These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Resource Drop >>Established
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#21 - 2014-11-04 16:23:46 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
To be honest, for me it sounds more not like AI, but faulty communication line with NeoCom autotranslator feed breaking through.

Which could mean, that the defector is still alive, and should be captured and brought to tribunal for treason against the State and his corporation... what was it? Ishukone, right?

Okay, maybe not corporation then, they are almost traitors themselves, but for treason to the State definitely.


Ms. Kim, such an attitude is understandable, but dangerously shortsighted.

We are not discussing the fate of one man in a courtroom. We are discussing what might be the fate of /humanity./

Even that of your precious State. Surely you can appreciate that?

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Siddhar Gangari
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#22 - 2014-11-04 16:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Siddhar Gangari
I've theorised before that the Sleepers are infomorphic in nature - able to transfer their consciousness from one platform to another, just like capsuleers. After considering Dr. Tukoss' interaction with Sleeper tech and his sudden, though sporadic appearances after three years of silence, I cannot help but wonder if it's possible to successfully transfer a consciousness from a synthetic platform to an organic one.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-11-04 16:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Shaera Taam wrote:
We are not discussing the fate of one man in a courtroom. We are discussing what might be the fate of humanity.


♫Dun dun DUNNNNNN.♪♫

Siddhar Gangari wrote:
I've theorised before that the Sleepers are infomorphic in nature - able to transfer their consciousness from one platform to another, just like capsuleers. After considering Dr. Tukoss' interaction with Sleeper tech and his sudden, though sporadic appearances after three years of silence, I cannot help but wonder if it's possible to transfer a consciousness from a synthetic platform to an organic one.


Well of course it is. We do so every time we clone.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-11-04 17:04:45 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Whatever they were they are machines now and this thing is talking like a machine. Whatever it wants can't be good.


I've done numerous post-mortems (heh) of the guardian drones in Sleeper sites and the architecture of their hardware holds roughly consistent with that of our drones.

Whatever the Sleepers are, they are not the machines we destroy. Perhaps the drones are remote controlled, or have limited autonomy, but either way there's no indication that the Sleepers and their drones are one and the same.

As an addendum, Dr. Tukoss, while my trust in your goals is implicit, I would be much obliged if you would share those goals, and how those Jove parts provide the means.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
Edvar Maulerant
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-11-04 18:10:07 UTC
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
As an addendum, Dr. Tukoss, while my trust in your goals is implicit, I would be much obliged if you would share those goals, and how those Jove parts provide the means.

Requests for information are best made from a position of strength. For instance, by having a large quantity of the required assets and then withholding delivery until sufficient explanation is given for their purpose. This is similar to how Tukoss is operating at this moment; he has information, and is withholding it until he receives what he wants.

Now, does he need us more than we need him? Of course. We are restricted by CONCORD regulations and he can make use of the required materials while we cannot. Using atypical communications adds doubt, which causes division, and confuses the issue. Everyone is guessing as to what is going on with Tukoss that they ignore their position at the bargaining table. He is also perhaps hoping that enough capsuleers will blindly follow so that he does not have to reveal more than is absolutely required.

He is appealing to your vanity, your need to make a "big discovery".

Personally, I find having leverage before entering into negotiations is always advantageous. Your divided nature makes it simple. It's why he did not simply go to Sansha's Nation, Guristas or Angels to get what he needs (and let's not even discuss the Empires).
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#26 - 2014-11-04 18:29:44 UTC
Well, right now, Arek'Jaalan is in fact in possession of the materials he needs. I would encourage the archivists to not turn over this material to Hilen until he has put forward an explanation.

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Edvar Maulerant
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-11-04 19:08:43 UTC
Ms. Riordan, I would not presume to suggest that anyone act out of anything other than their own self interest. I am simply stating that if more information is required, using leverage to force this information to be revealed is the best course of action.

Given the added issue of this perhaps being time sensitive, I would humbly suggest planning for future such requests and simply providing the resources requested this time.

