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Jump fatigue questions...
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Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-11-06 15:51:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
I'll say to start with, I'm perfectly fine with the changes. Sure, can't do some of what I used to do, other things can now be done easier. Have to deal with these things. And I say this as someone who got a Supercap two months ago (doh!)

Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
It's going to force people to change their playstyles, and it may force some people to re evaluate their blue lists in terms of utility as allies versus utility as entertainment for their f1 bunnies.


Hate to point this out, but you are dead wrong. The guy you were replying to was complaining about fatigue on Jump Bridges. Do you know the two things Jump Bridges are used for by nullsec residents? Firstly, travel over distance, which is probably the only thing you are thinking of, and this has been rightfully hammered. But secondly, and far more importantly to nullsec residents, is as a "safe" means of travel within their space; I and many others use (or used) JB's as a "back door" means of moving around home systems, to evade and out-manoeuvre roaming gangs - they were one of the largest benefits to a line-member of owning space, the ability to mould the topography to your own use.

What does this have to do with blue-lists and resetting neighbours? Now that JB's as a means of local travel are gone (which they fundamentally are with the fatigue mechanics), we will have to gate travel when doing anything in our own space, exposing ourselves to hostiles to a far greater extent than used to be the case (and becoming more predictable as known chokepoints are no longer skippable). What makes you think anyone will reset their neighbours when the danger-factor has just climbed for every nullsec resident who lives in their space? (you mentioned PL, and they are a prime example of someone who doesn't live in their space). They wont - having friendly neighbours is still the best way to protect your space, as it minimises the number of guys who can easily roam within it.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2014-11-06 15:59:18 UTC
Foxfire 0031 wrote:
Most ridiculous mechanic ever implemented. I used a bridge 5 times last night now I can't jump for 2 days, maybe ccp should make warping gate to gate instant instead of spending my play time staring at warp and gate effects all night.

lol...
do you want a warlock port next time?

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2014-11-06 16:03:39 UTC
Come2Light wrote:
The only people saying that the jump fatigue change is good are the empire pubbies that it does NOT effect in anyway.

Changes=good.
does that make me a empire pubby?
I probably biomass now (sad panda)

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#44 - 2014-11-06 16:13:23 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
They wont - having friendly neighbours is still the best way to protect your space, as it minimises the number of guys who can easily roam within it.


I see your point, and I will freely admit, my predictions may be as flawed as investing in a Bernie Madoff backed retirement plan, but what I am trying to get at is those extended blue lists. Sure it makes sense to be friendly to your immediate neighbors - they're your buffer zone. But are you necessarily going to continue being friendly to their neighbors or their neighbors' neighbors?

Consider the (very) simple "map" below:

F -- D -- B -- A -- C -- E -- G

Now, if you're a member of group A it absolytely makes sense for you to be allied with group B and group C. But is it really going to make sense for you to be allied with group F and G who are probably two or three regions away when your two groups can no longer easily support each other on the field of battle?

I thnk this is the situation that's going to change. Again, I may be wrong - no longer being part of any nullsec alliance, I can't speak to what the backend deals might look like in the current meta. But to me it doesn't make a lot of sense being allies with people who can't readily assist you and are too far away to provide an effective buffer from attack.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-11-06 16:37:40 UTC
Statement to one point on last page. "Is death of cap and supercap" Is that such a big deal? Sure lose spec trained. However that means since they can travel with fleets, it will go back to subcaps being bread and butter. More lower SP players desired. Will be great for those of us who anticipated and vision of future.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-11-06 16:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Jean Luc makes a good point. Where do neighbours switch from red to blue. What you will see is a new type of allianve. This is a good place for the industrialist to fit. That neutral third party. Essentially, both sides use space. Tough for distant to maintain without organizing or exposing another front. As result, this third party would have open stations, sell stuff both sides in exchange for granting protection from non neighbours. Purely hypothetical but tactically viable. Essentially, These industry alliqnces would act like market hubs. Buying mqnufacturing and selling removing need to haul to empire.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#47 - 2014-11-06 16:47:57 UTC
Come2Light wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Come2Light wrote:
The only people saying that the jump fatigue change is good are the empire pubbies that it does NOT effect in anyway.

'Good' is a matter of perspective. Necessary is not. Additionally this affects everyone who plays the game, including industrialists that never even undock, since it changes how goods are going to flow as well. And certainly affects most people who live in high sec directly since just because someone lives there doesn't mean they never go to low or null & thus are vulnerable to hot drops or that they don't own or make use of jump services at some stage.
So trying to say it doesn't affect people just shows how poor your understanding of how all of EVE is connected is.

Regardless of 'good', this change was needed to slow down force projection. It's possible there was an even better solution somewhere out there, but in over 500 pages of crying, not a single better solution was actually put forward. People either put forward 'proposals' that utterly removed the entire effect of the nerf, or ones that were actually worse, like stranding people inside a jump tunnel for a whole hour (imagine 10 hours in tidi just waiting for your jump to finish when you aren't even in a system).
Not one was actually a real improvement to nerf force projection.

And yes, this was a nerf. It was meant to be a nerf as Force Projection was too powerful for the game CCP wants to have. Deal with that aspect.

I think you have had too much of your own sauce.
The change doesn't effect everyone at all.
Everything empire pubbie need to function has not changed. Industrialists will still get what they need.
Pubbies can still go to low or null sec & they can still use jump freighter services, non of which they themselves will incur jump fatigue or cool down timers.
Yes force projection was/ is a problem but this solution is way over the top, went to far, its not a nerf, its the near extinction of super carriers & titans, made dreads & carriers obsolete.
Subcaps can do caps jobs quicker now because of no timers.
Watch for subscriptions to drop. no need for titans, no need for supercarrier , very limited use for dreads & carriers.
They can all be unsubbed & only activated if home space gets invaded.

CCP needs to increase the jump ranges by 2.5ly & half the fatigue.


and you donlt think that supers and titans pilots and dedicated dread pilots were already unsubbed and waititng for the next big war? BTW post with your main, stop being a whimp

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-11-06 17:12:41 UTC
Since I love talking about myself since that is only experience I got...Back to death and unsub of cap. I trained different. I didnt blitz train but worked myself up. As such, small harass game, I can do. Battleship fleets, check. Going full onslaught? Well no more sitting waiting for subcaps to bridge and get tjere. I can travel with now. The one comparison I see again and again is how badly it busted Jump bridges and it is all the fatigue timer more than range. Sov Jump bridges maybe could use some tweak. I like to view it this wqy. Cyno and bridges now are pretty much emergency and the hot drop when ready. For moving, Time for a bit of zen. Take eve right now. Imagine no jumping ever. people never would have even asked. It would be smaller empires more densely packed. Frontline skirmishes. We are all just spoiled children whose candy got taken away and now is time for dinner.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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