EVE General Discussion

Such sad. Someone is forcing you to grind? Why would you play a game that feels like a job in the first place. My free time is too valuable for this kind of stuff, if I have time to play I usually do it to have some fun.

Also all the crackpottery in this thread is seriously funny. I can only speak for myself, but apart from exploding and bumping mining ships I have absolutely nothing to do with mining or ore business. When I started I had a budget of 2bil ISK, this has increased within one year to 12bil ISK and this was with solo ganking and bumping alone, without taking advantage of the SRP offered by James 315 or anyone else.

From my experience, the tanked and non-AFK solo Procurer/Skiff pilot is probably the miner who has the lowest risk of being ganked. It usually takes a bunch of gankers to take them down, but then you usually also have the firepower to simply kill the Orca next to them. This pilots have already accepted that Highsec is a dangerous place and have done their homework to protect themselves, which is actually why we do this in the first place.

I never encountered a bot using a high profile setup like a Skiff/Procurer swarm. The bot fleets I encountered in Highsec usually use a bunch of Retrievers which individually operate in the belts and warp back to station to offload their cargo. If you "work" with the miners like we do it is very easy to discover bots because of their behaviour. I ganked whole fleets of them usually even with support of the local miners and reported them to CCP. They will usually vanish a few weeks after the report.

The multiboxer fleets which somehow get called bots in this thread are something completely different. This are the swarms of Procurer/Skiffs usually with Orca and Freighter support. They usually depend on the Orcas corp hangar for the ore/ice transfer to the Freighter. All it takes is a single 100MN Stabber or similar bumper ship to completely disrupt any number of such fleets in a belt. The main bulk of my income actually comes from this kind of disruption gameplay, it's not exactly obvious why, but that does not have to concern you anyway .

I am sure all the crackpots in this thread with their limited understanding of the game will still claim this is some elaborate scheme to control the market. The truth is usually a lot easier and straight forward.

But maybe I just write this to cover up our real intentions .

More botters are getting banned using the Venture because CCP is able to catch them early on. It doesn't mean that the ship is more popular by any means.

The "no effort" claim is mis-characterizing the amount of work, that at least some people have to do to successfully gank. There are non-trivial amounts of logistics, scouting and planning that are necessary to pull of the ganking of profitable capital haulers, not the mention of the effort to wrangle together dozens of players and the cost of their time. For the pure F1-pushing ganker, the gank itself isn't that difficult, but for the transport logistics, bumpers, FC, and scouts it is work to prepare, identify and hold a target and then pull off a gank successfully.

Solo ganking is much simpler, both on logistics and execution, but is also less profitable. After years of constant nerfs, ganking miners is barely profitable unless you are lucky enough to find a pimped out ship, and while ganking T1 haulers can have a nice payday if someone makes a mistake overloading their hauler, it requires significant patience waiting for your profitable quarry to come to you.

All of this is far from "no effort what so ever". But really, ganking for profit is part of the game, and is there is a near 100% effective counter - don't overload your stuff in undertanked vessels. This is a basic part of the game design. If people fail to obey this rule, then other players are duty-bound to relieve them of their stuff, even if it were "no effort what so ever" for them to do so. That is what provides most of the risk (the only risk?) of operating in highsec.

That was the case when retrievers also had a yield advantage, yes, but then they tweaked the barges making the procurer more useful. All you have to do is watch the ice belts get stripped like clockwork by the same people every 4 hours without fail, and you'll see what they are using.

Then stop claiming to be against "bot aspirant behaviour" and start saying it like it is: You like risk averse ganking against newbies and carebears because you enjoy watching other people get upset about it.

END of commercial break!

Since codies like repetitions so much:
- dont buy a permit.
- ignore codies
- take the proper antigank preparations.



Yepp i support that.

Let me quote DJ Entropie Oevert again:


Taken from:
http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/11/kills-of-week.html#comment-form

This makes the all allegations like "for the good EvE", "save highsec", etc ad absurdum, a lame joke.
Those guys want just one thing:

Risk averse ganking against newbies and carebears because they enjoy watching other people get upset about it.

Ah now come the legend (propaganda) of the minus ten flyers.


You people where talking about it in the free part of the monerbumping.com forum.

I love how simple it is to show where codies are big hypocrits.

Well, I am not part of that forum. But as for "pocket change", if 300 mil is pocket change, then why so butthurt about a few blown up Retrievers?

Oh, and the hypocrite here is not me. But at least I can spell hypocrite.

OK, please point out where I stated miners weren't risk averse. Go ahead...

Nothing? Oh well perhaps that's because I've not stated that. Gankers do like to go on about how they are playing the right way, while the miners are not, but the truth of the matter is that on both sides it's risk averse play. Both need a serious balancing out.

You may not like the idea of consequences for choices made, but I sure as hell do.

No, but sitting around in highsec in dirt cheap ships which you intend to lose on disposable alts fighting players who are new, terrible or AFK who have no intent on fighting back isn't mitigation of risk. It's aversion. It's actively choosing to avoid risky activities, like fighting people with guns, or fighting in ships you don't intend to lose.

You ship choices are irrelvant, since the character is an alt. It's not like he needs to fly something that not disposable, because your alts do all of that, so there's no risk there. Flying about in a pod is merely a price of that choice of playstyle, a minimal price.

As for loot, that's no different from any other playstyle choice, it's simply drop chance. You can do exploration and get zip, or you can get billions in drops. It all balances out in the end.

I get that you want to think that gankers are somehow better than miners, but it really isn't the case.

I can't work out why, if it's all about valuable assets and apparently lazy AFK pilots why freighter ganks are appearing on KB's where assets have been double wrapped in a courier contract or the cargo is empty?

Keep trying to justify your laziness. At the end of the day you are more guilty of being lazy then perhaps someone who took the time to build up their assets whether that's missioning, ratting, moon reacting or what ever.