These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Phoebe] Long Distance Travel Changes - updates!

First post First post First post
Author
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#2001 - 2014-11-05 22:25:06 UTC
An hour is more than enough time for shenanigans :)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2002 - 2014-11-06 05:57:36 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Spreading belts? He didn't say spreading belts, he said gates, and having one go through to the other side for each gate, just on the off chance that the guy they can see in local but can't see on scan is a cloaked up cap scout, and the cap is going to land on grid shortly thereafter.

And all of that was going to be done in less than 10 seconds after they'd gotten into the system the scout was in, which is interesting considering the last time I checked you're usually visible for a few seconds before you've actually loaded system enough to actually do anything like warping to the next gate.

And it would have to be done for each and every system they enter and they see a hostile, on the off chance there's a cap inbound. Roll

You all missed the most obvious flaw in this mythical scenario.
Zero in local, then an entire fleet jumps in. This means the fleet is jumping blind since they have no scouts ahead of the main fleet. Otherwise your scout would have encountered their scout, giving you an addition 30+ seconds to log off at least.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2003 - 2014-11-06 08:28:47 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Spreading belts? He didn't say spreading belts, he said gates, and having one go through to the other side for each gate, just on the off chance that the guy they can see in local but can't see on scan is a cloaked up cap scout, and the cap is going to land on grid shortly thereafter.

And all of that was going to be done in less than 10 seconds after they'd gotten into the system the scout was in, which is interesting considering the last time I checked you're usually visible for a few seconds before you've actually loaded system enough to actually do anything like warping to the next gate.

And it would have to be done for each and every system they enter and they see a hostile, on the off chance there's a cap inbound. Roll

You all missed the most obvious flaw in this mythical scenario.
Zero in local, then an entire fleet jumps in. This means the fleet is jumping blind since they have no scouts ahead of the main fleet. Otherwise your scout would have encountered their scout, giving you an addition 30+ seconds to log off at least.

I did actually think it, but it got lost somewhere down along facepalm avenue, but you're absolutely right in making sure it's mentioned. Otherwise someone'd probably go "A HA! YOU MISSED THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING JON SNOW!", given the history of this thread so far.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#2004 - 2014-11-06 12:24:31 UTC
So.... Did all the caps unsob or did they all get ganked? I know it was one or the other.

What happened ????

Is it over ????
Anthar Thebess
#2005 - 2014-11-06 12:26:58 UTC
Even if they unsubbed more people resubbed , as online is raising .
More changes that will actually brake the big blue N3 and it will be at more high levels.
Dsparil Mal
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#2006 - 2014-11-06 17:50:14 UTC
Ok I like Phoebe overall. It's nice. Capital nerfs and whatnot are gtg, but the jump fatigue with the POS jump bridges needs to go away. I can understand fatigue for a capital ship and similar, but putting fatigue on someone while they're in their pod just because their using the POS bridge defeats the entire purpose. I mean the POS jump bridges are restrictive enough in the type of ship that go through them I think that works in itself. The whole point of the POS jump bridge is to allow for easier travel amongst alliance members and blues for systems they control. It's one of the perks to having SOV. I think this is one of the things that needs to be reverted back to its original state. Way too much of that Mosquito-Buzzing-In-Your-Ear type of annoying with the POS JB jump fatigue. The bridges might as well not be there. Everything else looks cool to me.

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!

Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#2007 - 2014-11-06 18:01:10 UTC
The jump fatigue mechanics were designed to limit the travel speed of jumping whether by ship or bridge. So they don't need to go. People just need to understand that this wasn't a cap ship nerf, it was a travel speed nerf. And it appears to be working.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2008 - 2014-11-06 18:57:22 UTC
nerfing supers is awesome and make a interesting future but the fatigue on Jump Bridge is a headshot for many many small gang warfare in defensive position.

this force offensive roam and static defense on staging system. Defensive interception (af, cruiser or bc) gang with JB fatigue are dramatically nerfed with no reason.

why not allow defensive fleet to intercept hostiles roaming in our land?

