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Now that clone costs are removed, some more suggestions.
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Pie Napple
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-11-06 22:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Pie Napple
I have some suggestions to how i think we could make clones a fun and interesting mechanic.


  • Allow multiple jumpclones in the same station, lets say five
  • Allow anyone to install a jumpclone in a station with cloning services, without standings
  • Ignore the clone jump cooldown when you are switching to a clone in the same station.
  • Increase the cost of installing a jumpclone to match what we currently have for medical clones


This would mean that you can have one gunnery clone, one probing clone , one learning clone and one empty clone in your home system. You can switch between them as much as you want to, as long as they are in the same station. Getting a clone becomes an investment, both in the clonecost and in the implants you put into it. We will probably see recommended clones for doctrines and implants becomes an important strategically important mechanic. Players with higher sp (or anyone for that matter) can still just get into an empty pod, roam around in cheap ships and get podded and wake up in a free, empty, medical clone without having to worry about high clone costs.

This would also make implants more widely used and that would make loosing a pod hurt some more.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-11-06 22:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: SFM Hobb3s
Removing the need for clones outright is an outright bad move. This is a pure example of CCP moving two steps forward and then doing something that sends them two steps back.

They recently adjusted EHP on station services, and to eliminate the need for a clone undermines the tactical advantage of disrupting a station's medical services.

They need to set it up so that there is ONE clone type, which is FREE, but if you are not in a station with WORKING medical services, you cannot upgrade to the free clone, and thus risk losing skillpoints if you undock and get podded.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#3 - 2014-11-06 22:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
At the risk of wails and screams from those who say but it is too easy, why not just shoot the whole implant mechanic in the head.

"You want to swap implants? Sure, go ahead, the surgeons are there now, price? " no charge.

Is is a mechanic that adds no play value, prevents no known abuse, and is simply a pain in the arse for no practical reason now death clones and the costs of death are removed.

In short.
Allow unrestricted swapping of implants, but EVERY implant removed from a slot, must be replaced with another in the same slot or your head collapses.LolCoolShocked

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Pie Napple
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-11-06 22:30:57 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
At the risk of wails and screams from thise who say but it is too easy, why not just shoot the whole implant mechanic in the head.

"You want to swap implants? Sure, go ahead, the surgeons are there now, price? " no charge.

Is is a mechanic that adds no play value, prevents no known abuse, and is simply a pain in the arse for no practical reason now death clones and the costs of death are removed.

In short.
Allow unrestricted swapping of implants, but EVERY implant removed, must be replaced with another or your head collapses.LolCoolShocked


Doesn't that achieve the same thing as having multiple clone, practially? :) I think it sounds easier to have clones prepared and ready to go, just as you do with ships. Having to "refit" your clone before going out on a roam, im not too sure about that. Maybe if we could save implant fittings ;)
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#5 - 2014-11-06 22:33:52 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Pie Napple wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
At the risk of wails and screams from thise who say but it is too easy, why not just shoot the whole implant mechanic in the head.

"You want to swap implants? Sure, go ahead, the surgeons are there now, price? " no charge.

Is is a mechanic that adds no play value, prevents no known abuse, and is simply a pain in the arse for no practical reason now death clones and the costs of death are removed.

In short.
Allow unrestricted swapping of implants, but EVERY implant removed, must be replaced with another or your head collapses.LolCoolShocked


Doesn't that achieve the same thing as having multiple clone, practially? :) I think it sounds easier to have clones prepared and ready to go, just as you do with ships. Having to "refit" your clone before going out on a roam, im not too sure about that. Maybe if we could save implant fittings ;)



Honestly, just removing the whole restriction side altogether, why reintroduce complexity, it is not like you are ballancing cpu,powergrid, and dps.

Take out slot 6 shield, replace with slot 6 armor is hardly rocket science.Smile

Celebrate being freed from the twisted mechanics and enjoy the simplicity

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Pie Napple
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-11-06 22:38:11 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Pie Napple wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
At the risk of wails and screams from thise who say but it is too easy, why not just shoot the whole implant mechanic in the head.

"You want to swap implants? Sure, go ahead, the surgeons are there now, price? " no charge.

