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Machariel - DPS versus falloff
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Altair Taurus
#1 - 2014-11-06 15:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
I'd like to know your opinions about finding viable equilibrium between DPS and falloff range in case of Machariel. I read Machariel was nerfed a bit both directly (pirate BS rebalance) and indirectly (Tracking Enhancer nerf) lately so now I am not sure what damage at what range this battleship should deal to be efficient Level 4 mission runner. Any hints?
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#2 - 2014-11-06 15:26:57 UTC
The Machariel I used to run for highsec missions a long time ago now has an optimal + falloff of 3.8 + 61. So that would mean at optimal + 50% falloff it does 80% of its DPS or 864 DPS @ 34.3 km.

[Machariel, Missions]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Gist C-Type Large Shield Booster
100MN Microwarpdrive II

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

It's been a long time so I may be incorrect but that is what I remember.

Not today spaghetti.
Altair Taurus
#3 - 2014-11-06 15:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
I am not sure what you mean so I ask you to clarify your statement: Do you think that Machariel's maximum effective fighting range is now about 35 km from enemy ships in L4 missions?
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#4 - 2014-11-06 15:42:59 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
I am not sure what you mean so I ask you to clarify your statement: Do you think that Machariel's maximum effective fighting range is now about 35 km from enemy ships in L4 missions?


It depends on your definition of effective.

Not today spaghetti.
Altair Taurus
#5 - 2014-11-06 15:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
Simply I do not know how close I should get to enemy ships in Machariel. You know, there are sentry snipers like Dominix capable of striking enemies at more than 100 km range and on the other hand blaster Vindicator fighting at below 20 km distance. I simply do not understand where Machariel belongs... Big smile
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#6 - 2014-11-06 15:54:58 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
Simply I do not know how close I should get to enemy ships in Machariel. You know, there are sentry snipers like Dominix capable of striking enemies at more than 100 km range and on the other hand blaster Vindicator fighting at below 20 km distance. I simply do not understand where Machariel belongs... Big smile


Oh I understand what you are asking now.

For me personally anything further than 40 km is too far away and anything smaller than a battlecruiser is too close inside of 8-10 km.

Not today spaghetti.
Altair Taurus
#7 - 2014-11-06 16:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
That is exactly what I wanted to know! Simply Machariel is rather close range brawler but of course he can stay further away from enemies than blaster Vindicator thanks to his auto-cannon falloff bonus. Thus I can now adjust Machariel's DPS and tracking speed in 10-40 km range interval.
Altair Taurus
#8 - 2014-11-06 22:17:04 UTC
BTW, are Energy Vampires now a viable option in PvE?
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#9 - 2014-11-06 23:06:56 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
BTW, are Energy Vampires now a viable option in PvE?


No

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#10 - 2014-11-07 01:28:17 UTC
Frigs will die round 15-20km with standard ammo, anything bigger will do the same. I can pop frigs at 60km with the fit above. 15km to 30km is where you want to keep your targets for optimal destruction.. imo anyway. I run a 100mn fit that is cap stable with the AB on so I can easily dictate range.

... What next ??
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-11-07 03:17:49 UTC
The Mach is now substantially better than any other BS for running most--maybe all--L4s. The warp speed bonus is killer, especially if you drop a warp speed rig or two on top of that.

The TE nerf is irrelevant for PvE; it just means you fit an active armor tank and TCs instead of a shield tank and TEs. Scripted TCs still give you that critical +30% falloff.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#12 - 2014-11-07 03:23:45 UTC
my mach setup is a little different than the one posted earlier, but I do 1k dps out to around 30km, so I prefer to keep targets inside of that. my general rule of thumb is 12km as someone said that on the forums and well, it has pretty much worked just fine for me. my fit does 1200 dps there, and using keep at range you can keep transversial low. BCs and Cruisers I tend to just shoot at while on the move as their HP is low.

Generally I kill NPC frigs first, and well generally where ever they spawn I do enough damage I will shoot them as soon as I can lock them. and of course I don't like to waste time and just not shoot, but at say 60km I don't want to waste ammo either.

I'm sure it could be more optimized, but meh. I usually tend to only fly the mach on missions with fairly short ranged targets.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#13 - 2014-11-07 03:29:04 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Altair Taurus wrote:
BTW, are Energy Vampires now a viable option in PvE?


No


Yes!

RS utility slot as long as the RS uses drone range rigs.
The single Nos can power XL shield booster to make Omni tanking effective without giving up extra mids.
It's for MWD version only not the MJD version.

