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Crime & Punishment

 
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Newbie killer

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#81 - 2014-11-05 13:15:25 UTC
Nate Hill wrote:
Is he a pedophile?

good to see the posting barr being raised....what the **** is wrong with you.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Frumushika
New Eden Parking Cooperative
#82 - 2014-11-05 14:07:18 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

But from his target selection, it seems more likely that he is/was targeting Ventures, not new players. This is because, despite what you might take away from the continual calls for nerfing suicide ganking in the forums, successfully ganking miners does require some practice and sufficient skills. A brand-new solo ganker will be limited to Ventures and untanked retrievers/covetors in 0.5 space for quite some time so it is expected that an eager new ganker will have to go after softer targets, including newer players, at the beginning of his or her career.


Confirming this is the truth.

But i'll work my way up to bigger and better things as I learn how to do it.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#83 - 2014-11-05 15:00:10 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:


As was said, if he sent you an inappropriate evemail, please petition it and let CCP know.

As to your problem with new players being blown up, you shouldn't worry about it. Unless someone is persistently targeting the same new player so their gaming experience is completely miserable, getting blown up once or twice during the trial is an excellent introduction to Eve gameplay. Ventures can be replaced by even a new player in one or two loads of ore, so losing one is no real loss at all. Much better they loose an easily-replaced Venture, than a Retriever or worse, untanked Hulk a few weeks/months later. Ideally, the ganker would take the time to educate the new player to techniques to avoid a gank (paying attention, d-scan, orbiting the asteroid etc...) and perhaps even replace the ship as I have often done before for new players with a good attitude to the game. But even without this, the lesson that mining is not without risk even in highsec is a good one to teach early when there is not much to lose.

But from his target selection, it seems more likely that he is/was targeting Ventures, not new players. This is because, despite what you might take away from the continual calls for nerfing suicide ganking in the forums, successfully ganking miners does require some practice and sufficient skills. A brand-new solo ganker will be limited to Ventures and untanked retrievers/covetors in 0.5 space for quite some time so it is expected that an eager new ganker will have to go after softer targets, including newer players, at the beginning of his or her career.


Thanks, you made some good points in there.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#84 - 2014-11-05 15:08:24 UTC
Thanks to those who replied reasonably to the OP. You have made some good comments.

And to those that didn't... maybe I'll get to shoot you all one day. repeatedly Roll

In the spirit of C&P, let's hear what the accused has to say. I have replied to his last mail and invited him to the thread.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#85 - 2014-11-05 15:24:15 UTC
For anything that was posted on topic, you got a +1.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2014-11-05 15:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiasa Kite
Thread started off rather bearish, but is actually picking up really well. Kudos to you, for holding a sensible discussion, Kaldi. They're depressingly rare 'round these parts. Have a like.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Cosmic Jihadi
Unbelievable Fuhkeree
#87 - 2014-11-06 01:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Cosmic Jihadi
A bit late to the party here... Shocked

TL;DR I did all the things. I am not sorry. I created a blog, because, this.

RE: The non-consentual PvP bits

I am a new-ish player, so forgive my ignorance, but I didn't realise that popping some ventures would elicit such a strong reaction...

It is true, I was deliberately targeting ventures on the night in question. I gave them every chance to get away... No webs, disruptors or scrams were used in the 'sploding of these ventures. I slowboated across the belt and bumped them. If they didn't run, I shot...

Were they low hanging fruit? Sure... No question. Are those KMs something to print and frame? Not particularly.

Cosmic Jihadi was created with one purpose in mind... eventually ganking some things. Popping ventures doesn't qualify as ganking, but one doesn't come out of the womb ready to run sites in a C5 solo or start up a T2 production line, do they? You have to work your way up to bigger things. You have to learn what works and what doesn't. You have to read, research and more importantly, you have to develop that 'gut feeling'.

