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[Proposal] Get rid of learning implants.
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Goose99
#181 - 2011-12-13 19:03:12 UTC
Mixu Paatelainen wrote:
MNagy wrote:
Mixu Paatelainen wrote:
Supported. Long since given up on learning implants. Whether something takes 19 days or 16, who cares?


I always liked the 'implant' portion of the game.

Even more so now that a pod kill shows the expensive implants you have popped.


I guess, but the 6-10 slot ones are expensive too, nobody is clamouring for them to get removed.


Those "nobodies" aka goons are too cheap to use hardwirings. Young minds are eager to learn though...Lol
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#182 - 2011-12-13 19:32:08 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Those "nobodies" aka goons are too cheap to use hardwirings. Young minds are eager to learn though...Lol


I wonder what bullshit you'd be spewing if I posted this with an unaffiliated alt?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Orisa Medeem
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#183 - 2011-12-14 15:04:19 UTC
On one hand, it's about choice. You can put a +5 set and go PvP (theoretically) or you can stay docked, or you can just not use a +5 set at all and go anywhere, anytime you want. It is probably to give players some choices that those learning implants where implemented in the first place.

On the other hand, when most players see themselves required to choose always the same option, then the "choice" became illusory and that option became for all purposes a mandatory one.

Sometimes I wonder if the struggle, while the most apparent, is in fact just the second most important feature of the game. Apparently, a lot of players considers that progression, their sacred skill training, comes first.

I acknowledge the problem. People should not see themselves excluded from the multiplayer aspects of the game because this kind of stupid reasons. I'm just not so certain what the best solution is.

:sand:  over  :awesome:
Goose99
#184 - 2011-12-14 15:13:59 UTC
Orisa Medeem wrote:
On one hand, it's about choice. You can put a +5 set and go PvP (theoretically) or you can stay docked, or you can just not use a +5 set at all and go anywhere, anytime you want. It is probably to give players some choices that those learning implants where implemented in the first place.

On the other hand, when most players see themselves required to choose always the same option, then the "choice" became illusory and that option became for all purposes a mandatory one.

Sometimes I wonder if the struggle, while the most apparent, is in fact just the second most important feature of the game. Apparently, a lot of players considers that progression, their sacred skill training, comes first.

I acknowledge the problem. People should not see themselves excluded from the multiplayer aspects of the game because this kind of stupid reasons. I'm just not so certain what the best solution is.


The solution to goon risk aversion? Well, it is clearly to remove risk from Eve.Big smile
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2011-12-14 15:22:18 UTC
Orisa Medeem wrote:
I acknowledge the problem. People should not see themselves excluded from the multiplayer aspects of the game because this kind of stupid reasons. I'm just not so certain what the best solution is.


The multiplayer aspect is central to any MMO. There shouldn't be gameplay mechanics that discourage people from playing with others, I would argue that it's a good idea to have many mechanics that encourage people to play with others.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#186 - 2011-12-14 17:49:50 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
risk aversion


...yet you post from an alt

if you can't realize that your opinion is absolutely invalid, I cannot help you

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tarikan
Preload Thorium
Insidious.
#187 - 2011-12-14 19:16:23 UTC
i thought over it, since at first i was against it...but i realized that it would be for the better in eve. Lose the Learning implants!
Amarr Champine
Doomheim
#188 - 2011-12-15 05:10:49 UTC
Andski wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
risk aversion


...yet you post from an alt

if you can't realize that your opinion is absolutely invalid, I cannot help you



Lol, I don't see why this alt thing is such a big deal? Same person despite the character. They don't agree with you and your response is to call them cowards and go on and on about alts. Come back with a real response. Dude grow up. Clown.
Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#189 - 2011-12-15 05:16:38 UTC
I find this extremely convenient that this discussion comes up when Implants are added to killmails.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2011-12-15 12:03:18 UTC
didn't we just finish the same ***** argument about learning skills?
Manique
Ominous Corp
#191 - 2011-12-15 14:05:07 UTC
Oh! If you don't want implants, don't use them! :) They are working as intended giving new levels of risk vs reward to the offended/offenders.

Your problem is 24h timer on the clones, but that is working as intended as well !

There has to be some obstacles otherwise it will make you stop concerning about your character! And I'm sure people love when the one they destroy whine about loosing his hard working skill boosting implants :).
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#192 - 2011-12-15 14:23:21 UTC
Amarr Champine wrote:
Lol, I don't see why this alt thing is such a big deal? Same person despite the character. They don't agree with you and your response is to call them cowards and go on and on about alts. Come back with a real response. Dude grow up. Clown.


