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Breaking News: No more SP loss and clone grades

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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#141 - 2014-11-08 18:57:37 UTC
skar23
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2014-11-08 18:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: skar23
Ama Scelesta wrote:


The main reason SP loss seems to exist these days is so people could tell themselves how hardcore EVE is with permanent SP loss, even though it hardly ever happens with podding in the normal course of gameplay. The fact no one opposed to the removal of the loss could come up with sensible arguments in favor of keeping the practice was a clear sign the whole thing was ready for the scrapyard. The mere existence of medical clones is also a clear indication CCP didn't really want people to suffer from it either at any point, since they made full protection from SP loss available to the players from day one. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole mechanic was copied from another game from the start and EVE just inherited the stupid thing out of tradition instead of a consequence of proper game design with specific goals.

Good riddance to the pointless mechanic and yay for fatter wallets and more fun in cheap throwaway ships.

March rabbit wrote:
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
And people with highskill points immediately rejoiced and jumped into Rifters

let me guess: next reason to not jump to rifter would be implants? Cool

Easy to fix. Allow local clone jumps with no cooldown. Allows you to leave your clone with unwanted implants at home whenever you need to go out, but don't want to take advantage/risk them.



this is spot on ! this will make the game a more easy to stay with thing rather than something a person might bitterly regret having gotten involved in it - the fun factor will increase and really that is what it is all about...
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#143 - 2014-11-08 19:00:57 UTC
no cooldown on local jump clones would be siiiick.

allow multiple jump clones at the same station, at least. right now the best you can do is stations in the same system.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#144 - 2014-11-08 19:17:20 UTC
Yeah... multiple jumpclones in one station would be nice.

I keep most of mine in the same system. So right now in order to keep from blowing up my implants I end up doing crap like...

warp and dock at station that I have 8.0 standings with. Hopefully there isn't a jumplone there...
make new jumpclone
go to jump clone window
see what stations my jumpclones are in
undock
choose a random station that I don't have a jumpclone at
warp and dock
jumpclone back to the station I was just in, where I made the new clone
undock in shiny new empty jumpclone
warp back to my primary station in that system so I can get back into a proper ship
trash any reapers the other stations just gave me
phew, done.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#145 - 2014-11-08 19:41:35 UTC
the worst part is having to make sure each rookie ship isn't fit with a cyno before trashing it.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#146 - 2014-11-08 19:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Barakach
There's been a few pages already and haven't noticed a link
o7: The EVE Online Show. Episode 2 - Published on Nov 7, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0aRE4BBg0I#t=785
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#147 - 2014-11-08 20:42:45 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
It's the same clowns asking for the same things; "make it easier, make it take less effort because that's better somehow".

Yeah, because clicking through a menu that upgrades my clone when I die qualifies as effort and not busywork with a tax.

when you buy stuff on market - this is busywork
when you fit your ships - this is busywork
.....

let's remove it all?

No, buying stuff on the market and fitting ships is not busywork. It involves complex tradeoffs, decisions, interactions between players, and requires a certain level of thought and planning. Clone upgrades involve none of these things. There's never any confusion about which clone to buy unless you're a newbie and didn't take two seconds to ask. There's never a compelling reason not to upgrade your clone.

It's literally "I just died, here's a few extra clicks I have to do that I could do in my sleep" and the fact that you or anyone else is defending the mechanic because you think it adds risk or complexity is laughable.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#148 - 2014-11-08 21:35:12 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
hey cool, it doesn't matter if you die anymore




That's my concern too. Dieing should matter. Otherwise we may as well re spawn in our station with our ship and equipment intact too like they do in other games too.


If it's meaningless to die, if loss isn't painful, then how the **** do you hurt the enemy?

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#149 - 2014-11-08 21:38:20 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
hey cool, it doesn't matter if you die anymore




That's my concern too. Dieing should matter. Otherwise we may as well re spawn in our station with our ship and equipment intact too like they do in other games too.


If it's meaningless to die, if loss isn't painful, then how the **** do you hurt the enemy?


Their ship exploded and their implants are gone?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#150 - 2014-11-08 21:41:20 UTC
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#151 - 2014-11-08 21:42:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
hey cool, it doesn't matter if you die anymore




That's my concern too. Dieing should matter. Otherwise we may as well re spawn in our station with our ship and equipment intact too like they do in other games too.


If it's meaningless to die, if loss isn't painful, then how the **** do you hurt the enemy?


