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Advice on avoiding the Suicide gank

First post
Author
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#181 - 2014-11-04 02:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Oh, there are. But since they intrinsically involve not being a chickenshit, you can't actually do any of them.


To anyone observing, note how none of these are actually fighting for what he wants, just pushing a button for safety. That's what he wants, he wants a one stop guarantee that PvP won't happen.


Such nonsense.....As has been stated before even buying ammo on the market is PvP, and no where have I tried to stop PvP from happening. What I would like to see are real consequences for criminal behavior in highsec.

And yes, Eve is experiencing deflation, not inflation - see the CSM note and ship/mod prices.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#182 - 2014-11-04 02:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Veers Belvar wrote:
You can't control territory in highsec like you can in null. There is no effective solution to get rid of the gankers. I can't bubble all the gates and deny them docking rights in the stations. Highsec isn't designed to let players enforce the law, it's designed to let police enforce the law.
That kind of thinking is why you fail.

How is being able to shoot at a suspect or criminal not enabling you to hit gankers? How is the public list of shareholders not enabling you to go after one of their income streams via wardecs and merc contracts? Gankers have alts, they have a logistics chain, most are kill on sight, figure out their instaundocks, camp them. Camp the stations they work from with fast locking alpha, a gank cat is extremely squishy after all; ECM them, just do something that shows some creative thinking and doesn't involve you posting on the forums.

Hook up with Anslo, or Bronson*; kill Dryson for doing more harm to the image of antiganking than anything else.
Educate, teach newbies that going AFK isn't a particularly good idea neither is shooting at the guy that just stole some loot, the basics of tanking beyond the limited scope of a tutorial that gives an Amarr player a shield tanking skill book, that people will come and explode their stuff if they allow them to.

Teach them that risk is a fact in Eve and how to minimise it.

*I don't consider Bronson to be anti anything, he is however pro-content and does shoot at suicide gankers.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#183 - 2014-11-04 02:19:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Such nonsense.....


Well, I quoted you, so yeah it's nonsense.



Quote:
no where have I tried to stop PvP from happening.


Your entire post history is trying to stop PvP from happening. You're incredibly, disgustingly risk averse.


Quote:
What I would like to see are real consequences for criminal behavior in highsec.


There are already too many. It needs toned down, not up, that way it isn't so hostile to new players choosing that path.

Oh, and since we were talking about five years ago, yes, there is inflation. An frankly enormous amount, that the game will not be able to sustain. Deflation is now strictly necessary.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#184 - 2014-11-04 02:20:56 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
You can't control territory in highsec like you can in null. There is no effective solution to get rid of the gankers. I can't bubble all the gates and deny them docking rights in the stations. Highsec isn't designed to let players enforce the law, it's designed to let police enforce the law.
That kind of thinking is why you fail.

How is being able to shoot at a suspect or criminal not enabling you to hit gankers? How is the public list of shareholders not enabling you to go after one of their income streams via wardecs and merc contracts? Gankers have alts, they have a logistics chain, most are kill on sight, figure out their instaundocks, camp them; camp the stations with fast locking alpha, a gank cat is extremely squishy, ECM them, just do something that shows some creative thinking and doesn't involve you posting on the forums.

Hook up with Anslo, kill Dryson for doing more harm to the image of antiganking than anything else.
Educate, teach newbies that going AFK isn't a particularly good idea neither is shooting at the guy that just stole some loot, the basics of tanking beyond the limited scope of a tutorial that give an Amarr play a shield tanking skill book, that people will come and explode their stuff if they allow them to.

Teach them that risk is a fact in Eve and that how to minimise it.


Those things require not being a gutless coward, Jonah.

Sheep don't stop being sheep if you paint stripes on them.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#185 - 2014-11-04 02:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
You can't control territory in highsec like you can in null. There is no effective solution to get rid of the gankers. I can't bubble all the gates and deny them docking rights in the stations. Highsec isn't designed to let players enforce the law, it's designed to let police enforce the law.
That kind of thinking is why you fail.

How is being able to shoot at a suspect or criminal not enabling you to hit gankers? How is the public list of shareholders not enabling you to go after one of their income streams via wardecs and merc contracts? Gankers have alts, they have a logistics chain, most are kill on sight, figure out their instaundocks, camp them; camp the stations with fast locking alpha, a gank cat is extremely squishy, ECM them, just do something that shows some creative thinking and doesn't involve you posting on the forums.

Hook up with Anslo, kill Dryson for doing more harm to the image of antiganking than anything else.
Educate, teach newbies that going AFK isn't a particularly good idea neither is shooting at the guy that just stole some loot, the basics of tanking beyond the limited scope of a tutorial that give an Amarr player a shield tanking skill book, that people will come and explode their stuff if they allow them to.

Teach them that risk is a fact in Eve and how to minimise it.


People already do these things - ineffectively. It's no fun to spend your time foiling gankers who can just try again 15 minutes later. Not to mention that actually fighting them involves things like suicide ganking their bumpers and logistics, turning the good guys into the criminals. And on a more fundamental level highsec PvE players are not looking to be the police....they are not interested in engaging in PvP combat without CONCORD protection - that is the whole reason they live in highsec.

