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Can rogue drones think?
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Ghelisis Achasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-11-04 21:40:25 UTC
Hello capsuleers!

As you know, aside from working for my corporation, I also work for the Federation (to fund said work for my corporation), and I have noticed something rather...interesting concerning rogue drones. The person who I work for calls them mindless, but I'm not too sure about that, and here are some reasonings:

I have noticed when I get sent out on a rogue drone mission, they always seem to have some sort of agenda. I know some rogue swarms will attack and destroy entire convoys, not unlike some of us capsuleers. I keep radio communications up during a mission, and sometimes I can hear distinct words coming from them. Most of the time it's static, but I could have sworn on my last drone mission that I heard "kill you" on comms coming from one of their assimilated Dominixes.

Also, there seems to be no short supply of drone-assimilated Dominix battleships. The other drone craft are unique, but...it's like they specifically chose a Dominix, and that is all they use. I am extremely puzzled over this, because that would mean that they CAN think, and whatever works best for them is what they stick with. Where do they get them to begin with, and how do they assimilate those ships?

This also opens up another can of long-limbs, in that if they ARE sentient enough, and they have their own region of space already. But can the Four Empires actually...deal with them like they deal with us capsuleers? Can we actually for instance hold a conversation with one if we work at it? I will attempt to do so on my next rogue drone mission, and I will let you know what I discover.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#2 - 2014-11-04 21:45:11 UTC
They are machines. They don't think, they just follow heuristic algorithms in their programming.
iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
#3 - 2014-11-04 21:52:26 UTC
While i would love to weigh in on this fully, i'm a little distracted at the moment.
I would personally lean towards the answer 'yes.'
Though perhaps not in the way humans or capsuleers do.

There are a few, likely aberrant, examples of drones communicating with capsuleers in the past.
Then of course there are the models named in the leaked Code Aria report.

Personally, I think that any sufficiently advanced programming could be considered 'thought' ... it's all a matter of extent.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#4 - 2014-11-04 21:56:57 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
They are machines. They don't think, they just follow heuristic algorithms in their programming.


Just machines? That would be like saying, that you are just an ape.

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune
#5 - 2014-11-04 22:02:20 UTC
I access stored and current data, then form hypotheses and conclusions utilising internal processing capability.
Therefore I am?

Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#6 - 2014-11-04 22:02:45 UTC
Some rogue drones can think.

However, the number that can think, is very, very, very small.

Well, if you can even call them rogue drones, that is. Because they're not drones, that is to say, they're not machines controlled by another entity. The ones that do the thinking, those are what they call "hive minds", which control the other rogue drones. Not sure that you can call a Hive Mind a drone, as such.

But that's not important right now.

What is important, is that the vast, vast majority of the Rogue Drone machines that you might encounter as a capsuleer, simply will not have the ability to interact philosophically with you, as they are simple machines following routines given to them by their controlling machine, and debating philosophy with humans simply does not fit into anything that that particular machine can handle.

It'd most likely just wait for you to move out of the way, before continuing on the task that you interrupted.

Or shoot at you.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Cuci Cairi
#7 - 2014-11-04 22:07:56 UTC
No, they cannot. They do not have sentience. They have programming, not consciousness.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#8 - 2014-11-04 22:09:17 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Some rogue drones can think.

However, the number that can think, is very, very, very small.

Well, if you can even call them rogue drones, that is. Because they're not drones, that is to say, they're not machines controlled by another entity. The ones that do the thinking, those are what they call "hive minds", which control the other rogue drones. Not sure that you can call a Hive Mind a drone, as such.

But that's not important right now.

What is important, is that the vast, vast majority of the Rogue Drone machines that you might encounter as a capsuleer, simply will not have the ability to interact philosophically with you, as they are simple machines following routines given to them by their controlling machine, and debating philosophy with humans simply does not fit into anything that that particular machine can handle.

It'd most likely just wait for you to move out of the way, before continuing on the task that you interrupted.

Or shoot at you.


Very well put actually.

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-11-04 22:38:48 UTC
First you ask, if rogue drones can think... then what?
Can Sansha think?
Can gallenteans think?
Can your hornets think?
Can you microwarpdrive think?...

