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[Phoebe] Long Distance Travel Changes - updates!

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Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1961 - 2014-11-03 19:25:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Lord TGR wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
So you have to ask yourself: Are you the kind of person who blindly follows without asking questions or offering better ideas? Not I.

We did ask questions. Those questions led to blops, JF and hauler changes, amongst others. We saw problems with the initial proposal, we worked with CCP to improve the proposal, and now we have a solution which the majority of people who've been in on it (a lot of us are cap pilots, me amongst them) think is fair. And barring a few workarounds (which I don't think is going to be abused as hard as some seem to think they will, and isn't solved by your solution either), it all seems to do what is expected and necessary.

Andy Landen wrote:
Do you question politicians when they offer you the wealth of other people? I do.

We asked CCP what the meaning were behind the changes, and they did explain, in detail. We had some reservations, we voiced them, changes were made, and everyone (except a few, I suppose) are happy about the changes.

Have you actually looked at the feedback you've been given on your suggestion? Have you actually fathomed how much worse those changes are in almost every respect?

Andy Landen wrote:
Do you ask what BLOPS stand to gain or caps stand to lose, beyond the immediately obvious?
Finally, did anyone stop to ask about the consequences of overpowering BLOPS with triple the jump distance and virtual jump fatigue immunity? Can anyone remember what happens when ships were made overpowered in the past?

Considering blops cost a lot, and last I checked are mostly used to catch ratters or bridging various other ships around and tend to run away after they've ganked the one ship they went after, I strongly doubt blops'll become a major force de jour.

And if I am wrong and they do end up as popular as you seem to allude to them becoming, then it's just a minor database update statement and voila, the blops are nerfed to 5LY as well.

Andy Landen wrote:
Ask the questions or close your eyes and follow blindly into Alts Online.

You're about 10 years too late for that.

The smart players will use these very changes, which promised cap kms at every stargate, in order to travel across all of Eve even faster and safer than before in order to continue doing exactly the same thing that they are doing right now. The only thing CCPs solution will solve is to make it harder for the space-poor combat cap players to do normal stuff with their capital ships and to make the space-rich even more powerful. It will look like this:

Capital ships will be purchased and fitted and stored within 5ly of every possible conflict area. When the next BR- happens, all combat cap players will jump in their BLOPS and jump across vast distances at lightning speed across the regions to the station nearest the combat area housing their capital ships using their jump fatigue and jump distance bonuses. They will then re-ship into their capital ships and prepare to capital blob as they have done before. CCP's solution does not shrink or isolate Eve and it does not prevent future BR- "all-Eve" battles. Their solution merely places the inconvenience of purchasing more battle-ready capital ships and BLOPS ships in key stations.

Will CCP ever go back and reduce the BLOPS jump buffs? They can't because every change is designed to advanced "Ganker's Online" and without caps or BLOPS for easy-mode, cyno-blobbing ratters, how will Eve survive? The pvp easy-mode players will cry us an ocean until they get their get their instant, risk-free, cyno-blobbing back. Once this change is made, there is no going back, and BLOPS must remain OP with jumping.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1962 - 2014-11-03 20:22:55 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
The smart players will use these very changes, which promised cap kms at every stargate

The only one mewling about CCP promising cap kills to every subcap gate camper, is you. The rest of us have figured out that if you don't have proper subcap support yourself (or are roaming around in an archon ball etc, I suppose), then you just don't go through that gate if you know it's camped, and you look for alternatives. Either you wait it out (in which case the campers have won a victory by denying you movement), or you take a detour and/or come in through another gate which they haven't camped. Or you just skip the system entirely because the only strategic importance that system has, is as a chokepoint, but you have an alternative.

Andy Landen wrote:
in order to travel across all of Eve even faster and safer than before in order to continue doing exactly the same thing that they are doing right now. The only thing CCPs solution will solve is to make it harder for the space-poor combat cap players to do normal stuff with their capital ships and to make the space-rich even more powerful. It will look like this:

Capital ships will be purchased and fitted and stored within 5ly of every possible conflict area. When the next BR- happens, all combat cap players will jump in their BLOPS and jump across vast distances at lightning speed across the regions to the station nearest the combat area housing their capital ships using their jump fatigue and jump distance bonuses. They will then re-ship into their capital ships and prepare to capital blob as they have done before. CCP's solution does not shrink or isolate Eve and it does not prevent future BR- "all-Eve" battles. Their solution merely places the inconvenience of purchasing more battle-ready capital ships and BLOPS ships in key stations.

Oh, really? Let's look at these numbers then, and use the exact same route as for caps. So that's 50 jumps and 60LY from 319 to YA0. If we use the bare minimum of fatigue before the next jump, we seem to be talking about a traveltime of almost 8 days. If we wait until the fatigue's at a maximum of 10m before the next jump, then we're talking about a 5.5 hour traveltime.

