or Caldari player on the same rationale). As for the nullsec alliance, you flew into nul and didn't watch whose turf you were flying into. It happens, and it's not griefing.

None of those examples are of actions that are directed specifically at you and nobody else -- each one of them is a situation that can and does happen to almost everyone that plays EVE.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Freezehunter
#131 - 2011-12-14 21:15:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Prince Kobol wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

No it isn't.


Iif I'm following someone from system to system and podding him for no other purpose than to constantly destroy his ship and disrupt his gameplay, that is griefing.

I direct you to the Terms of Service:

Quote:

You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.


That is a load of bullshit.

I recently had this douchebag that war decced every single corporation I joined, just so that he could catch me doing missions in my Machariel or Nightmare and kill me, because apparently someone that I pissed off in Jita was paying him to do it.

I hopped corps so many times to avoid that, that my employment history doubled in a few days, and this is a 2006 char...

Made a petition, because the game rules say that specific targeting of a player is griefing/harassment, and the GMs both told me the same thing: It's in the game rules.

I even showed them the eve mails and chat logs I had with the guy, in which he said that he was being paid specifically to target me and wardec me, and make my employment history grow, and disrupt my gameplay.

So yeah, CCP is full of ****, they might as well remove that from the EULA.


So instead of fighting back you decided to run away Roll

If you have a Nightmare and Mach then pretty sure you have enough isk to jump into disposals frigs and go and have some fun for a few weeks.

Also show in the EULA where it states that a person can not hold you ransom?




Actually, me and my corp did try to fight the ***** back, but OBVIOUSLY all he did was dock up and play dock games when we went for him, and he would only come out when I was in a mission or something, so I got tired of station camping the cowardly ***** and just joined the noob corp and he left me alone after a few weeks.

There is no way to fight back against these bitches, they can single handedly **** up your gameplay if they want to.

If you want to fight back, you can't, if you want to just **** it and have some fun for a change, they come from under their rock and attack you.

I was this close to rage quitting Eve, but then i played Skyrim for 2 weeks and the rage went away, along with the *****.

I won't say his name here because unlike him, I am not an ******* in game.

Never have been, never will be.


Also, the two ships were on loan from a friend, and I was supposed to use them to do missions and pay back my friend for them, and i had to be very careful not to lose them.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not rich in Eve and I don't have as much time to play as I'd like to, in order to make a lot of ISK.
For someone with a job and a wife, it's impossible to make any real isk in this game with only one character...

And having some douchebag griefing you specifically all the time when you are trying to play after coming back from work isn't really a good incentive to keep paying for your subscription...

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Prince Kobol
#132 - 2011-12-14 21:19:33 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

At what point does that say I must not destroy somebodies ship?

In which case the goons are disrupting my game play by constantly destroying my hulks and macks and laughing at me in local for no other reason then because they want to.

Corp A have war dec me are disrupting my game play because every time I undock they blow me up

Corp B is ruining my game play because if I do not pay them 1 trillion isk to mine in any belt in system they blow up my ships

Null Sec Alliance C keep blowing me up every time I enter their space for no other reason then they don't like me

Get the point yet?

At no point in the Terms of Service does it say you must not continue to destroy the same person ships for no other reason then you want to.

Why is this, because you always have the option to fight back.


The Goons are blowing up any ship that are in the ice-belts. Corp A has wardec'ed you -- again, not griefing (otherwise, I could petition any Amarrian or Caldari player on the same rationale). As for the nullsec alliance, you flew into nul and didn't watch whose turf you were flying into. It happens, and it's not griefing.

None of those examples are of actions that are directed specifically at you and nobody else -- each one of them is a situation that can and does happen to almost everyone that plays EVE.


Just like somebody paying a third party to have you killed x number of times.

Or just like somebody constantly coming after you because you are flying fail fit faction BS or T3 ships in missions and are easy prey.

You Quoted the EULA, not me, and no where in the EULA does it state I can come after and kill x number of times until if I am paid to do or if you insist on flying badly fitted expensive ships in missions or any other number of reason that I could just make up on the spot.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#133 - 2011-12-14 21:20:32 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
I recently had this douchebag that war decced every single corporation I joined, just so that he could catch me doing missions in my Machariel or Nightmare and kill me, because apparently someone that I pissed off in Jita was paying him to do it.


Actually he was probably war decing you because you mission in a Nightmare/Machariel and told you someone paid him to do it for his own entertainment; and to be honest, you'd look sexy on his killboard. Motivation Achieved.

Fact is, all the examples of 'griefing' given thus far all fall into specifically designed GAME MECHANICS. If you don't like it, play something else. This is a PvP game, players kill players. Ships get exploded. People have fun. Hi-Sec space is for people not ready to play the game, its training wheels mate. Take those off and go have fun.