Mr. Tukoss is not an unintelligent man. He has suggested enough to force cooperation, and left the timetable vague enough to insure reasonable compliance.

Well played, but without knowing the outcome... I simply suggest this question. Would you risk losing an opportunity to advance scientific understanding of the Sleepers simply to satisfy momentary curiosity?

I would also point out that Mr. Tukoss is in possession of the remains of at least one known "drone infected" individual. The communications protocols Mr. Tukoss has been using are very similar to the infected individual's modus operandi. Based on this information I would suggest caution in any dealings with Hilen Tukoss, and would call on CONCORD to list him as potentially dangerous and open to capsuleer attack. With that in mind would you hand over potentially dangerous and sensitive materials?
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#28 - 2014-11-04 20:00:21 UTC
As it so happens, I was present in Eram today, examining the site, and saw the object that has been set up.

And I happened to see an individual, appear in a destroyer class ship, which I was able to cargoscan, and they had items that Tukoss had requested.

They appeared to deposit the items in the drop site, because a second cargo scan showed they no longer had them.

Scanning the drop container showed nothing, which means that those materials are probably now in the hands of Dr. Tukoss.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Avio Yaken
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#29 - 2014-11-04 20:11:05 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
As it so happens, I was present in Eram today, examining the site, and saw the object that has been set up.

And I happened to see an individual, appear in a destroyer class ship, which I was able to cargoscan, and they had items that Tukoss had requested.

They appeared to deposit the items in the drop site, because a second cargo scan showed they no longer had them.

Scanning the drop container showed nothing, which means that those materials are probably now in the hands of Dr. Tukoss.




Oh how very odd...

(.___________________________________________.)/
Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune
#30 - 2014-11-04 20:12:59 UTC
Additional investigation path begun.

50696c6f742054756b6f73732e0d0a496e666f726d6174696f6e20726571756573743a204c6f636174696f6e202d204c69616e646120427572726561750d0a4675727468657220726571756573743a2043757272656e7420706572736f6e616c20696e666f6d6f727068207374617475732e

We Return.

Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune.
Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune
#31 - 2014-11-04 20:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Unit XS365BT
We apologise for the above breach of current posting protocol.

We Return.

Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune.
Siddhar Gangari
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#32 - 2014-11-04 20:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Siddhar Gangari
Stitcher wrote:
Well of course it is. We do so every time we clone.


Stitcher, with respect, there is a large difference. What you're referring to is the transfer of a conscious from an organic platform to another organic platform that is an exact physical and genetic replica. Sleepers are synthetic in body, though it is unclear if their consciousness is synthetic as well. There are similarities between what some of us experience on a daily basis, but the process I'm alluding to has many more variables. We have no idea how an organic consciousness would behave inside a synthetic body, or vice versa. It's likely an organic mind would be driven insane by the lack of sensory and emotional stimuli, while a synthetic mind would be crippled by a sensory/emotional overload.

Anyway this is all academic conjecture. Just because Dr. Tukoss' communication contained hexadecimal rectifications of his speech doesn't mean his body has been hijacked by a Sleeper consciousness. He very well could be an AI. Or an android. In any case, I'm not taking this at face value until someone proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is, indeed, Dr. Hilen Tukoss.

Speaking of Dr. Tukoss, I have a question for him:

44722e2054756b6f73732e2041726520796f752068756d616e3f
Shae Mataar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-11-04 20:52:22 UTC
Unit XS365BT wrote:
We apologise for the above breach of current posting protocol.

We Return.


no, dont apologize. its an interesting method of attempting contact.

far better than sitting around wishing for further information and allowing the conspiracy theories to fester.

i bring that which you fear the most

freedom

no matter what the price
iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
#34 - 2014-11-04 21:17:19 UTC
Siddhar Gangari wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Well of course it is. We do so every time we clone.


