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Resource Drop >>Established

Author
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#41 - 2014-11-05 00:19:44 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Shaera Taam wrote:
We are not discussing the fate of one man in a courtroom. We are discussing what might be the fate of humanity.


♫Dun dun DUNNNNNN.♪♫


Haha, yes. Perhaps a bit more melodrama than intended. Thank you for pointing that out.

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!

Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#42 - 2014-11-05 01:35:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ikiryo
I find it somewhat distressing (but also pretty predictable) that Capsuleers unaffiliated with the actual project have seemingly given Dr. Tukoss exactly what he wants.

It is pretty evident that, drone infested imposter (or just regular imposter) or not, what is going on is not strictly academic. It's quite easy to tell just from his use of language. For instance, let's look at his statement about his research in the prior post, where he says it may:

Hilen Tukoss wrote:
...push us close to a breakthrough the like of which we have not seen since the matrimony of the capsule and the clone.


This is a peculiar turn of phrase to use, because haven't there already been breakthroughs of the same caliber? I would absolutely list the advent of the technology behind clone soldiers as one, for certain, and there have been several other considerable advances, as well. So why put it like that?

Well, the motivation seems quite obvious: Because it is tailored to be relateable and appealing to Capsuleers specifically. To get across the unspoken promise of "if you do this for me, you will become more powerful as a result". To stir greed in peoples hearts, rather than any sort of scientific curiosity.

Combine that with the fact that both messages are rather loaded with flattery and unnecessary promises, and the overall result is reminiscent of the use of language employed by con artists - Praising and humbling themselves before the mark to make them feel in a stronger position and lower their barriers, and leading them to believe that they're making their own logical and self-beneficial choices as they play directly into your hand.

And then...
Avio Yaken
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#43 - 2014-11-05 02:16:46 UTC
it is of great pleasure to me that i can happily tell you all that Scope Works has contributed to the Arek'jaalan program by donating one of the requested items, that item being a "Bone splinter" i saw to it myself that the item was transported to the drop off safely and secured

Regards,

Avio Yaken
Operational Branch
Scope Works

(.___________________________________________.)/

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-11-05 02:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Siddhar Gangari wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Well of course it is. We do so every time we clone.


Stitcher, with respect, there is a large difference. What you're referring to is the transfer of a conscious from an organic platform to another organic platform that is an exact physical and genetic replica.


Says the man with a brain built entirely out of synthetic synapses.

The distinction between organic and synthetic has ceased to be relevant, if it ever really was a useful distinction at all.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#45 - 2014-11-05 02:58:18 UTC
Avio Yaken wrote:
it is of great pleasure to me that i can happily tell you all that Scope Works has contributed to the Arek'jaalan program by donating one of the requested items, that item being a "Bone splinter" i saw to it myself that the item was transported to the drop off safely and secured

Regards,

Avio Yaken
Operational Branch
Scope Works


I guess you haven't noticed all the A'J members requesting people not to turn in anything in just yet.

-Eran
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#46 - 2014-11-05 03:07:35 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Avio Yaken wrote:
it is of great pleasure to me that i can happily tell you all that Scope Works has contributed to the Arek'jaalan program by donating one of the requested items, that item being a "Bone splinter" i saw to it myself that the item was transported to the drop off safely and secured

Regards,

Avio Yaken
Operational Branch
Scope Works


I guess you haven't noticed all the A'J members requesting people not to turn in anything in just yet.

-Eran


Mister Mintor,

I'm afraid that ship has sailed already. If you look at the previous page, there are already two accounts of people submitting parts. This is quite out of the projects hands.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#47 - 2014-11-05 03:32:33 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
I guess you haven't noticed all the A'J members requesting people not to turn in anything in just yet.

-Eran


Not everyone cares what A'J thinks.

And while I can agree with that, I cannot agree with turning in components to something that is obviously not really the human being it is claiming to be.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#48 - 2014-11-05 03:56:10 UTC
My point is he claims to be helping A'J and yet A'J has requested the exact opposite of what he did. That is the only point I wished to make.

-Eran
Edvar Maulerant
Doomheim
#49 - 2014-11-05 04:10:51 UTC
Whether he is human or not is irrelevant, non?

He has offered something, while asking for something in return. He has followed through with his end of the bargain, and we are offered an opportunity to be involved. I personally would wish to have leverage in this situation; I would not, however, advise this stance at this time. I certainly wouldn't suggest Arek'Jaalan as an organization take such a stance.

It speaks of desperation, and it is interesting that Arek'Jaalan has taken such a reactionary stance. It is the search for the unknown that drives us, non? If you got a message from a Sleeper representative, would you not resoundingly suggest participation?

Arek'Jaalan as an organization has no leverage. They have resources that can assist Hilen Tukoss, the individual who fought for it's creation. Would you now turn your back on him, in whatever form or danger he is currently in, out of fear?
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#50 - 2014-11-05 04:23:51 UTC
The person who fought for A'J's creation looks to be dead to me, replaced by a machine copy trying to use his image to fool people into giving it what it wants.
Anslo
Scope Works
#51 - 2014-11-05 04:32:18 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
My point is he claims to be helping A'J and yet A'J has requested the exact opposite of what he did. That is the only point I wished to make.

-Eran


We don't recognize the same A'J as you do. We see A'J as focused on Dr. Tukoss, not some shady ass council.

In other words, get ******.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Edvar Maulerant
Doomheim
#52 - 2014-11-05 04:57:17 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
The person who fought for A'J's creation looks to be dead to me, replaced by a machine copy trying to use his image to fool people into giving it what it wants.

Such presumption.

I see no evidence that this is the case. Quite the contrary in fact. Would someone who is not Hilen Tukoss have access to Site One in such a way as to set up a resource drop?

Caution is one thing, but blind paranoia is dangerous.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2014-11-05 05:16:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Edvar Maulerant wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
The person who fought for A'J's creation looks to be dead to me, replaced by a machine copy trying to use his image to fool people into giving it what it wants.

Such presumption.

I see no evidence that this is the case. Quite the contrary in fact. Would someone who is not Hilen Tukoss have access to Site One in such a way as to set up a resource drop?

Caution is one thing, but blind paranoia is dangerous.


With great disrespect and bluntness, I say you are lacking an inquiring mind and that you are relying too much on blind faith.

I will take your statement and turn it around: Are there any evidence that this man is THE Tukoss?

At this point, there are no observations, no verifiable data, that this is in fact Tukoss and that his intentions is good and beneficial.

Remember, secrets are never secure for long. Who is to say somebody didn't capture Tukoss, interrogate him for all his secrets, make a flesh copy but with a fabricated soul, manipulable like a puppet on strings? There are too many unknowns and we have not seen nearly enough to form a reasonable conclusion of whether he is who he says he is and whether our aid will truly be for the better.

Until we have a pretty good idea what it is we are getting ourselves into, be it from studying the remains to figure out what is so interesting about it, or from information given by Tukoss, with plenty of proof that this is, in fact, Tukoss, I say we stick to caution and continue surveillance.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-11-05 05:37:17 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Says the man with a brain built entirely out of synthetic synapses.

The distinction between organic and synthetic has ceased to be relevant, if it ever really was a useful distinction at all.

As you may have noticed, I put the question to the person posting this thread as to whether they could prove they were Hilen Tukoss - not as to whether they were human or whether they were organic. At this point it's far more important to know whether or not we're actually talking to him than to know what hardware, biological or otherwise, his informorph is running on.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Edvar Maulerant
Doomheim
#55 - 2014-11-05 05:39:15 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Until we have a pretty good idea what it is we are getting ourselves into, be it from studying the remains to figure out what is so interesting about it, or from information given by Tukoss, with plenty of proof that this is, in fact, Tukoss, I say we stick to caution and continue surveillance.

Such cynicism.

That is of course your prerogative. My question is this; what difference would it make if this were Hilen Tukoss? What concerns do you have regarding giving these materials to anyone who is not Hilen Tukoss? Why are there questions of his identity?

I feel this reactionary stance is not based on reasoning but on learned behavior. Interesting, as me and my associates have proven in the past that these types of communications can garner support, albeit from fringe elements of Capsuleer society. Of course, there are also internal squabbles and power struggles. I am curious which group will have greater success, those assisting or those questioning the intent and the identity of the individual requesting aid.

My Master of course predicts that A'J affiliated groups will eventually assist, under social pressures. Do you also believe this is an accurate prediction?
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2014-11-05 05:46:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Edvar Maulerant wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Until we have a pretty good idea what it is we are getting ourselves into, be it from studying the remains to figure out what is so interesting about it, or from information given by Tukoss, with plenty of proof that this is, in fact, Tukoss, I say we stick to caution and continue surveillance.