One thing I do agree with CODE on - their getting PvE focused highsec "carebears" to turn into hardened PvP players is a victory for them, and as they have told me, for every 10 that start out in AG, 9 out of those 10 end up joining CODE because it's more fun to the be the bad guy.

The way to defeat CODE is to refuse to PvP with them, to call out their repugnant tactics on the forums, and the concomitant harm to new/casual players, and to push CCP to adjust the police force so that it is capable of adequately dealing with criminals. That's what I do, and will continue to do. Thankfully PvP is taking the first step by knocking awoxxing right out of commission.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#186 - 2014-11-04 02:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Veers Belvar wrote:

People already do these things - ineffectively.
Who's fault is that? The carebears don't want to know, the AG collective is pitiful, Dryson is a joke as are most of their ops. Anslo is the only one that even came close, he at least gave some reasonable fitting advice. It's hardly CCP's fault that both the AG people and carebears are for the most part ignorant of game mechanics, who want change because they don't want to learn the existing ones, who dislike those that do understand the game mechanics.

Quote:
It's no fun to spend your time foiling gankers who can just try again 15 minutes later. Not to mention that actually fighting them involves things like suicide ganking their bumpers and logistics, turning the good guys into the criminals. And on a more fundamental level highsec PvE players are not looking to be the police....they are not interested in engaging in PvP combat without CONCORD protection - that is the whole reason they live in highsec.
So short sighted. If you can't hit the gankers directly, hit them elsewhere, I suggested some options earlier. Suicide ganking bumpers and logistics associated with gankers makes you a vigilante, not a criminal. Be the Batman to their Joker. You might learn something in the process.

Quote:
One thing I do agree with CODE on - their getting PvE focused highsec "carebears" to turn into hardened PvP players is a victory for them, and as they have told me, for every 10 that start out in AG, 9 out of those 10 end up joining CODE because it's more fun to the be the bad guy.
If AG were at all effective as a group, and actually knew what they were doing that may not be the case. AG are a joke, they couldn't organise an evenings entertainment in a brothel, and most haven't got a clue, gankers on the other hand are organised and know exactly what they're doing.

Quote:
The way to defeat CODE is to refuse to PvP with them, to call out their repugnant tactics on the forums, and the concomitant harm to new/casual players, and to push CCP to adjust the police force so that it is capable of adequately dealing with criminals. That's what I do, and will continue to do. Thankfully PvP is taking the first step by knocking awoxxing right out of commission.
You keep right on doing so, and myself and others will keep right on pushing back, ingame and on the forums.

You've never experienced the aftermath of a nerf to highsec PvP have you? If I know the Belligerent Undesirable types in highsec, things are about to get a lot worse for those who fail to protect themselves.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Commentus Nolen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#187 - 2014-11-04 02:45:57 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
You can't control territory in highsec like you can in null. There is no effective solution to get rid of the gankers. I can't bubble all the gates and deny them docking rights in the stations. Highsec isn't designed to let players enforce the law, it's designed to let police enforce the law.
That kind of thinking is why you fail.

How is being able to shoot at a suspect or criminal not enabling you to hit gankers? How is the public list of shareholders not enabling you to go after one of their income streams via wardecs and merc contracts? Gankers have alts, they have a logistics chain, most are kill on sight, figure out their instaundocks, camp them; camp the stations with fast locking alpha, a gank cat is extremely squishy, ECM them, just do something that shows some creative thinking and doesn't involve you posting on the forums.

Hook up with Anslo, kill Dryson for doing more harm to the image of antiganking than anything else.
Educate, teach newbies that going AFK isn't a particularly good idea neither is shooting at the guy that just stole some loot, the basics of tanking beyond the limited scope of a tutorial that give an Amarr player a shield tanking skill book, that people will come and explode their stuff if they allow them to.

Teach them that risk is a fact in Eve and how to minimise it.


People already do these things - ineffectively. It's no fun to spend your time foiling gankers who can just try again 15 minutes later. Not to mention that actually fighting them involves things like suicide ganking their bumpers and logistics, turning the good guys into the criminals. And on a more fundamental level highsec PvE players are not looking to be the police....they are not interested in engaging in PvP combat without CONCORD protection - that is the whole reason they live in highsec.

One thing I do agree with CODE on - their getting PvE focused highsec "carebears" to turn into hardened PvP players is a victory for them, and as they have told me, for every 10 that start out in AG, 9 out of those 10 end up joining CODE because it's more fun to the be the bad guy.

The way to defeat CODE is to refuse to PvP with them, to call out their repugnant tactics on the forums, and the concomitant harm to new/casual players, and to push CCP to adjust the police force so that it is capable of adequately dealing with criminals. That's what I do, and will continue to do. Thankfully PvP is taking the first step by knocking awoxxing right out of commission.


Are you role playing or is this for real?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#188 - 2014-11-04 02:47:32 UTC
Commentus Nolen wrote:


Are you role playing or is this for real?