Outside of that it has no use in L4's.
Altair Taurus
#14 - 2014-11-07 12:23:17 UTC
OK, I will stay with shield tanked Machariel because my tanking skills are located mainly in shield department. Yes, Machariel can deal insane close range DPS but this needs T2 autocannons with Hail-L ammo which has deplorable falloff. So you use T1 or faction ammo instead?
stoicfaux
#15 - 2014-11-07 13:00:37 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
OK, I will stay with shield tanked Machariel because my tanking skills are located mainly in shield department. Yes, Machariel can deal insane close range DPS but this needs T2 autocannons with Hail-L ammo which has deplorable falloff. So you use T1 or faction ammo instead?

T1. Mainly because it's not worth the time to make the one jump to a market hub and buy more faction ammo.

And, IIRC, because I have a spreadsheet somewhere that didn't show a lot of difference between T1 and faction ammo in terms of efficiency.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#16 - 2014-11-08 09:58:31 UTC
Gorn Arming wrote:
The Mach is now substantially better than any other BS for running most--maybe all--L4s in Minmatar space. The warp speed bonus is killer, especially if you drop a warp speed rig or two on top of that.

The TE nerf is irrelevant for PvE; it just means you fit an active armor tank and TCs instead of a shield tank and TEs. Scripted TCs still give you that critical +30% falloff.


Correct it for you.

But seriously, if you want to run L4 missions (in any space) effectively, get a marauder. EWAR immunity will save you alot of time. Fighting serpentis damps, guristas ecm, blood raiders tracking disruption and cap drain with simply a mach is, nowadays, not optimum. If you live in Minmatar space, then the Mach is still King there. Due to the fact that Angel target paint does not matter at all.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#17 - 2014-11-08 13:33:00 UTC
Gefen Orion wrote:
Gorn Arming wrote:
The Mach is now substantially better than any other BS for running most--maybe all--L4s in Minmatar space. The warp speed bonus is killer, especially if you drop a warp speed rig or two on top of that.

The TE nerf is irrelevant for PvE; it just means you fit an active armor tank and TCs instead of a shield tank and TEs. Scripted TCs still give you that critical +30% falloff.


Correct it for you.

But seriously, if you want to run L4 missions (in any space) effectively, get a marauder. EWAR immunity will save you alot of time. Fighting serpentis damps, guristas ecm, blood raiders tracking disruption and cap drain with simply a mach is, nowadays, not optimum. If you live in Minmatar space, then the Mach is still King there. Due to the fact that Angel target paint does not matter at all.


That's why Lanngisi is so awesome, do missions for SoE which gives the best lp/isk and you'll get mostly Angel + Serpentis missions which are both not a problem for a Mach since as you mentioned painters are a joke and damps don't hurt the Mach as much since it gets in nice and close anyway.
Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#18 - 2014-11-08 15:31:17 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Gefen Orion wrote:
Gorn Arming wrote:
The Mach is now substantially better than any other BS for running most--maybe all--L4s in Minmatar space. The warp speed bonus is killer, especially if you drop a warp speed rig or two on top of that.

The TE nerf is irrelevant for PvE; it just means you fit an active armor tank and TCs instead of a shield tank and TEs. Scripted TCs still give you that critical +30% falloff.


Correct it for you.

But seriously, if you want to run L4 missions (in any space) effectively, get a marauder. EWAR immunity will save you alot of time. Fighting serpentis damps, guristas ecm, blood raiders tracking disruption and cap drain with simply a mach is, nowadays, not optimum. If you live in Minmatar space, then the Mach is still King there. Due to the fact that Angel target paint does not matter at all.


That's why Lanngisi is so awesome, do missions for SoE which gives the best lp/isk and you'll get mostly Angel + Serpentis missions which are both not a problem for a Mach since as you mentioned painters are a joke and damps don't hurt the Mach as much since it gets in nice and close anyway.


Yeah, that's a nice L4 SOE mission system. But still, I'll take the vargur over the mach any day of the week.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2014-11-08 18:25:45 UTC
Vargur does better with faction ammo too due to using nearly half as much so it's more economical.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2014-11-09 01:09:02 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Altair Taurus wrote:
OK, I will stay with shield tanked Machariel because my tanking skills are located mainly in shield department. Yes, Machariel can deal insane close range DPS but this needs T2 autocannons with Hail-L ammo which has deplorable falloff. So you use T1 or faction ammo instead?

T1. Mainly because it's not worth the time to make the one jump to a market hub and buy more faction ammo.

And, IIRC, because I have a spreadsheet somewhere that didn't show a lot of difference between T1 and faction ammo in terms of efficiency.



Been testing that with my own mach. Honestly, the expense on faction ammo isn't worth the time you save.
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