In other words, interceptors would be a much better choice to "deploy" to a new cap cache, as they'd probably get there 4-5 hours quicker.

Andy Landen wrote:
Will CCP ever go back and reduce the BLOPS jump buffs?

Have you even done any calculations, or are you just making wild (and incorrect) assumptions about how things work?

Andy Landen wrote:
They can't because every change is designed to advanced "Ganker's Online" and without caps or BLOPS for easy-mode, cyno-blobbing ratters, how will Eve survive? The pvp easy-mode players will cry us an ocean until they get their get their instant, risk-free, cyno-blobbing back. Once this change is made, there is no going back, and BLOPS must remain OP with jumping.

What?

Are you going to actually sit here and claim that a large majority of ratters are caught, today, by caps and/or blops today, and that this'll continue tomorrow?
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#1963 - 2014-11-03 22:07:44 UTC
One more day to go. Man I'm so excited! Just think, in one day I'll be able to jump into the Black Ops ship I don't own and can't fly, and bridge a bunch of bombers across the galaxy where they will get cap kills on every gate! That is if I don't do anything stupid to screw that up, like, say, moving into a wormhole. Sh*t, I totally just did that too, moved into a wormhole. Let me calculate my jump range from here, let's see... 0 times 0 is 0, plus 0, then round to the nearest whole number. I guess you'll just have to bring your cap ship into my wormhole, drop a can and name it "Stargate" and then I'll kill you in something exciting, like a Scythe with T1 drones. Or maybe Lord TGR will just kill twice as many caps on gates and write my name on every other killmail in crayon, I think that would be acceptable.

Now that I think about it, the only reason I moved into this wormhole is because I received a strange fortune cookie from Iceland last year that said "Next year you will be living in a wormhole." I wonder if I'm just a pawn in a game that's larger than I can see, maybe I've been tricked into liking the jump range nerf! Maybe red is really green, and dogs can fly, but only when cats aren't looking? I feel so used, so many caps are gonna die just because I made a reasonable argument on the internet.

See, Andy isn't the only one who can make up crazy conspiracy theories...

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow
Sharduse
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1964 - 2014-11-03 23:57:44 UTC
Well I can't say I am happy about the changes, or that I am not happy. I do see a logistical nightmare. and I don't see many caps that are in a alliance move (500-1000 caps) being ambushed at some gate in the middle of nowhere, no what I see is a TD being used a lot. you will have those 500-1000 caps, and you will have another 1000 BS's, plus un countable smaller ships. all moving as one giant mass. it could make gate camping fun again. or "I think I need to change my shorts" moment. we will see. if it gets the tactics back into warfare and not just a blob drop contests. Massive fleet fights would be fun again. Well there is my 2 cents, they stink, but there mine.

Fly safe.
Byson1
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1965 - 2014-11-04 01:07:23 UTC
To all who have read all these posts. I hope your eyes aren't falling out. Thanks for your patronage. Cool
Cain Silver
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1966 - 2014-11-04 02:14:21 UTC
How does log off affect the Jump fatigue and cool down timers?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1967 - 2014-11-04 04:07:02 UTC
Cain Silver wrote:
How does log off affect the Jump fatigue and cool down timers?

last i heard no effect. It will stil count down even if you unsub
Celly S
Neutin Local LLC
#1968 - 2014-11-04 04:32:07 UTC
Just an FYI...
around, 8 hours till Phoebe :)

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1969 - 2014-11-04 07:29:20 UTC
Celly S wrote:
Just an FYI...
around, 8 hours till Phoebe :)

and in the morning there will be glorious tears of the unprepared and uninformed
Fabrus Wolfson
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1970 - 2014-11-04 11:37:37 UTC
Before the usual wise men say their usual nonsense, I'm a pilot of capital that has already taken steps to make all the moves that were needed. I say my thoughts about the patch: it's a steal and an insult to all those who in recent years have played with passion in eve online, months of skilling now useless and not compensated. If CCP has decided to transform a complex and fascinating in its complexity in a children's game free to do so as one who has supported so far is free to look for a different child's play. I just remember the gentlemen programmers eve was different because of its different approach to the MMORPG but if they decided to make a clone of other games for children do well, I will stay until the next relase will not put elves and fairies .... ..
An old player
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#1971 - 2014-11-04 13:05:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sexy Cakes
So 4.33 light years of a jump bridge got me over 50 minutes of fatigue?

Why were jump bridges nerfed just as much as combat vessels?

Edit: Why not set up jump bridges to give less fatigue when you are jumping in your own alliance's region and more fatigue when you aren't?