If a small handful of people can stop you from enjoying the game, you really need to stop looking at them, and start looking at yourself and your corp. Your allowing it to happen, so it does happen.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#134 - 2011-12-14 21:22:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:


Actually, me and my corp did try to fight the ***** back, but OBVIOUSLY all he did was dock up and play dock games when we went for him, and he would only come out when I was in a mission or something, so I got tired of station camping the cowardly ***** and just joined the noob corp and he left me alone after a few weeks.

There is no way to fight back against these bitches, they can single handedly **** up your gameplay if they want to.

If you want to fight back, you can't, if you want to just **** it and have some fun for a change, they come from under their rock and attack you.

I was this close to rage quitting Eve, but then i played Skyrim for 2 weeks and the rage went away, along with the *****.

I won't say his name here because unlike him, I am not an ******* in game.

Never have been, never will be.




Why didn't you simply face him in your mission?
Have your corp mates keep an eye out in case he tried to bring friends?
Face him in your Mach so that he wouldn't be able to specifically tank for your damage type?
I"m sorry, but you weren't griefed, you were simply too timid to face him.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2011-12-14 21:28:20 UTC
maybe i'll thrasherpod people in jita this weekend for a few hours it's much more pure griefing

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#136 - 2011-12-14 21:28:32 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

No it isn't.


Iif I'm following someone from system to system and podding him for no other purpose than to constantly destroy his ship and disrupt his gameplay, that is griefing.

I direct you to the Terms of Service:

Quote:

You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.


That is a load of bullshit.

I recently had this douchebag that war decced every single corporation I joined, just so that he could catch me doing missions in my Machariel or Nightmare and kill me, because apparently someone that I pissed off in Jita was paying him to do it.

I hopped corps so many times to avoid that, that my employment history doubled in a few days, and this is a 2006 char...

Made a petition, because the game rules say that specific targeting of a player is griefing/harassment, and the GMs both told me the same thing: It's in the game rules.

I even showed them the eve mails and chat logs I had with the guy, in which he said that he was being paid specifically to target me and wardec me, and make my employment history grow, and disrupt my gameplay.

So yeah, CCP is full of ****, they might as well remove that from the EULA.



someone is being paid to get your corpse. He's a merc, you're the target.

This is a valid business transaction, and you sending the mails to the GMs actually hindered your case rather than helped it.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#137 - 2011-12-14 21:30:08 UTC
the podkills on this page from my destroyer alt were for no reason other than to grief those I podded and I derived absolutely no ingame profit or advantage in any way for suiciding them: https://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/Retar%20Aveymone

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#138 - 2011-12-14 21:33:00 UTC
i acted out of pure malicious intent in order to make those I podded miserable

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#139 - 2011-12-14 21:33:56 UTC
and let it be noted i did not even do it for the leet killmails as implants on pods weren't in yet

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Freezehunter
#140 - 2011-12-14 21:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:


Actually, me and my corp did try to fight the ***** back, but OBVIOUSLY all he did was dock up and play dock games when we went for him, and he would only come out when I was in a mission or something, so I got tired of station camping the cowardly ***** and just joined the noob corp and he left me alone after a few weeks.

There is no way to fight back against these bitches, they can single handedly **** up your gameplay if they want to.

If you want to fight back, you can't, if you want to just **** it and have some fun for a change, they come from under their rock and attack you.

I was this close to rage quitting Eve, but then i played Skyrim for 2 weeks and the rage went away, along with the *****.

I won't say his name here because unlike him, I am not an ******* in game.

Never have been, never will be.




Why didn't you simply face him in your mission?
Have your corp mates keep an eye out in case he tried to bring friends?
Face him in your Mach so that he wouldn't be able to specifically tank for your damage type?
I"m sorry, but you weren't griefed, you were simply too timid to face him.


Of course I didn't want to face him in the Mach or Nightmare.

He would most likely stay cloaked in a force recon, or a Curse or something, wait for me to have full room aggro (because I speed and range tank my Mach, and it has basically no tank, so if I stop moving I am ******.), then web and scramble me and wait for the rats to do the rest while orbiting me really fast and close so I can't track him.

Not only would I lose a 1.6 bil Mach, but I would lose a 1.6 bil Mach that is not even mine.

When I take those things to level 4 missions, I do that because there is NO way of losing them to NPCs, I have elite certificates in every weapon system and tank system in the game, excluding capital stuff, but I can't do that when a player is actively hunting me.

I thought about PVP fitting the mach, but that would make it crap for the mission.

Buffer tank + gank: He'd just wait for rats to chew on it before attacking.
Supertank: he'd nos me or neut me in a Curse for sure.
full gank: He'd just let the rats do the work while webbing and scrambling me.
Wait for him with my cloaked corp mates: Who knows how ******* long it would take, and I don't have time for this because it's not fun.

So I decided to just quit for about 2 weeks and he left me alone.

Well, he probably left me alone also because my corp declared war on itself with about 5 alt corps, so war deccing us would cost a lot more.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.