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2009 - 2014-11-06 19:27:42 UTC
Sbrodor wrote:
nerfing supers is awesome and make a interesting future but the fatigue on Jump Bridge is a headshot for many many small gang warfare in defensive position.

this force offensive roam and static defense on staging system. Defensive interception (af, cruiser or bc) gang with JB fatigue are dramatically nerfed with no reason.

why not allow defensive fleet to intercept hostiles roaming in our land?


you can. You just cant go back and forth in the JB willy nilly
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#2010 - 2014-11-06 19:31:15 UTC
Sbrodor wrote:
nerfing supers is awesome and make a interesting future but the fatigue on Jump Bridge is a headshot for many many small gang warfare in defensive position.

this force offensive roam and static defense on staging system. Defensive interception (af, cruiser or bc) gang with JB fatigue are dramatically nerfed with no reason.

why not allow defensive fleet to intercept hostiles roaming in our land?



I wouldn't be surprised if they eased up the fatigue on jump bridges after they introduce the sov changes. Once the space that any given alliance/coalition holds starts to shrink the range that the JB network can span will shrink. Once that has shrunk the effect of moving through it quickly will be less important to slow down.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2011 - 2014-11-06 20:47:11 UTC
Yup. Once empires stabilize, maybe some change. Want to defent large borders, get more organized forces. Every issue brought up has been a case of make it easy to control half of null where our alliance only uses six systems and moonmines the rest or rents. Gonna be tough not having massive isk fountain from small groups.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#2012 - 2014-11-06 21:33:41 UTC
Doubt you'll see any letting up on the jump fatigue. They might make it worse though. Remember what they are looking for as an end result. Coalitions with much smaller footprints that have to divide their forces up to defend their borders. This isn't happening yet...most are still clining to the pre-phoebe meta. Gonna take some time to see results.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2013 - 2014-11-07 03:19:27 UTC
Niskin wrote:
The jump fatigue mechanics were designed to limit the travel speed of jumping whether by ship or bridge. So they don't need to go. People just need to understand that this wasn't a cap ship nerf, it was a travel speed nerf. And it appears to be working.

Not a travel speed nerf. That was one of my proposals. Travel time is instant.

Sometimes getting rid of something by greatly reducing its usage just means that there was something broken about it but no one could be bothered to figure out what or to face fixing it. Instant travel brings big problems but if you make it happen less so that the problem is seen less, maybe you can convince everyone that you fixed the problem. I always advocate looking to the root of the problem though: instant jump travel time.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2014 - 2014-11-07 03:58:14 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
Niskin wrote:
The jump fatigue mechanics were designed to limit the travel speed of jumping whether by ship or bridge. So they don't need to go. People just need to understand that this wasn't a cap ship nerf, it was a travel speed nerf. And it appears to be working.

Not a travel speed nerf. That was one of my proposals. Travel time is instant.

Sometimes getting rid of something by greatly reducing its usage just means that there was something broken about it but no one could be bothered to figure out what or to face fixing it. Instant travel brings big problems but if you make it happen less so that the problem is seen less, maybe you can convince everyone that you fixed the problem. I always advocate looking to the root of the problem though: instant jump travel time.

yes a travel speed nerf. going from point A to point B anywhere outside of 5LY has just increased in time. They specifically mentioned how they didnt want to curb short distance and tactical use as much as they wanted to kill obscene distance travel. Its the repeated use over long ranges that was the target. not instant teleportation to the system next door, or else long regional gate gate jumps would have been nerfed too.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#2015 - 2014-11-07 05:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: OldWolf69
I just miss the predicted great content. The small alliances invading all over. Magnificient capital gatecamps. All the declarations of happyness from all capsuleers being freed of the liberty of travel, and, most of all, of the use of own sov advantages.
But i see a lot of happyness from a lot of botters being freed of hotdrops, ratters farting rainbows from anom to anom and grinding all over. Some guys extending their blue donut because this made it actually safer.
Not to mention all the happyness and joy of using null space just like hisec travel wise, wich really made the day of absolutely all sovholders. They really wanted to see all their travel improvements going to ****.
Generally, this game starts to feel just like a communist country, full of dumbasses wich think real happyness is not their happyness, just the lack of happyness of their neighbour, no matter how poor you need to become while making your neighbour unhappy. Or how stupid.
Pls tell me more how beneficient and good for our gameplay travel punishment is. Amaze me some more.
Be my working class hero!
LolLolLol
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2016 - 2014-11-07 08:02:07 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
Niskin wrote:
The jump fatigue mechanics were designed to limit the travel speed of jumping whether by ship or bridge. So they don't need to go. People just need to understand that this wasn't a cap ship nerf, it was a travel speed nerf. And it appears to be working.

