Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Frigates depend directly on their velocity to reduce damage from larger vessels enough to a point that it can last longer than it normally would. A web directly counters this by reducing the velocity that they travel by a large percentage. Reducing their overall non-statistical ehp. Warp bubbles preventing your escape are not a direct counteraction to your survival they are an implicit obstacle that is overcome. Therefore they are not directly comparable to webs.

maybe not bubbles yup scrams and warp distruptors are as they are the only direct means of keeping a ship on field. If you only use a web when the frig starts to break cause of the "extra dmg it would take from moving slower" it can just warp out faster than it would of without web.

edit: also velocity is nothing they depend on traversal and sig radius

But Ralph, there could be a chance of hitting a fig using a web on it. How bad is that? It completely negates them, apparently.

It is not that there is a chance of hitting them that is bad, and that is not completely negating them by itself, but a ship that is so fragile under those guns and requires so much precision to fly in combination with that chance to hit is what negates them. Average frigs have 5k-10k ehp, average cruiser has 15-24+, not having the ability to survive anything more than a grazing shot from those guns is what makes that pointless. Good frigate pilots are very skilled and knowledgeable of engagements, that seem to be an odd thing to counter with something as arbitrary as a single uncostly module.

I've flown both frigates and battleships.

Assuming a battleship has 4 mid slots... unless the battleship has two webs, it will have serious trouble tracking smaller ships (even more so if the frigate is AB and/or TD fit).
But in fitting two webs the battleship gives up the ability to fit other mods that might help in other situations (like ECCM, cap booster, tracking computer, etc)... making it weaker in "lateral"/"asymmetrical" type engagements. That is a classic trade off right there.

However... it isn't the webs alone that stacks the odds in favor of the battleship over a frigate. If it was only webs, you would see a lot more dead frigates and no comedy kills where frigates grind down battleships.

It is the battleship's ability to fit more than one counter that puts frigates at a disadvantage. Heavy energy neuts, drones, scrams, massive tank... each one of these by themselves can be worked around by frigates. In combination, they create a lethal point-defense system. But not all battleships can fit these things equally (or at the same time).

Ships like the Abaddon and Megathron rely on webs and drones as their primary (and only) means of point defense. They can't fit neuts without giving up a gun... scrams woulds force them to get into a a range where their weapons might be fairly useless (because large weapons need SOME range to do any real damage, even against another battleship)... so you end up with ships that are fitted with no neuts, long points, and no more than a single web (because they will cap themselves out just firing the guns without a cap booster).

Then again... there are big ships that no smaller ship should engage because the primary weapon system IS the point defense weapon... drone ships being the most obvious.


In all honesty OP... you seem a little "green" to me and don't really understand that counters to counters are not all nice and neat. Or limited to specific modules.
Try flying some larger ships. Double web it and everything. Go out and solo low-sec. Find out the hard way.


Not exactly. It has more to do with the angles you are flying at, in addition to speed, in relation to the ship you are up against.

If you are manually orbiting a large ship and never come at an angle where your trajectory is similar (see: you never come up parallel to it)... the transversal will always be off and the large turrets will have trouble tracking you.

i wish i insta pop'ed frigs with only a glancing blow/grazing shot with just a single web on the frig. I find that large guns on frigs are useless when frig is close web or no web. Its my drones that benefit from the web way more than my guns which for most battleships can carry a med set and a light.


a web will lower your velocity allowing a frig to orbit the bs closer keeping traversal up to still not get hit by large guns.

I appreciate the valid points that everyone brought up in this discussion, thank you for bringing your opinions to the table, and helping me reformulated my opinion. My ultimate decision is that webs should scale in capacitor and cpu requirements for larger vessels. They should receive longer range but lesser penalty modifiers on these larger webifiers. Lastly, and most importantly, webs should directly effect the INERTIA MODIFIER of effected ships rather than the maximum velocity. This change will directly tamper with the frigate pilots ability to fly accurately now that his ship handles like a larger ship, this tampering will make it in turn easier to damage the target when he attempts to make alterations to his flight path being that he will turn slower when attempting to make turns and accelerate slower when making these turns, but will not be hindered in his escape because his maximum velocity will remain the same. This type of web will make it more difficult to small ships to remain in tight orbit around larger ships, allow larger vessels to still have some type of range dictation, and will allow frigate pilots to still utilize their two main advantages: speed and signature radius. This will also allow the frigate pilot to have his ship hampered by having to increase the difficulty of flying it like, turning in between cycle times of lager guns as to avoid being hit, choosing the best time to retreat, and also increase the variance of the damage that the frigate takes in close quarters; if, while webbed, the frigate pilot must come to a near dead halt in order to effectively make his turn, this will force him to time when he does so, or face zeroing his transversal and being subject to guns anyway, or dropping tackle; however this will still allow the frigate pilot to keep his maximum velocity and open up more options for combat, rather than being forced to commit once entering scram range. The added range to the larger vessels webs will call for combat against smalls to be more focused on keeping range and narrowing transversal rather than simply making the target as slow as possible. Missiles who are not oriented by transversal might see an actual increase in damage projection now that targets have the ability to be slowed further at particular intervals. Multiple webs won't be as necessary seeing as the ship being webbed can have a lower velocity for much longer than webs as they are currently with this type of web. That being said the increase in fitting requirements for them won't be as penalizing. Factions cruisers and other ships with web bonuses will heighten this effect even greater by even further hindering the ships ability to turn. I hope this idea is more appealing to everyone involved. I am finished responding to this thread and will do it no further.


Edit: Mistaken double post.

Thank goodness. For this is worst is almost all respects. missiles will see a decrease in dps as the frig will just keep going at max velocity and just orbit at a wider distance. How would web drones be balanced with this?

WTF ?

1. A larger more expensive hull should have an advantage

2. Where are you getting these figures that you need a 70 mil frig to take on a 30 mil cruiser, you need to accept there's a risk you will not succeed when taking on a larger ship class, that is balanced.

3. If I engaged a cruiser in a frig, it's not the web that would bother me it's the possibility of a neut. You make it sound like having a web is a guarantee of killing a frig/tackle in a cruiser, it's not. Even a neut isn't a guarantee but it's a lot closer to one than a web.

4. You think a "repurposed nano cruiser" suicide tackles better than a frigate ? It doesn't if you can't fly one , frigates can do a lot of stuff well, maybe not the best but the point is that they are entry level ships. I still fly them all the time specifically because they appear weak, they are cheap and people will engage them. I accept, in fact I embrace their limitations. The rest of the game's hulls do not need nerfing just so you can derp around in frigs on a level playing field to bigger hulls.

Myrm versus Frigates

I think the OP needs to fly something other than frigates, against frigates, to get some perspective. I took that Myrm out looking for a fight, and got one pretty quickly. The Imperial Navy Slicer came in first and his friends arrived shortly after. Now I was outnumbered and going to lose for sure, but if webs are as powerful as you say I should have taken at least one or two of them down with me.

The first frigate that came within 11km of me was my target, I charged him with my MWD, disrupted and webbed him. With a full flight of hull boosted Warrior II's, and my Autocannons firing, I got him to about 1/3rd armor before he made it out of web range and another 50km past that to safety. So I charged the next closest guy, overheated my armor repper , and tried the same thing. I never even got that guy into armor, although I suspect my Warrior II's were off chasing the other guy for part of that time. Adrenaline is a ***** when you you need to concentrate...

Anyway, I could have fit double webs, maybe in place of the ECCM module, but this was a general solo roaming fit. I did't know who or what I would face. Even so, two webs might have gotten me a kill or two, but wouldn't have won the fight. And to be clear, it shouldn't have.