One can crunch the numbers, min/max and take just the right amount of ammo, use all the fitting tools in the world to make sure things are being done economically, prep the system, overheat and pre-fire one's weapons and try to accommodate every eventuality... but from what I understand: Every gank is a snowflake... you never know for certain unless you undock and actually do it... and, it's funny. So, in preparation for actually being able to properly 'gank' something, I undocked and popped some ventures using the same theorycraft. I'm not sorry.

As times passes, will I still go out and target ventures? Prior to having this thread created, my answer would've been no... Blink

Re: The zealot bits

It is true that I've a bit of a suspect sense of humour in that the moniker 'Cosmic Jihadi' was chosen because I think it is hilarious... but also because it is inflammatory which increases the potential of some great chatporn (or Crime & Punishment threads).

Post-explosion I left a simple two word phrase in local, 'allah hafiz', the vernacular translation of which is 'Goodbye'. I don't know why it couldn't be printed. Is your keyboard missing those keys? Are you offended when you sneeze and someone says 'god bless you' or just 'bless you'? In modern language those phrases have lost almost all of their 'religious' meaning and are said as a simple matter of courtesy.

Whatever conclusions someone may draw from that after being interpreted by their own pre-existing prejudices and biases is of no concern to me... Moreover, inferring anything from a phrase in a foreign language posted in local chat seems a bit silly to me...

I see space Russians all the time spamming who-knows-what in local and I have never once drawn any conclusions regarding their support (or lack thereof) for violating nation-state boundaries, supplying arms to 'rebels' or shooting down passenger airliners.

As for the in-game mail exchanged between Kaldi Tsukaya and myself... Kaldi initiated this exchange. It contained a sum of zero (0) '4-letter words' and was a joke (though that is wholly irrelevant). He knew exactly what I was doing and he was compelled to contact me to express his displeasure and his beliefs on the topic. I have no problem with that whatsoever, but don't start complaining when you get a reply. It works both ways.

When I get around to it I'll copy the text of the message exchange in question and post it on my brand spanking new blog... unless there is some prohibition against it.

p.s. To be honest Kaldi, I think you are alright. Seeing people stick up for the little fella (even if they were afk) is nice to see...
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#88 - 2014-11-06 05:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaldi Tsukaya
Thank you for accepting my invitation to post in the thread.

Cosmic Jihadi wrote:


RE: The non-consentual PvP bits


Ok, this was my OP.
I still object to killing NEW players who are not aggressing. I always will, that's just the way it is.
These people are the lifeblood for the future of Eve. HTFU should never apply to someone still on their trial run.
They can laugh at getting blapped too, if you just give them the chance. Drop a link or something in local that is more appropriate than "Goodbye"?

Quote:

Re: The zealot bits


RP and Meta as you wish. But bring RL religion into it as a basis for your actions, and you are using the rules to mask your meta in an invulnerable shield. Worse, you know (and display) that anyone who objects to it, can be considered prejudiced. Neither you nor I can reprint the mail you sent me, even in C&P, without breaking the rules. You obviously know it too, else you would not be looking at your external blog to do so.

As you said, things like this do happen in game. And it really is wrong, imho. You cannot use that as a defense for that kind of poor gamesmanship.

I could have, and probably should have, forwarded the mail I received to CCP, and let them deal with it. But I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt. I don't regret that decision, and your post in this thread is confirmation I hoped to see.

Quote:

p.s. To be honest Kaldi, I think you are alright. Seeing people stick up for the little fella (even if they were afk) is nice to see...


Thanks. I never forget that behind every character is a RL person, and that this is a community we all share.

pps.

To be honest, this was worthwhile for me. I learned much, changed some of my views, and (hopefully) contributed something to the C&P forum. This was my first forum thread. Eve bucket-list updatedCool
CODE Agent AC
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#89 - 2014-11-06 09:39:17 UTC
This thread is about new players killing other players right? Because that is what it should be about.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#90 - 2014-11-06 09:47:45 UTC
Cosmic Jihadi wrote:
A bit late to the party here... Shocked

TL;DR I did all the things. I am not sorry. I created a blog, because, this.