Is is a mechanic that adds no play value, prevents no known abuse, and is simply a pain in the arse for no practical reason now death clones and the costs of death are removed.

In short.
Allow unrestricted swapping of implants, but EVERY implant removed, must be replaced with another or your head collapses.LolCoolShocked


Doesn't that achieve the same thing as having multiple clone, practially? :) I think it sounds easier to have clones prepared and ready to go, just as you do with ships. Having to "refit" your clone before going out on a roam, im not too sure about that. Maybe if we could save implant fittings ;)



Honestly, just removing the whole restriction side altogether, why reintroduce complexity, it is not like you are ballancing cpu,powergrid, and dps.

Take out slot 6 shield, replace with slot 6 armor is hardly rocket science.Smile

Celebrate being freed from the twisted mechanics and enjoy the simplicity


It's an interesting idea. I like it. I would really like to see implants being used more. It would be nice to see an price drop too, so that people would feel like it wasnt pointless to use the implants they can actually afford. 1% tracking increase might feel a bit meh and you wont even bother with it.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#7 - 2014-11-06 22:45:00 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Pie Napple wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Pie Napple wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
At the risk of wails and screams from thise who say but it is too easy, why not just shoot the whole implant mechanic in the head.

"You want to swap implants? Sure, go ahead, the surgeons are there now, price? " no charge.

Is is a mechanic that adds no play value, prevents no known abuse, and is simply a pain in the arse for no practical reason now death clones and the costs of death are removed.

In short.
Allow unrestricted swapping of implants, but EVERY implant removed, must be replaced with another or your head collapses.LolCoolShocked


Doesn't that achieve the same thing as having multiple clone, practially? :) I think it sounds easier to have clones prepared and ready to go, just as you do with ships. Having to "refit" your clone before going out on a roam, im not too sure about that. Maybe if we could save implant fittings ;)



Honestly, just removing the whole restriction side altogether, why reintroduce complexity, it is not like you are ballancing cpu,powergrid, and dps.

Take out slot 6 shield, replace with slot 6 armor is hardly rocket science.Smile

Celebrate being freed from the twisted mechanics and enjoy the simplicity


It's an interesting idea. I like it. I would really like to see implants being used more. It would be nice to see an price drop too, so that people would feel like it wasnt pointless to use the implants they can actually afford. 1% tracking increase might feel a bit meh and you wont even bother with it.


Well the market determines the price and with this everyone would want, every slot filled, all the time, there would be more losses, but the losses would be balanced out by the gains, at least you would have Eg. Combat implants in battle and have the gains thereof, rather than losing your mining and industry implants, because you were stuck with them for no good reason.

So benefit to the players, removal of existing disincentive for combat, simplicity, more market activity, isk creation and destruction, all we need to complete it is more player built implants. Suggestion Get the blueprints over +2 from the loyalty point stores, not the finished product.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2014-11-06 22:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
If you don't want to farm standings for JC installation, either join into Null sec, or create a clone or 2 with one of the many JC corps, or get yourself a Rorqual or a Titan. Empire stations are not capsuleer outposts: you are allowed to dock there and use the facilities; it's a privilege, not a right.

-1 to removal of standings for JCs.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-11-06 23:26:32 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Removing the need for clones outright is an outright bad move. This is a pure example of CCP moving two steps forward and then doing something that sends them two steps back.

They recently adjusted EHP on station services, and to eliminate the need for a clone undermines the tactical advantage of disrupting a station's medical services.

They need to set it up so that there is ONE clone type, which is FREE, but if you are not in a station with WORKING medical services, you cannot upgrade to the free clone, and thus risk losing skillpoints if you undock and get podded.


So why wouldn't you just simply jump to another clone then.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2014-11-06 23:45:25 UTC
Now that clone costs are removed...

From your headline OP, when did that happen?

I am aware that CCP Rise was thinking about this and talked about this in Vegas but that didn't happen yet.

Some of you can imagine that at some point, clones become expensive goods. The removal of the clone cost is not a bad step and if you want implants, nobody is stopping you.

Implants are a great isk sink.

I think player made implants would not be a great idea because they don't remove isk from the game but minerals or other materials and we should have enough mineral and other material sink in the game.

What seems to be not the be removable is the hesitation of engaging in ship vs ship combat unless you have 500 buddies on standby - that makes keyboards look bad, so a nono..