Not today spaghetti.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#1972 - 2014-11-04 14:23:53 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
-Conspiracy theory-

You are delusional



His parents just never taught him what the word "NO" means. This is more common as the liberal movement drives humanity toward the apocalypse. Big picture, this is OK. 99% of the folks ruining society are not equiped to survive once they break it. I'm just hoping for a quick correction, so we can get back to internet spaceships in a timely manner after our social degredation gets corrected. Be ready!
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#1973 - 2014-11-04 14:30:06 UTC
Niskin wrote:
One more day to go. Man I'm so excited! Just think, in one day I'll be able to jump into the Black Ops ship I don't own and can't fly, and bridge a bunch of bombers across the galaxy where they will get cap kills on every gate! That is if I don't do anything stupid to screw that up, like, say, moving into a wormhole. Sh*t, I totally just did that too, moved into a wormhole. Let me calculate my jump range from here, let's see... 0 times 0 is 0, plus 0, then round to the nearest whole number. I guess you'll just have to bring your cap ship into my wormhole, drop a can and name it "Stargate" and then I'll kill you in something exciting, like a Scythe with T1 drones. Or maybe Lord TGR will just kill twice as many caps on gates and write my name on every other killmail in crayon, I think that would be acceptable.

Now that I think about it, the only reason I moved into this wormhole is because I received a strange fortune cookie from Iceland last year that said "Next year you will be living in a wormhole." I wonder if I'm just a pawn in a game that's larger than I can see, maybe I've been tricked into liking the jump range nerf! Maybe red is really green, and dogs can fly, but only when cats aren't looking? I feel so used, so many caps are gonna die just because I made a reasonable argument on the internet.

See, Andy isn't the only one who can make up crazy conspiracy theories...



I thought I was the only one who got the cookie..... I burried it in a water proof, lead lined, faraday caged box in my back yard. Popped a CS canister, threw it in on top and backfilled the 18ft deep hole mimicing the earth strata, so no one will ever find it. I'll dig it up as evidence if it's ever needed.

I hope you didn't eat yours - it probably has some kind of mind control drug or nanite in it (I wore neoprene gloves the whole time, so I should be OK)
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#1974 - 2014-11-04 14:32:24 UTC
Sharduse wrote:
Well I can't say I am happy about the changes, or that I am not happy. I do see a logistical nightmare. and I don't see many caps that are in a alliance move (500-1000 caps) being ambushed at some gate in the middle of nowhere, no what I see is a TD being used a lot. you will have those 500-1000 caps, and you will have another 1000 BS's, plus un countable smaller ships. all moving as one giant mass. it could make gate camping fun again. or "I think I need to change my shorts" moment. we will see. if it gets the tactics back into warfare and not just a blob drop contests. Massive fleet fights would be fun again. Well there is my 2 cents, they stink, but there mine.

Fly safe.



I have 2 words for you:

Pipe

Bomb
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#1975 - 2014-11-04 14:35:57 UTC
Fabrus Wolfson wrote:
Before the usual wise men say their usual nonsense, I'm a pilot of capital that has already taken steps to make all the moves that were needed. I say my thoughts about the patch: it's a steal and an insult to all those who in recent years have played with passion in eve online, months of skilling now useless and not compensated. If CCP has decided to transform a complex and fascinating in its complexity in a children's game free to do so as one who has supported so far is free to look for a different child's play. I just remember the gentlemen programmers eve was different because of its different approach to the MMORPG but if they decided to make a clone of other games for children do well, I will stay until the next relase will not put elves and fairies .... ..
An old player



Commence operation LOCATOR AGENT in 5.... 4...... 3....... 2........ 1

For all you capital intel needs.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1976 - 2014-11-04 15:10:18 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
So 4.33 light years of a jump bridge got me over 50 minutes of fatigue?

Why were jump bridges nerfed just as much as combat vessels?

Edit: Why not set up jump bridges to give less fatigue when you are jumping in your own alliance's region and more fatigue when you aren't?

ump bridges got the ax as well in order to prevent any easy workarounds
Sweet Times
Riptide Riot
#1977 - 2014-11-04 15:26:50 UTC
RIP eve restrictions on sov jbs are so restrictive its pointless undocking from staging system to do anything a well it was nice playing this game for a few years time to try something else now
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1978 - 2014-11-04 15:40:16 UTC
Sweet Times wrote:
time to try something else now

using gates would be a good start
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#1979 - 2014-11-04 15:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: OldWolf69
Christ god...
**** happened.
Wellcome to Endlesstravelling Online.
Ok, i jumped a cap trough a gate.
What else is new, positively?
LolLolLol
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#1980 - 2014-11-04 17:21:41 UTC
OldWolf69 wrote:
Christ god...
**** happened.
Wellcome to Endlesstravelling Online.
Ok, i jumped a cap trough a gate.
What else is new, positively?
LolLolLol


I think a HIC can point your cap preventing it from jumping through also, so that's new as well.