Such cynicism.

That is of course your prerogative. My question is this; what difference would it make if this were Hilen Tukoss? What concerns do you have regarding giving these materials to anyone who is not Hilen Tukoss? Why are there questions of his identity?

I feel this reactionary stance is not based on reasoning but on learned behavior. Interesting, as me and my associates have proven in the past that these types of communications can garner support, albeit from fringe elements of Capsuleer society. Of course, there are also internal squabbles and power struggles. I am curious which group will have greater success, those assisting or those questioning the intent and the identity of the individual requesting aid.

My Master of course predicts that A'J affiliated groups will eventually assist, under social pressures. Do you also believe this is an accurate prediction?


The time it takes for A'J to submit may possibly all the time it needs to ascertain what was really going on.

I will answer your questions.

Yes, there is a difference whether this is really Hilen Tukoss. You must look at the bigger picture. If this is Hilen Tukoss, he is clearly not the same person as he once was. This thus means that his goals may have changed. We should know his intentions and judge if it will benefit the human species as a whole, or not. If this is not HIlen Tukoss (in fact, even if he is Hilen Tukoss), we must then ascertain who is the man (or men) behind him, and ascertain his (or their) motive(s) and understand if whatever he (or they) plan will be for the good or for ill of our species.

Remember, any material we give can potentially be used for or against us. Right now, we do not have much of an idea about the benefits and risks of these materials that he asks for.

Do not fear the unknown, but investigate it. Thoroughly. Then form our conclusions and come with an informed consensus.

An inquiring mind is a healthy mind.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#57 - 2014-11-05 05:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Edvar Maulerant wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Until we have a pretty good idea what it is we are getting ourselves into, be it from studying the remains to figure out what is so interesting about it, or from information given by Tukoss, with plenty of proof that this is, in fact, Tukoss, I say we stick to caution and continue surveillance.

Such cynicism.

That is of course your prerogative. My question is this; what difference would it make if this were Hilen Tukoss? What concerns do you have regarding giving these materials to anyone who is not Hilen Tukoss? Why are there questions of his identity?

I feel this reactionary stance is not based on reasoning but on learned behavior. Interesting, as me and my associates have proven in the past that these types of communications can garner support, albeit from fringe elements of Capsuleer society. Of course, there are also internal squabbles and power struggles. I am curious which group will have greater success, those assisting or those questioning the intent and the identity of the individual requesting aid.

My Master of course predicts that A'J affiliated groups will eventually assist, under social pressures. Do you also believe this is an accurate prediction?


A'J itself is a venture best left unsupported, frankly, even if it was the real Tukoss. It's a project for capsuleers by capsuleers, and so can only lead to bad things.

And if this thing claiming it is Tukoss is a machine, operating on behalf of the sleepers, or rogue drones, or worst of all, Nation, then it becomes a greater imperative to not support it.


And it most likely is not the real Tukoss, based off of the impressions of people who used to work with him. It's already been seen, in this thread and in the last, that people who previously worked with him have said that he is not acting like he used to be, and that he is ignoring a core ruling of the project that he himself made. That, along with the blatant hexadecimal indicating a faulty program, is pretty damning.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#58 - 2014-11-05 06:43:02 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
I know this might sound silly, but has anyone tried to contact Mr Hilen Tukoss through private mail by chance? See if one could get additional information that way?


Yes. No reply as yet.


Eran Mintor wrote:
My point is he claims to be helping A'J and yet A'J has requested the exact opposite of what he did. That is the only point I wished to make.

-Eran


Some past members of A'J, and some people wanting to be a part of some new form of A'J have asked people not to submit items.

As a collective, no such request has been made, because there is no organisational structure with any kind of mandate to make such a request.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Anslo
Scope Works
#59 - 2014-11-05 06:46:58 UTC
Honestly we don't give a **** what ~organization~ you make. We won't recognize it. We'll do what we wish to do. We'll submit what we wish to submit.

Your ~committee~ has no authority over the rest of us.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2014-11-05 06:55:59 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Honestly we don't give a **** what ~organization~ you make. We won't recognize it. We'll do what we wish to do. We'll submit what we wish to submit.

Your ~committee~ has no authority over the rest of us.


I still prefer to be cautious even if I am unaffiliated with anyone at this time. Call me an over-thinker but it's a habit that has served me pretty well.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.