Right now I can have 6 clones all over New Eden and I can deal with having one in one station at a time, so can you.

-1

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#11 - 2014-11-06 23:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
elitatwo wrote:
Now that clone costs are removed...

From your headline OP, when did that happen?

I am aware that CCP Rise was thinking about this and talked about this in Vegas but that didn't happen yet.

Some of you can imagine that at some point, clones become expensive goods. The removal of the clone cost is not a bad step and if you want implants, nobody is stopping you.

Implants are a great isk sink.

I think player made implants would not be a great idea because they don't remove isk from the game but minerals or other materials and we should have enough mineral and other material sink in the game.

What seems to be not the be removable is the hesitation of engaging in ship vs ship combat unless you have 500 buddies on standby - that makes keyboards look bad, so a nono..

Right now I can have 6 clones all over New Eden and I can deal with having one in one station at a time, so can you.

-1


They announced it on the o7 stream tonight, no more losing skillpoints when your clone dies,(not the T3 mechanic) the whole mechanic has gone, and if i remember correctly, more changes in pipeline. It seems they are following CCP seagulls philosophy of removing bad, old, and pointless mechanics, that exist, just because they do already.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Plukovnik
Dark Necesstity
#12 - 2014-11-07 00:02:31 UTC
Personally, loss of skillpoints, necessity to upgrade clone - if they cancel it, fine for me, no problem. But every loss of pod must cost money. You have 100 mil. SP and got podded because of flying crappy ship? (or whatever other reason) - No problem, you respawn in your cloning station, EVE automatically withdraws 100 mil. ISK from your wallet.

I believe losing pod should hurt A LOT. Not fatally like losing skillpoints which actually means taking away the time you paid, but losing ISK - 1 ISK for each one skillpoint. That would also make game a bit fair for newbies, because even a new char, its not a problem to make 5 mil. for new pod. But losing 100 mil. is not easily forgettable even for vet. People should care about death... even as immortals (ingame, do no try this at home, pls).
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#13 - 2014-11-07 00:08:00 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
...They announced it on the o7 stream tonight, no more losing skillpoints when your clone dies,(not the T3 mechanic) the whole mechanic has gone, and if i remember correctly, more changes in pipeline. It seems they are following CCP seagulls philosophy of removing bad, old, and pointless mechanics, that exist, just because they do already.


Ouh!

Thank you dear, must take a look at this.

And CCP can I have my 46 million isk back please??

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#14 - 2014-11-07 00:18:09 UTC
Pie Napple wrote:
I have some suggestions to how i think we could make clones a fun and interesting mechanic.


  • Allow multiple jumpclones in the same station, lets say five
  • Allow anyone to install a jumpclone in a station with cloning services, without standings
  • Ignore the clone jump cooldown when you are switching to a clone in the same station.
  • Increase the cost of installing a jumpclone to match what we currently have for medical clones


This would mean that you can have one gunnery clone, one probing clone , one learning clone and one empty clone in your home system. You can switch between them as much as you want to, as long as they are in the same station. Getting a clone becomes an investment, both in the clonecost and in the implants you put into it. We will probably see recommended clones for doctrines and implants becomes an important strategically important mechanic. Players with higher sp (or anyone for that matter) can still just get into an empty pod, roam around in cheap ships and get podded and wake up in a free, empty, medical clone without having to worry about high clone costs.

This would also make implants more widely used and that would make loosing a pod hurt some more.


I have a strong suspicion that the restriction on clones in the same station has a lot to do with the database being unhappy and nothing to do with overall game design choices.
Quesa
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#15 - 2014-11-07 00:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Quesa
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Removing the need for clones outright is an outright bad move. This is a pure example of CCP moving two steps forward and then doing something that sends them two steps back.

They recently adjusted EHP on station services, and to eliminate the need for a clone undermines the tactical advantage of disrupting a station's medical services.

They need to set it up so that there is ONE clone type, which is FREE, but if you are not in a station with WORKING medical services, you cannot upgrade to the free clone, and thus risk losing skillpoints if you undock and get podded.


I disagree but not with the tactical reasoning behind your post. There are a significant portion of players that actively avoid flying some ship types because their clone is worth more than the ship itself. It doesn't make much sense in a 'fostering PvP' type of way. If you want to go out and f-around in a T1 frigate, you're penalty shouldn't be a 50m pod cost if you run into a camp.

As for your suggestion on the cloning, with the pod-jumping change, I don't think that would work out well.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-11-07 07:58:03 UTC
How does this idea fit with Eve's philosophy of earning what you have? You may as well give the new players 100M SP and say "Go for it!".

-1
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-11-07 08:13:31 UTC
Pie Napple wrote:
I have some suggestions to how i think we could make clones a fun and interesting mechanic.


  • Allow multiple jumpclones in the same station, lets say five
  • Allow anyone to install a jumpclone in a station with cloning services, without standings
  • Ignore the clone jump cooldown when you are switching to a clone in the same station.
  • Increase the cost of installing a jumpclone to match what we currently have for medical clones


This would mean that you can have one gunnery clone, one probing clone , one learning clone and one empty clone in your home system. You can switch between them as much as you want to, as long as they are in the same station. Getting a clone becomes an investment, both in the clonecost and in the implants you put into it. We will probably see recommended clones for doctrines and implants becomes an important strategically important mechanic. Players with higher sp (or anyone for that matter) can still just get into an empty pod, roam around in cheap ships and get podded and wake up in a free, empty, medical clone without having to worry about high clone costs.

This would also make implants more widely used and that would make loosing a pod hurt some more.


To 1: No, 1 clone/station is okay you don´t need more.
To 2: Nope, the standing is okay. If you wanna install one clone instant join 0.0.
To 3. Definitive no. If you clonejump then deal with it. Clone jumping is a speed travel, not a save for expensive pods, if you wanna play with dirfferent imps you have to deal with this over the next 19 hours.
To 4: Would be okay with that
Pie Napple
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-11-07 08:51:52 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Pie Napple wrote:
I have some suggestions to how i think we could make clones a fun and interesting mechanic.


  • Allow multiple jumpclones in the same station, lets say five
  • Allow anyone to install a jumpclone in a station with cloning services, without standings
  • Ignore the clone jump cooldown when you are switching to a clone in the same station.
  • Increase the cost of installing a jumpclone to match what we currently have for medical clones


This would mean that you can have one gunnery clone, one probing clone , one learning clone and one empty clone in your home system. You can switch between them as much as you want to, as long as they are in the same station. Getting a clone becomes an investment, both in the clonecost and in the implants you put into it. We will probably see recommended clones for doctrines and implants becomes an important strategically important mechanic. Players with higher sp (or anyone for that matter) can still just get into an empty pod, roam around in cheap ships and get podded and wake up in a free, empty, medical clone without having to worry about high clone costs.

This would also make implants more widely used and that would make loosing a pod hurt some more.


To 1: No, 1 clone/station is okay you don´t need more.
To 2: Nope, the standing is okay. If you wanna install one clone instant join 0.0.
To 3. Definitive no. If you clonejump then deal with it. Clone jumping is a speed travel, not a save for expensive pods, if you wanna play with dirfferent imps you have to deal with this over the next 19 hours.
To 4: Would be okay with that


Did you even read the post? The entire point of the suggestion is to give players the ability to switch out implants quickly by changing clones. You didn't respond to that at all.
Pie Napple
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-11-07 08:58:30 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
If you don't want to farm standings for JC installation, either join into Null sec, or create a clone or 2 with one of the many JC corps, or get yourself a Rorqual or a Titan. Empire stations are not capsuleer outposts: you are allowed to dock there and use the facilities; it's a privilege, not a right.

-1 to removal of standings for JCs.


I would be okay with limiting it to lowsec stations.

Right now, jumpclones are for three groups of people, those with sov in null, those who run missions and grind standings and those with access to rorq/titans.

I would love to see this expanded.

I think a good solution would be to open up for lowsec stations with cloning services to sell clones. The same price as medical clones now sounds about right, so based on SP.

So if you have standings, you can get free jumpclones. If you have null sov or an rorq or titan, you can get one for free. If you don't, you can still get one, but have to pay for it. And if they are the same cost as medical clones are now, they won't be cheap.

I don't think jumpclones should be a privilege, it should be a service.