RE: The non-consentual PvP bits

I am a new-ish player, so forgive my ignorance, but I didn't realise that popping some ventures would elicit such a strong reaction...

It is true, I was deliberately targeting ventures on the night in question. I gave them every chance to get away... No webs, disruptors or scrams were used in the 'sploding of these ventures. I slowboated across the belt and bumped them. If they didn't run, I shot...

Were they low hanging fruit? Sure... No question. Are those KMs something to print and frame? Not particularly.

Cosmic Jihadi was created with one purpose in mind... eventually ganking some things. Popping ventures doesn't qualify as ganking, but one doesn't come out of the womb ready to run sites in a C5 solo or start up a T2 production line, do they? You have to work your way up to bigger things. You have to learn what works and what doesn't. You have to read, research and more importantly, you have to develop that 'gut feeling'.

One can crunch the numbers, min/max and take just the right amount of ammo, use all the fitting tools in the world to make sure things are being done economically, prep the system, overheat and pre-fire one's weapons and try to accommodate every eventuality... but from what I understand: Every gank is a snowflake... you never know for certain unless you undock and actually do it... and, it's funny. So, in preparation for actually being able to properly 'gank' something, I undocked and popped some ventures using the same theorycraft. I'm not sorry.

As times passes, will I still go out and target ventures? Prior to having this thread created, my answer would've been no... Blink

Re: The zealot bits

It is true that I've a bit of a suspect sense of humour in that the moniker 'Cosmic Jihadi' was chosen because I think it is hilarious... but also because it is inflammatory which increases the potential of some great chatporn (or Crime & Punishment threads).

Post-explosion I left a simple two word phrase in local, 'allah hafiz', the vernacular translation of which is 'Goodbye'. I don't know why it couldn't be printed. Is your keyboard missing those keys? Are you offended when you sneeze and someone says 'god bless you' or just 'bless you'? In modern language those phrases have lost almost all of their 'religious' meaning and are said as a simple matter of courtesy.

Whatever conclusions someone may draw from that after being interpreted by their own pre-existing prejudices and biases is of no concern to me... Moreover, inferring anything from a phrase in a foreign language posted in local chat seems a bit silly to me...

I see space Russians all the time spamming who-knows-what in local and I have never once drawn any conclusions regarding their support (or lack thereof) for violating nation-state boundaries, supplying arms to 'rebels' or shooting down passenger airliners.

As for the in-game mail exchanged between Kaldi Tsukaya and myself... Kaldi initiated this exchange. It contained a sum of zero (0) '4-letter words' and was a joke (though that is wholly irrelevant). He knew exactly what I was doing and he was compelled to contact me to express his displeasure and his beliefs on the topic. I have no problem with that whatsoever, but don't start complaining when you get a reply. It works both ways.

When I get around to it I'll copy the text of the message exchange in question and post it on my brand spanking new blog... unless there is some prohibition against it.

p.s. To be honest Kaldi, I think you are alright. Seeing people stick up for the little fella (even if they were afk) is nice to see...


Link to blog please.Big smile

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Dr Beatrox
Doomheim
#91 - 2014-11-06 10:55:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Beatrox
u guys are all complete idiots. extreme thinkers who cant draw the line dow nthe centre where it should be

veers: guy who thinks shooting spaceships is a form of sociopathy. **** off.
the others: guys who think convoing someone or sending the mmessages just to **** them off is part of 'emergent gameplay'. also **** off.

why cant u guys just be sensible?
ganking a ship, wardeccing a scrub, scamming some dumbass for profits. all part of the game. stop accusing ppl who do that of doing anything wrong, you idiots on the left.
convoing victims for tears, sending messages u know will **** them off, insulting their choice of gameplay. not part of the game. stop being pieces of crap, you idiots on the right.

this isnt very hard. you all suck.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#92 - 2014-11-06 11:02:03 UTC
Dr Beatrox wrote:
u guys are all complete idiots. extreme thinkers who cant draw the line dow nthe centre where it should be

veers: guy who thinks shooting spaceships is a form of sociopathy. **** off.
the others: guys who think convoing someone or sending the mmessages just to **** them off is part of 'emergent gameplay'. also **** off.

why cant u guys just be sensible?
gank a ship, wardec a scrub, all part of the game. stop accusing ppl who do that of doing anything wrong you idiots on the left.
\convoing them for tears, sending messages u know will **** them off, stop insulting their choice of gameplay. stop being pieces of crap, you idiots on the right.

this isnt very hard. you all suck.

if you want your please to have any form of legitimacy you will need to post them from your main.
if you are unwilling to have your name and that of your corp next to it you clearly have no confidence in it so why should we care in the slightest?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Cosmic Jihadi
Unbelievable Fuhkeree
#93 - 2014-11-06 15:09:50 UTC
TIL: People who don't approve of a style of play will always find something about which to complain. Big smile
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#94 - 2014-11-06 15:14:59 UTC
Cosmic Jihadi wrote:
TIL: People who don't approve of a style of play will always find something about which to complain. Big smile

ignore him,
he had a go at us as well for our rp shtic,
its the impotent rage of a coward unwilling to stand by his own words.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#95 - 2014-11-06 15:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Veers Belvar wrote:
What irritates the posters here is that a "proud carebear" dares come on the forums and advocate for a safer and more pleasant highsec.
You've nothing to be proud of tbh. Your attempts to advocate for a safer and more pleasant highsec are ridiculed because they consist entirely of words on the forums and no action in the game; they're also uninformed nonsense and show an astounding ignorance of both game mechanics and the premise of the game itself.

Quote:
Blowing up their ships, leaving them bankrupt, and making them cry is what is driving them away from the game.
CCP Rise is on record as saying that the theory isn't supported by the data they have, although they will try to collect more data on the matter . (Page 31 of the CSM 9 minutes)

CSM 9 Minutes wrote:
Mike and Sugar both raised the thorny issue of new player harassment in starter systems. Mike believes
that a slightly larger non-harassment zone for new players might be a good idea. Sugar pointed out that
new player career agents are one jump outside of protected systems. This leads to people spam duel
invites to new players or getting them to ‘help’ them with tank tests and such. These systems are more
starter systems then the system with Aura in it.

Rise mentioned that this is something he hears a lot but the data CCP has collated doesn’t support the
thesis. Mynnna pointed out that those people are still around. Sugar countered that she has have this
brought to her from her monthly discussions and she has heard it from a lot of players who invite friends
and family to the game or who started with friends and they are the only one left of their friend group
and these are the reasons why their friends left. Spamming duel invites and other forms of new player
baiting are common and confusing to people just starting who have not learned Eve. CCP Skrekkur
suggested CCP would look to gather more data on the issue.
I assume that the 2 CSM members are referring to the single system between a starter system and the closest career agent system, personally I don't have any problems with making those specific systems the same as the starter and career agent systems when it comes to messing with newbies; that's up to CCP though.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#96 - 2014-11-06 18:52:26 UTC
K. Two things.
1) OP and OP's antagonist. Kudos to OP for recognizing antagonist's playstyle. Kudos to Cosmic Jihadi for doing it right.
Seriously.

*deep breath*

2) Veers, til you provide some form of criminal content why don't you and Dr Beatrox both shimmy your asses back to I don't know ANY of the other forums where what you have to say might be relevant?
Seriously, and I mean you Veers, you waltz in here with your tin star on your chest and act like you know stuff... without the slightest hint of self-doubt or humility, and lay down the gospel of YOU on the rest of us.
This is what's stuck in my craw since you first popped your head up in C&P.
Most other folks in here have earned what respect they have through blood and fire and tears, and you walk in like you are the first and foremost authority on what is and what is not... and you wonder why you suffer continuous 'personal attacks', trolling, and whatnot. It's pretty simple, for what you've done is roughly the equivalent to walking into a biker bar and subsequently trying to convert the occupants over to your religion. That trick never works, and honestly usually results in tragedy for those who would be insane enough to try.
Respect in this particular subforum is NOT automatically granted, it is earned, and as far I and (please, anyone of repute feel free to step in here and contradict me) from what I can tell the general populace of C&P can tell, you have done nothing to earn such respect. So, until you have actually done or said something to merit the respect of those who would be willing to accept you as their peers, your opinion in these parts is going to be worth somewhat less than pod goo polluted with weird white floaty things.
This is not a troll, this is dead serious. The denizens of C&P live by fire and blood, not pissing and moaning.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#97 - 2014-11-06 19:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
K. Two things.
1) OP and OP's antagonist. Kudos to OP for recognizing antagonist's playstyle. Kudos to Cosmic Jihadi for doing it right.
Seriously.

*deep breath*

2) Veers, til you provide some form of criminal content why don't you and Dr Beatrox both shimmy your asses back to I don't know ANY of the other forums where what you have to say might be relevant?
Seriously, and I mean you Veers, you waltz in here with your tin star on your chest and act like you know stuff... without the slightest hint of self-doubt or humility, and lay down the gospel of YOU on the rest of us.
This is what's stuck in my craw since you first popped your head up in C&P.
Most other folks in here have earned what respect they have through blood and fire and tears, and you walk in like you are the first and foremost authority on what is and what is not... and you wonder why you suffer continuous 'personal attacks', trolling, and whatnot. It's pretty simple, for what you've done is roughly the equivalent to walking into a biker bar and subsequently trying to convert the occupants over to your religion. That trick never works, and honestly usually results in tragedy for those who would be insane enough to try.
Respect in this particular subforum is NOT automatically granted, it is earned, and as far I and (please, anyone of repute feel free to step in here and contradict me) from what I can tell the general populace of C&P can tell, you have done nothing to earn such respect. So, until you have actually done or said something to merit the respect of those who would be willing to accept you as their peers, your opinion in these parts is going to be worth somewhat less than pod goo polluted with weird white floaty things.
This is not a troll, this is dead serious. The denizens of C&P live by fire and blood, not pissing and moaning.


Well, I'm not a fire and blood guy, I'm a proud PvE focused "carebear." I am entitled to express my opinions in compliance with pertinent forum rules, and will continue to do so. I don't think committing crimes "entitles" you to respect, and have no intention of altering my gameplay style. I will continue to call out the personal attacks and trolling, both of which violate forum rules, and should hopefully lead to appropriate disciplinary action being taken.

So no, I will not leave this forum, I will not alter my views, and I will continue to make on topic and relevant posts, free of trolling or personal attacks, and call out those who violate forum rules.

Edit - also note the 32 page thread in this subforum about killing me, which suggests that I do in fact belong in this specific forum, and need to repudiate false charges against me.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#98 - 2014-11-06 19:26:32 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


Well, I'm not a fire and blood guy, I'm a proud PvE focused "carebear." I am entitled to express my opinions in compliance with pertinent forum rules, and will continue to do so. I don't think committing crimes "entitles" you to respect, and have no intention of altering my gameplay style. I will continue to call out the personal attacks and trolling, both of which violate forum rules, and should hopefully lead to appropriate disciplinary action being taken.

So no, I will not leave this forum, I will not alter my views, and I will continue to make on topic and relevant posts, free of trolling or personal attacks, and call out those who violate forum rules.

damit omar and jonah! ye woke him up!

well given that
Quote:
Well, I'm not a fire and blood guy, I'm a proud PvE focused "carebear."

the sum total of your posting in this sub forum would fall under trolling.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#99 - 2014-11-06 19:32:10 UTC
^^ Don't blame me, as far as I can tell he's either got me blocked or just ignores my posts completely, he certainly doesn't respond to any of them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#100 - 2014-11-06 19:34:33 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
^^ Don't blame me, as far as I can tell he's either got me blocked or just ignores my posts completely, he certainly doesn't respond to any of them.


Not at all....I've already answered nearly all of the points you raise, and prefer short crisp arguments so I don't need to write a wall of text.