Not a travel speed nerf. That was one of my proposals. Travel time is instant.

Travel time for 5LY is 0 seconds. Travel time for 10LY is 6 minutes. Travel time for 15LY is 12 minutes. 20LY is 44 minutes, 25 is 3h52m.

Hardly instant.

Andy Landen wrote:
Sometimes getting rid of something by greatly reducing its usage just means that there was something broken about it but no one could be bothered to figure out what or to face fixing it. Instant travel brings big problems but if you make it happen less so that the problem is seen less, maybe you can convince everyone that you fixed the problem. I always advocate looking to the root of the problem though: instant jump travel time.

As shown above, it's hardly instant if you look at more than 5LY.
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#2017 - 2014-11-07 14:04:17 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
Not a travel speed nerf. That was one of my proposals. Travel time is instant.

Sometimes getting rid of something by greatly reducing its usage just means that there was something broken about it but no one could be bothered to figure out what or to face fixing it. Instant travel brings big problems but if you make it happen less so that the problem is seen less, maybe you can convince everyone that you fixed the problem. I always advocate looking to the root of the problem though: instant jump travel time.


As has been pointed out by others, the jump cooldown timer and jump range adjustments don't agree with your assessment of what kind of nerf this is. Seriously, are you still clinging to this idea that pilots would prefer A over B:

A: Jump to final destination, watch warp tunnel until you get there, able to do nothing during trip except drop out of jump to somewhere in between.

B: Jump to destination immediately, do whatever you want when you get there while waiting out jump timer and as much fatigue as you choose to burn down before the next jump on your way to the final destination

I'm all for determining root causes, but you seem to be missing it here. Instant jump travel time isn't the root problem. Instant jump travel time over LONG DISTANCES is. CCP's solution fixes the actual root problem, your proposal is a poor solution to the wrong part of the problem.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Josef Djugashvilis
#2018 - 2014-11-07 14:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Utter tosh deleted.

This is not a signature.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#2019 - 2014-11-07 14:22:17 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Yup. Once empires stabilize, maybe some change. Want to defent large borders, get more organized forces. Every issue brought up has been a case of make it easy to control half of null where our alliance only uses six systems and moonmines the rest or rents. Gonna be tough not having massive isk fountain from small groups.



I hope you meant empire SIZE stabalizes. If you mean empires/coalitions stabalize... you need to let go of that. "Stabalize" is what was driving subs down, so I'm thinking anything that tends towards 'stable empires' is gonna get knee-capped somewhere down the road we are travelling.

Big picture.... no meaningful PVP.... no reason to log in..... other games get played (or Eve gets played via call out).

Stabalize = NOT GOOD
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2020 - 2014-11-07 14:33:36 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
Yup. Once empires stabilize, maybe some change. Want to defent large borders, get more organized forces. Every issue brought up has been a case of make it easy to control half of null where our alliance only uses six systems and moonmines the rest or rents. Gonna be tough not having massive isk fountain from small groups.



I hope you meant empire SIZE stabalizes. If you mean empires/coalitions stabalize... you need to let go of that. "Stabalize" is what was driving subs down, so I'm thinking anything that tends towards 'stable empires' is gonna get knee-capped somewhere down the road we are travelling.

Big picture.... no meaningful PVP.... no reason to log in..... other games get played (or Eve gets played via call out).

Stabalize = NOT GOOD

Yup, meant size. All the logistics stuff etc. Are two groups out there. The big groups already soved and vets like me who want it. Massive alliances wont be able to fight two or more fronts across a hundred lightyears of coalition. So I see tons of new guys harassing. Subcap raiding groups harassing with reinforcement timers and others looking to carve off a slab. Small fights everywhere as sizes shrink and the massive coalitions reconsolidate to managable and defendable space. Massive fights I see falling off but eventually borders will press in and the old frontline WARS will kick up again. Smaller space, same scale, fewer caps. Less space means more difficult to support large war machine so the guys that can get blue and work witj industry will be able to outpace the iskers.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.