Stitcher, with respect, there is a large difference. What you're referring to is the transfer of a conscious from an organic platform to another organic platform that is an exact physical and genetic replica. Sleepers are synthetic in body, though it is unclear if their consciousness is synthetic as well. There are similarities between what some of us experience on a daily basis, but the process I'm alluding to has many more variables. We have no idea how an organic consciousness would behave inside a synthetic body, or vice versa. It's likely an organic mind would be driven insane by the lack of sensory and emotional stimuli, while a synthetic mind would be crippled by a sensory/emotional overload.

Anyway this is all academic conjecture. Just because Dr. Tukoss' communication contained hexadecimal rectifications of his speech doesn't mean his body has been hijacked by a Sleeper consciousness. He very well could be an AI. Or an android. In any case, I'm not taking this at face value until someone proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is, indeed, Dr. Hilen Tukoss.

Speaking of Dr. Tukoss, I have a question for him:

44722e2054756b6f73732e2041726520796f752068756d616e3f


Just a quick point Siddhar.
The CEO of Zainou biotech, his name eludes me at the moment, transferred his conciousness into his corporate mainframe or some such... Apparently successfully.

So there is some precident for the possibility of reversing that process.

I also remember mention of an Awakened Infomorph some time back, who appeared to do something to Aria Jenneth's ship.
Not sure if the specifics of that encounter were ever fully analysed.

-Tertianus Rethelior

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Ollie Rundle
#35 - 2014-11-04 21:48:24 UTC
Unit XS365BT wrote:
Additional investigation path begun.

50696c6f742054756b6f73732e0d0a496e666f726d6174696f6e20726571756573743a204c6f636174696f6e202d204c69616e646120427572726561750d0a4675727468657220726571756573743a2043757272656e7420706572736f6e616c20696e666f6d6f727068207374617475732e

We Return.

My thoughts exactly, Yuni.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-11-04 22:47:24 UTC
Shaera Taam wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
To be honest, for me it sounds more not like AI, but faulty communication line with NeoCom autotranslator feed breaking through.

Which could mean, that the defector is still alive, and should be captured and brought to tribunal for treason against the State and his corporation... what was it? Ishukone, right?

Okay, maybe not corporation then, they are almost traitors themselves, but for treason to the State definitely.


Ms. Kim, such an attitude is understandable, but dangerously shortsighted.

We are not discussing the fate of one man in a courtroom. We are discussing what might be the fate of /humanity./

Even that of your precious State. Surely you can appreciate that?

Yep.
The fate of a traitor with broken language translator and radio station can affect **humanity**.

That's what Minmatars think, right?
BOO, SLAVERS!! BOOO!!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-11-04 22:51:41 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
5768792061726520776520737065616b696e6720696e2068657869646563696d616c3f

No, you are not speaking in "hexademical", it is just representation of characters on your holoscreen, or neocom, or whatever you was using.
For Maker's sake, who teaches these minmatars now?!...

Dear Imperials, please take them back already...

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#38 - 2014-11-04 23:05:26 UTC
I know this might sound silly, but has anyone tried to contact Mr Hilen Tukoss through private mail by chance? See if one could get additional information that way?

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Jeremiah Cole
Dark Matter.
#39 - 2014-11-04 23:22:30 UTC
Further materials have been moved from personal storage in J100820 to Site One, and we await further contact.
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#40 - 2014-11-05 00:12:15 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

The fate of a traitor with broken language translator and radio station can affect **humanity**.

That's what Minmatars think, right?
BOO, SLAVERS!! BOOO!!


I am not going to rise to your bait, Ms Kim. My Vherokior heritage and attitude toward those long considered enemies of the Republic are not at issue here. As capsuleers, we have the ability to rise above such pettiness and work together for the betterment of all. I intend to exercise that very such ability, even if you do not.

The possibility exists that Dr. Tukoss' identity has been co-opted by something else, or in the worst case, something has co-opted Dr. Tukoss himself. Very real possibilities. They should be treated with the seriousness due their very real consequences.

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!