EVE General Discussion

I was planning on training things that I would use on occasion, like many other pilots do, logistics, maybe strategic cruiser, but yeah the majority of my time would still be small ship solo pvp. IDK, it just seems a bit odd that it would actually benefit me to cease training any further and sell SPs in the form of characters for isk. I'm not that averse to the idea TBH, it just never occurred to me before reading this thread and it seems a bit odd CCP would want anyone to reach this point with their character.

I have no objection to the general idea that being podded should have consequences, including maybe ISK consequences, but clone costs are currently tied very illogically to character SP. At 30M SP you pay 2.1M ISK per clone and have a decent skill-set and earning ability. But after 120M SP you're forking out *fifteen times that amount*. That isn't sensible scaling: you don't have anywhere near fifteen times as much power or income.

And the possibility of repeatedly losing 30M ISK when podded in a frigate (or dictor etc.) definitely does piss people off and discourage fun – which is terrible game design. It may not be the largest sum of money you'll lose in the game, but it's so disproportionate and arbitrary. It's like finding yourself in a shithole of a country and being charged $10 for a can of beer. Yeah, you pay, but you're muttering about it all afternoon afterwards, right?

Cap the cost at 2.1M ISK. This provides a little ISK sink, allows characters some reduction up to 30M SP (at which point they are no longer newbies, surely) and all the other consequences of being podded are retained or even magnified by Phoebe.

The point that ccp made about this at eve vegas (and the csm minutes) was rather simple. CCP has come out of 'repair the game mode' and are now looking at old systems for ways to improve them and scale them towards the future. They are essentially looking at things and deciding to give more power and choice to the players. There is ZERO choice in upgrading your clone. Its automatic, you do it because the risk of having to retrain a long skill due to death is a pita.

And if you say live in WH space, upgrading your clone can be an even bigger pita.

The point ccp made, was they are reexamining everything in eve, and looking at places where stuff that made sense when the game was built, or seemed like a good idea at the time, now look like crap. They have data, and they are using it. CCP stated, that they want to look at death cloning, they feel it is unnessicary, provides no choice and no options to players, and should be removed. They had ideas for ways to improve the system, like giving you, a player, the choice. You can pay for extra bells and whistles on yoru clone if you want, or you can chose not to. But then at least you have a choice. And it gives ccp the ability to make things like perma death, with some people will play eve on.

You have games coming that are not so much sandboxes, but are in space. Games that will attract players who want less grit. CCP is focusing on the factor that makes eve awesome, the sand in the sand box. Death cloning is basicly the choice between wearing sunscreen at the beach, or getting cancer tomorrow. That's it. There is zero choice. However, if they change it.. just think of what they could do... 'you can wear sunscree, or sun tan oil and tan, or use an umbrella, or.. etc." The point is, choice for players is always a good thing.

And anyone saying 'well this was not a problem a few years ago' is correct. Because only recently I would say a majority of eve players broke the 100m sp mark. And I think when they made changes to ceptors and small ships they are not seeing as big an impact. And as I stated already, my clone is around 30-40m, so its not cost effective for me to fly in anything that cost less then my clone. a 10m isk setup for a frig that popes is not cost effective. Nor is it cost effective when I have to break a blockade in 0.0 and wind up dying 10 times in an hour (lucly when I did do this, I only had a 5m isk clone) But it still means you have no choice.

The most whining in this thread is coming from people in alliances with ship replacement policies. PVP for free is just not good enough for these entitled 'elite PVPers'. Now they're demanding near free clone replacement on these characters that they chose to train to the level they can't afford to lose.

Here's an idea. Just don't update your clone. Get podded enough times and you'll find it affordable again.

Mr Epeen

Seriously do you think the system currently is any good? It's a minor ISK sink in the overall system of sinks and EVE certainly doesn't need it. If it is deemed vital it can be easily compensated for in other areas. There also aren't any good choices or gameplay there. You always upgrade your clone after death, no exceptions. SP loss itself sucks ass and isn't a consequense of a meanigful choice. It's just punishment for ignorance or forgetfulness. It could go and 99% of players wouldn't know the difference. Hell CCP could stealth patch it today and most people would probably go through their entire EVE careers without knowing it has been removed. What exactly do you find so good about it or did you just want to make a Grrrr nullsec - post?

A large isk sink has just been added to the game with Industry. There is certainly room for the removal of a small isk sink from clones.
Additionally a perpetually scaling cost that hits your oldest players the hardest is never a good thing. If there is to be a cost associated with pod loss, it should be a flat fee to replace the pod. However since the Pod is actually a Jovian experiment, the base pod/clone should be 'free' i.e. So cheap as to be basically inconsequential. Also if there is a cost then anyone with a 0 wallet can't ever PvP even if given ships. Which is... Bad.
There can then be vanity pods which do cost isk when you lose them to maintain a small sink. (Army of pink pods!)

Personally I think they should get rid of implants too, but I'm a crazy person.

Just because you didn't notice it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Nullsec stagnation is a related but separate issue.


This was a problem back then as much as it is now. Nobody's "suddenly" saying any of these things.
Maybe if you slowed down and typed properly instead of things like "doesn't worth the effort" you'd be able to collect your thoughts.

It's extremely irrational at a base level, when you consider the differences between type X or type Y are frequently only a matter of hours or a couple days over the course of a year, - triggering replies to the effect of 'just fly with cheaper implants... however:

Total clone cost ends up coming down to Learning implants + Med Clone.

While perhaps nearly heretical and seemingly entitled to suggest it: Remove both costs, and you remove the irrational risk vs. cost calculation they create when a player considers undocking in a pvp frigate. Frigates will still cost what they do but more of them can be undocked and lost in pvp.

Or just stop training / build a focused alt.

Weird how silly and stupid some people are, I am not trying to promote my idea except for every time some complaint about a pod/clone cost comes up. That's someone else, haven't visited the thread in like 4 days.

As always, risk what you can fly and that pod included. Thread keeps going, means lots of terrible players who keep dying and not shooting red crosses and/or other ways to make isk like playing the market (hint: EVE isn't a FPS, respawn aka Planet Side and keep going....you do have to do other things). Don't have to PVP 30 days a month, set some time aside and fund enough to keep you pods updated

edit: typo

Also, here is another idea. Purchase more than 3 character slots using PLEX (CCP would love this idea), allow death clones or sectioning off of SP of your main to a "lesser clone" with the same name that doesn't even have to die. Done. We have multiple clones, like 10 now? fully skilled out (only came back less than 2 months ago, still figuring out that jump clone skill) and why can you not just have clones that fly small ships, medium ships, medium combo ships (BC class), and large ships with only their SP asscosiated + support....now you got smaller clone costs, with specialized clones, with the same character name, only problem is that nasty jump timer . Meh, think of it as changing out "character" class in some of the other MMO games out there.