Don't look for sentience when there is none.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-11-05 03:37:32 UTC
Ghelisis Achasse wrote:
This also opens up another can of long-limbs, in that if they ARE sentient enough, and they have their own region of space already. But can the Four Empires actually...deal with them like they deal with us capsuleers? Can we actually for instance hold a conversation with one if we work at it?
The Drones are collective consciousness and communicate on a different level than what we are used to. They don't deal with us "Humans" as individuals, but as a collective.

What we see as a war between humans and drones from our perspective, is merely a passionate argument between two individuals when viewed from a collective standpoint.

Because Far-que... That's why.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-11-05 03:47:36 UTC
Far as I know, an individual drone can't think. The thinking is done by the hive as a whole. I understand that social insects use pheromones and other chemical signals to do the critical thinking. The drones probably have something analogous to that.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Siddhar Gangari
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#12 - 2014-11-05 19:18:33 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
They are machines. They don't think, they just follow heuristic algorithms in their programming.



That may not be entirely true. There outward shells are mechanical, but we still have no idea if the function according to written programming or by an organic or synthetic consciousness. Of course, one could argue that both theories are identical and their distinction is merely semantics. However, no one can argue that the Sleepers are simple machines. Years after their discovery they have continually proved themselves beyond the limits of simple drone computers.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#13 - 2014-11-05 19:32:50 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
First you ask, if rogue drones can think... then what?
Can Sansha think?
Can gallenteans think?
Can your hornets think?
Can you microwarpdrive think?...

Don't look for sentience when there is none.


Can YOU think?
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#14 - 2014-11-05 19:37:21 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
First you ask, if rogue drones can think... then what?
Can Sansha think?
Can gallenteans think?
Can your hornets think?
Can you microwarpdrive think?...

Don't look for sentience when there is none.


Can YOU think?

please, don't feed the monkey. It gets aggressive.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#15 - 2014-11-05 19:52:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
Saede Riordan wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
They are machines. They don't think, they just follow heuristic algorithms in their programming.


Just machines? That would be like saying, that you are just an ape.


In many ways, that is truer than you think it is. We're all driven by our instincts more than anything.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-11-05 22:55:20 UTC
Short answer: yes, but possibly not as we would understand it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Wendrika Hydreiga
#17 - 2014-11-06 00:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Wendrika Hydreiga
A better question would be: can they feel?

I accidently set one of my lab aid drones on fire and he did complain a lot because of it, so I wouldn't rule that one out just yet. How was suposed to know it was still testing the engine nuzzles? I can still her it screaming "ERROR!"...
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#18 - 2014-11-06 00:49:35 UTC
I wonder how long it will be before the AI we created is wondering if the AI it created can think.... Are we just some form of AI created by a long extenct race of beings? If so, what was our original pourpose? How deep can I sound asking these questions? Will the IGS ever have a pie buffet? Can I have all your ISK? How many questions can I string together? What does purple tast like? will there ever be a word that rhymes with orange?

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-11-06 03:50:23 UTC
We don't like to believe there are things that can be sentient. It destroys our uniqueness. "Rogue Drones" is a misdemeanor for drones are controlled by an entity. Well if there is no longer a human controlling them then what is? God? Bill? I believe drones can think. They show preferences. They reproduce in a way. They set goals and seek to achieve them. Can they create art? What is art for a drone? Harmonics of a warp drive? In the end only a drone can tell you if he thinks, find one that will talk and you will look upon the faces of gods.

The rumor that "orange" rhymes with no other word is incorrect. Orange rhymes with sporange (a sac where spores are made). "Silver" has the same rumor going for it, but it actually rhymes with Wilver (a nickname) and chilver (a ewe lamb).

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Kohiko Sun
Stormcrows
#20 - 2014-11-06 06:49:05 UTC
Sentience is the ability to perceive the world and yourself. Ants can do that.

It is not sapience, the ability to reason.

Sapience has connections to intelligence, but it is not the same.

Sentience lets you see the world around you and know your head is cold. Sapience lets you decide if you would like to wear the warm thing you have found as a hat. Intelligence lets you know that you should take the chicken off of your head.
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