Their ship exploded and their implants are gone?
my worry is that eve is moving in a direction where one day that will stop too.

I'm not against the removal of clone grades per se but death has to be painful.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#152 - 2014-11-08 21:46:44 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
my worry is that eve is moving in a direction where one day that will stop too.

I'm not against the removal of clone grades per se but death has to be painful.


Ship and item destruction underpins the entire economy of EVE. They will never remove it and as such, you will always feel the pain of losing your implants, your ship and everything on it. This is no slippery slope.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#153 - 2014-11-08 21:55:34 UTC
I have a feeling the clone tier removal was done to prime us for something very violent, relating to SP.

like racial splits for T2 skills, possibly even support skills.

without clone tiers, there's no reason for a player to object to suddenly having 4x the SP after a redistribution.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#154 - 2014-11-08 22:00:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
my worry is that eve is moving in a direction where one day that will stop too.

I'm not against the removal of clone grades per se but death has to be painful.


Ship and item destruction underpins the entire economy of EVE. They will never remove it and as such, you will always feel the pain of losing your implants, your ship and everything on it. This is no slippery slope.


I've seen a lot of things removed over the years that we were all assured wouldn't be changed. Plus if you are in a ship replacement program then someone else is paying for your loss, so is it really loss?

My old alliance even compensated you for lost modules and implants if you were flying their doctrine fits. My point is that most people buy their own clones. I'm not aware of an alliance that pays for clones.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#155 - 2014-11-08 22:05:14 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:


I've seen a lot of things removed over the years that we were all assured wouldn't be changed. Plus if you are in a ship replacement program then someone else is paying for your loss, so is it really loss?


Because those ships cost nothing for the alliance. Incidentally, I don't get SRP on my ships so try again.
Mharius Skjem wrote:

My old alliance even compensated you for lost modules and implants if you were flying their doctrine fits. My point is that most people buy their own clones. I'm not aware of an alliance that pays for clones.


What exactly is there to gain from a death tax that costs more than most t1 cruiser fits?

It's unnecessary and adds nothing to the game.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#156 - 2014-11-08 22:14:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:


I've seen a lot of things removed over the years that we were all assured wouldn't be changed. Plus if you are in a ship replacement program then someone else is paying for your loss, so is it really loss?


Because those ships cost nothing for the alliance. Incidentally, I don't get SRP on my ships so try again.
Mharius Skjem wrote:

My old alliance even compensated you for lost modules and implants if you were flying their doctrine fits. My point is that most people buy their own clones. I'm not aware of an alliance that pays for clones.


What exactly is there to gain from a death tax that costs more than most t1 cruiser fits?

It's unnecessary and adds nothing to the game.


You're in the GSF and don't get SRP.

you're bosses must hate you.

I don't care about the clone costs as I've already mentioned, but death has to be painful. I've suggested that ccp should set up a game mechanic to prevent people using their station like a cod re spawn point.

a timer perhaps, or sp loss for repeated dying within a certain time frame. Idk but death should be painful and tactically important.

By all means get rid of the costs of clones but let's keep some risk of loss when you lose them.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#157 - 2014-11-08 22:16:56 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
I'm not aware of an alliance that pays for clones.

Okay... What's to stop them from doing so?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2014-11-08 22:19:33 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:


You're in the GSF and don't get SRP.

you're bosses must hate you.


To the degree that they named a fleet doctrine after me.

Mharius Skjem wrote:

I don't care about the clone costs as I've already mentioned, but death has to be painful. I've suggested that ccp should set up a game mechanic to prevent people using their station like a cod re spawn point.


We lose our ship and implants, both of wich will most likely cost a lot more than a clone.

Mharius Skjem wrote:


By all means get rid of the costs of clones but let's keep some risk of loss when you lose them.


When I get podded it means I have lost my billion isk in implants and my ship. Slapping on a 20-50 mil clone tax does not add risk to this, its just a pointless tax.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#159 - 2014-11-08 22:26:18 UTC
So what you are saying is that your bosses don't pay for your losses despite the fact that you've had a doctrine named after you.

Man you'll forgive my scepticism, but I know a lot of good people in the GSF and they all get srp for flying doctrine ships on sanctioned ops.

I'd join but work keeps me too busy for fleet ops.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#160 - 2014-11-08 22:28:56 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
I'm not aware of an alliance that pays for clones.

Okay... What's to stop them from doing so?


Agreed, haven't heard of one that does. Some offer srp on official ops, with the proviso that you take out insurance to pay for the modules etc.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...