Playing what role? Disinterested Observer? Professor of highsec?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#189 - 2014-11-04 02:47:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Commentus Nolen wrote:
Are you role playing or is this for real?
Believe it, he may be delusional but he's for real.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#190 - 2014-11-04 02:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:



You've never experienced the aftermath of a nerf to highsec PvP have you? If I know the Belligerent Undesirable types in highsec, things are about to get a lot worse for those who fail to protect themselves.


Sorry, was laughing too hard at this part. I believe that reasoned discourse is an important part of Eve, and debated CODE on their in game minerbumping channel until they banned, and until a couple of weeks ago was on the in game BU channel until Arden banned me for refusing to join/support CODE. 90% of the time there was spent either watching people engaged in petty fights in chat with each other, or suspect baiting mission runners, etc... The idea that they have either the manpower or the resources to light highsec on fire is, quite simply, laughable.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2014-11-04 03:44:56 UTC
The best way to avoid a gank is to haul as much expensive stuff you can in a t1 untanked hauler on autopilot and for extra safety tell me when and where you do this.

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Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#192 - 2014-11-04 04:39:37 UTC
Every time someone replies to a Veers shiptoast the Flying Spaghetti Monster eats a kitten.
Stahp.
Think of the kittens.

Years of mining, never ganked... even back in ye olde days when I was still mining in a cormy to try to save up the money for my first barge.

Same years, so much hauling, mostly in badgers. Blapped a few times in low and null, but high sec? Negative, a few pucker moments but that was pretty much it... well, that and avoiding Jita like the plague.

Special snowflake? Oh no. I was simply put, living in fear every time I undocked in a non-combat ship... and loving it. It was a dark and scary place, especially before warp to zero.

It's quite a bit less scary now, kids these days just don't believe that and are unwilling to listen to good advice because they already know better.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Clair Bear
Perkone
Caldari State
#193 - 2014-11-04 04:46:06 UTC
I didn't even train haulers until I took a nullbear vacation. Empire is just too scary, better stay docked.

So to recap, it's not possible to keep from being ganked, EVERYTHING is gankable given enough alpha. Best you can do is make yourself less of a target, a slightly faster gazelle than your neighbor.

Also, buy some of New Order's stock. Without their selfless efforts less stuff would blow up and you'd have to grind harder to afford that PLEX for each alt.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#194 - 2014-11-04 06:40:34 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
The best way to avoid a gank is to haul as much expensive stuff you can in a t1 untanked hauler on autopilot and for extra safety tell me when and where you do this.


You and I are on opposite sides of the pond - we should do this as a joint venture for maximum timezone coverage.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Gryphon Infinite
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#195 - 2014-11-04 06:42:44 UTC
Fly what you can afford to lose so that its no sweat off your brow. You will sleep happy and might get a laugh when the gank does happen. :)
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#196 - 2014-11-04 06:46:22 UTC
Question:
Who is the greatest shiptoaster in the veers?
Cancel Align NOW
The Distillery
Commonwealth Vanguard
#197 - 2014-11-04 07:39:13 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


Sorry, was laughing too hard at this part. I believe that reasoned discourse is an important part of Eve, and debated CODE on their in game minerbumping channel until they banned, and until a couple of weeks ago was on the in game BU channel until Arden banned me for refusing to join/support CODE. 90% of the time there was spent either watching people engaged in petty fights in chat with each other, or suspect baiting mission runners, etc... The idea that they have either the manpower or the resources to light highsec on fire is, quite simply, laughable.



Yet you campaign vigorously for their removal/nerfing/punishment. You should stand for CSM 10. Please post promotional videos on Youtube.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#198 - 2014-11-04 07:46:14 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
It is not complete nonsense - your advice - to be "tanked enough" is in the Code after all. There is a lot of good stuff in there to help you avoid being suicide ganked. Despite what you claim permits aren't revoked lightly but this discussion has be hashed out to death - I suggest you check out this thread for one such discussion.
But permits themselves are irrelevant, whether you give out good advice or not. In the thread you've linked is this:
Quote:
I've found the best way to verify a permit is to attempt to gank. Valid permit holders, who are following The Code, cannot be ganked.

Should the gank succeed, then the permit was obviously invalid, seeing as how valid permit holders following The Code cannot be ganked.
So holding a permit is completely irrelevant.

La Nariz wrote:
More of your dinsdale crap.
Dinsdale rarely posts anything close to facts. Everything I've stated there can be verified with ease.
You are speculating and passing it off as an elaborate conspiracy.

No, I am not. There's no conspiracy involved. If you are tanked enough for your permit to be considered valid, then you don't need a permit anyway, so the permit itself is irrelevant. How you think that is conspiracy talk rather than plain old fact is beyond me. I guess your incredible desire to defend the code guys leaves logic and rationality to one side.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
#199 - 2014-11-04 08:27:53 UTC
if you see my venture parking right next to your barge

RUN

Everything's a game if you make it one - Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci

CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase - Frostys Virpio

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#200 - 2014-11-04 09:01:49 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Question:
Who is the greatest shiptoaster in the veers?


I want to say lucasanslodrysonmrepeendinsdalexenuriapotatooverdoseveerssarahflyntjenniferenmarlandlarynx, but it's probably actually Jenn. P

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff