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[Suggestion] Give the Revelation a resist bonus like the Phoenix
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Mr Hyde113
#1 - 2014-11-04 20:07:38 UTC
Quote:
Revelation:

The Revelation represents the pinnacle of Amarrian military technology. Maintaining their proud tradition of producing the strongest armor plating to be found anywhere, the Empire's engineers outdid themselves in creating what is arguably the most resilient dreadnought in existence.

Added to that, the Revelation's ability to fire capital beams makes its position on the battlefield a unique one. When extended sieges are the order of the day, this is the ship you call in.

Amarr Dreadnought bonuses (per skill level):
10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret activation cost
5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret rate of fire
Role Bonus:
• Can fit Siege modules


*emphasis added
---

As it stands, the Chimera, Archon, Wyvren, Aeon, and Phoenix all have resistance bonuses, with the oddity being the Revelation. Now that force projection has been nerfed, and smaller scale capital engagements are more possible than ever, I ask that CCP seriously consider replacing the Revelation's (outdated) 10% reduction in cap usage bonus with a 4% resistance bonus in-line with the rest of the Amarr/Caldari capitals. Doing this will make the Phoenix and Revelation the "lower damage, higher resilience" dreads, with the Nag and Moros being the "higher damage, lower resilience" dreads.

Were this to be implemented, CCP should also consider building the cap usage reduction partially into the guns (perhaps a flat 25% reduction vs. the 50% it currently provides at level 5). This way the Rev would still be cap hungry to balance the natural advantages of lasers.

I have proposed this idea in the past, but I think in light of the sweeping changes introduced in Phoebe, the bonus change makes more sense than ever.

Thank you for your consideration,

-Mr Hyde
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-11-05 09:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
Revelation has 8% more armor and one more low slot than a Moros, hence the description.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-11-05 12:41:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassius Invictus
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Revelation has 8% more armor and one more low slot than a Moros, hence the description.


And it's still useless anyway... OP has given one of the most obvious and easy ways to fix Rev. "+" form me.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2014-11-05 12:45:26 UTC
How about we hope devs can put a bit more thought into 1 of only four ships in the class rather then making just an armor alternative to another one

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The 16.8km Bubble
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-11-05 14:10:22 UTC
I think the main issue (not the only) with the rev is the x-large lasers. It doesn't have all the major advantages its smaller counterparts have over other weapon systems due to lack of scorch.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-11-05 15:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
Weapon cap usage bonuses are worse than the devil.

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#7 - 2014-11-05 15:23:01 UTC
they need to remove resist bonuses off the carriers .. it would certainly help with the repping problem

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Yi Hyori
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-11-05 15:38:47 UTC
I can get behind this. Revs are pretty bad though in general.

Something something vertical superiority. ( Even though I fly Moros and Phoenix )
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#9 - 2014-11-05 16:05:02 UTC
Rowells wrote:
I think the main issue (not the only) with the rev is the x-large lasers. It doesn't have all the major advantages its smaller counterparts have over other weapon systems due to lack of scorch.


That may sound silly but standard crystals only have a little less range as scorch crystals. They may not have the increased damage of scorch but they use the least amount of capacitor of all crystals and I don't believe that damage is lacking at that gun size.

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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#10 - 2014-11-05 16:16:48 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
I don't believe that damage is lacking at that gun size.


Damage is the only thing the Revelation IS lacking. It has the best capacitor life, a beast of a buffer tank and can fit a very competitive active tank also.

The issue with the gun dreads is that CCP buffed blasters too much. They are now hands down the best close ranged weapons system on any dreadnaught out to something like 40kms. The Moros is too good, plain and simple.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-11-05 16:40:49 UTC
The problem with the Revelation is the metagame, not the hull itself.

The issue is the only thing that matters on a dread right now is DPS. Tank is not relevant, and all dread fits begin with 3 damage mods. This is because right now dreadnaught use is all about getting the target dead ASAP and getting out before 50 supercaps get dropped on you.

If the tank of dreads was actually relevant and people fit them like battleships, just with capital reppers in place of plates, the Revelation would be pretty good. The Moros would have 3 hardeners, DCU, Reactive Armor Hardener, capital repper, and then either a magstab or a second repper. The Revelation would have the same fit except it would also have the option of fitting a second heatsink or two reppers plus heatsink. Same tank + slightly less DPS, or better tank with less DPS. Beam Revs would flat out outperform Rail Moroses, if those were to ever get used.
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#12 - 2014-11-05 18:45:49 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
Weapon cap usage bonuses are worse than the devil.
You don't use those weapons, then. Without that bonus, a completely passive-tanked Revelation could only fire for a few minutes. If you replace the cap use bonus with an armor resist bonus, you're simply a brick that there's no reason to shoot at, because the ship won't do much of anything on field after a short period of time.

The Maller, for example, really needs that bonus in order to compete with the other race's damage cruisers. Not having that bonus forces one of your mids to being a cap booster, so you basically only have two mid slots.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-11-06 07:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassius Invictus
I fly Moros and Reve and as it is there is no reason to fly Rev at all. Moros vs. Rev has:

1) more native dmg,
2) much more real dmg (double dmg bonus)
3) less cap use for guns (even with Rev on 5)
4) it's effective range is only slightly lower then Rev but with much more dmg
5) has one les low slot, but extra mid for either cap regen or dmg application.

Other dread vs. Rev have:

1) Phoenix: insane tank (both active and passive), broken weapon system.
2) Naglfar: very good tank (active) and great dmg and dmg application.
Gosti Kahanid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2014-11-06 09:50:42 UTC
Build the 50% Cap usage into the guns itself (like you did with large Lasers). With this Lasers still use much more cap than Blasters. Maybe increase the optimal and Falloff of XL-Lasers by 10-15% to give them more Range compared to XL-Hybrids, that would even the lower Damage out.

Now with the Cap-usage build in to the weapons you won´t need it on the hull and can replace it with a armor-resist Bonus.
The Rev will still have low DMG compared to other Dreads, but like the Phoenix it will be extremly Tanky
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-11-06 11:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Give it a damage bonus, swap the Phoenix's resist bonus out for a damage bonusrate of fire bonus for missile velocity bonus, fix capital lasers so they aren't absolute ****, then add a second set of dreadnoughts with defense and range bonuses instead of damage and rate of fire bonuses.

Amarr:
+10% laser optimal range
-4% armor resistances

Caldari:
+10% hybrid optimal range
-4% shield resistances
+10% hybrid optimal range
+5% hybrid rate of fire

Gallente:
+10% fighter bomber control range
+7.5% armor repair

Minmatar:
+15% projectile falloff
+7.5% shield boost

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Ix Method
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-11-06 12:21:04 UTC
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Weapon cap usage bonuses are worse than the devil.
You don't use those weapons, then. Without that bonus, a completely passive-tanked Revelation could only fire for a few minutes. If you replace the cap use bonus with an armor resist bonus, you're simply a brick that there's no reason to shoot at, because the ship won't do much of anything on field after a short period of time.

The Maller, for example, really needs that bonus in order to compete with the other race's damage cruisers. Not having that bonus forces one of your mids to being a cap booster, so you basically only have two mid slots.

That presumes they wouldn't rebalance the weapons when taking away the bonus which, yes, would be completely mental.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Mr Hyde113
#17 - 2014-11-08 19:37:32 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
The problem with the Revelation is the metagame, not the hull itself.

The issue is the only thing that matters on a dread right now is DPS. Tank is not relevant, and all dread fits begin with 3 damage mods. This is because right now dreadnaught use is all about getting the target dead ASAP and getting out before 50 supercaps get dropped on you.

If the tank of dreads was actually relevant and people fit them like battleships, just with capital reppers in place of plates, the Revelation would be pretty good. The Moros would have 3 hardeners, DCU, Reactive Armor Hardener, capital repper, and then either a magstab or a second repper. The Revelation would have the same fit except it would also have the option of fitting a second heatsink or two reppers plus heatsink. Same tank + slightly less DPS, or better tank with less DPS. Beam Revs would flat out outperform Rail Moroses, if those were to ever get used.



Now that force projection has been nerfed and smaller scale battles can actually happen without everyone in eve dropping on you, it makes sense that having tankier dreads like the phoenix and hopefully the rev. Yeah in massive battles it prob won't make a huge difference but it could still help by helping them coast out of siege or swap out an EANM for more damage.

10% cap is just useless and unfair when all the other dreads have useful second bonuses. Its like if the moros had a 10% reload time reduction on its guns so it could have 5 second reload at level 5 lol.