Your credibility diminishes significantly when you discuss "risk aversion" with an unaffiliated forum alt, that's why.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#193 - 2011-12-15 16:52:41 UTC
Velin Dhal wrote:
Andski wrote:
Velin Dhal wrote:
If you want skill trees layed out for you then go play WoW or Rift.


"Go play this other game, EVE should be undocumented and bad"


EVE is in no way undocumented or bad. EVE is fairly unique and should stay that way. I'm sorry if people want the game to be "dumbed down" because they are incapable of understanding something more complex than a game that has your plan laid out for you from day 1.



Hey I've got a better idea let's remove the skill descriptions. That way EVE will be even more unique and less dumb than WOW. People should figure out what ''tactical logistics reconfiguration'' does by themselves.

No seriously graphical skill trees aren't dumb or WOW, they're just logical. Having to click on every single skill OR use a third party program/wiki to figure out the skill dependencies is a bit ********. I actually did just that but it would just make more sense for it to be included in the game.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Xantos Semah
#194 - 2011-12-16 12:43:07 UTC
- 1
Not supported

REMOVE LOCAL !!!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#195 - 2011-12-16 18:11:53 UTC

Fly what you can afford to lose... If you can't lose your pirate implants, or your +5's, then don't use them.

How much of an isk sink are implants for the eve economy?? I'm willing to bet its quite significant...
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#196 - 2011-12-16 18:13:15 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Fly what you can afford to lose... If you can't lose your pirate implants, or your +5's, then don't use them.

How much of an isk sink are implants for the eve economy?? I'm willing to bet its quite significant...


if only everyone was as bright as you

read the OP again

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lithrie
Palaridian Order
#197 - 2011-12-16 19:48:05 UTC
Training takes to long already no reason to make it take even longer.

there NO THANX keep the training implants

EVE IS MORE THAN PVP

supplement to training ( idea about fleet training )
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=47300&find=unread

SIGN
Lithrie
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#198 - 2011-12-16 23:00:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Andski wrote:
why do learning implants exist?


Learning Implants Exist to Boost your training time.

Assuming 2 implants, this is the daily skillpoint boost, and the apporximate cost:
+5's earn 10,800 At 200+Million Isk
+4's earn 8,640 At 50ish Million isk
+3's earn 6,480 At 25ish Million isk
+2's earn 4,320 At 5 Million Isk
+1's earn 2,160 At 1 Million Isk

These equate to about a 4% bonus to training per implant point level.

Andski wrote:
How can their continued existence be justified?


Implants are a SIGNIFICANT isk sink in this game. This game needs isk sinks to balance isk sources, or something called inflation happens.

Andski wrote:
You need them to train your hyperoptimized per/will skillplan as fast as possible, sure, but why should you need them to begin with?


You don't NEED implants... you can learn just fine without them. And you sure as **** don't NEED +5 Implants!!

I fly interceptors and dictors all the time with +3's and +4's in. When I was a poor noob starting out in nullsec, I would use +1's and +2's. Does this put me at a skillpoint disadvantage over a pilot that flies with only +5s... sure... but SO WHAT. Skillpoints only go so far in this game... The skillpoint differences between a 50m sp combat pilot and 70m sp combat pilot almost NEVER matter, and more often than not, they both get wtfbbqpwned by the 4m sp pilot that understands how to pilot their ship to take advantage of game mechanics.

Now, lets review your problems with learning implants:
Andski wrote:
They discourage people from playing EVE.

No they don't.... If you quit flying in space becuase you have implants in your head, then nullsec isn't for you... Hint: You might have an EvE problem when you think a day of optimal training is more important than having fun!!!

Andski wrote:
losing your ship in a bubble is a surefire way to get podded

So what... eve has consequences....ShockedShocked. What Next?? Losing your ship in PvP is bad for the game, becuase it discourages people from PvPing. "I can't undock in my rifter, cause someone might blow it up.... Why can't it just respawn in station??"
------WOW ----->>>

** Cant put more than 5 quotes in a post.... damn....
"They are seeded exclusively through LP stores rather than being made in-game entirely. "
This isn't a reason to remove implants!

"Characters that need pirate faction implants for any reason are essentially stuck with +3s. "

You mean they can't have a spouse, a gf, and a hooker all at the same time... oh the humanity..... Not being able to train at +5 rates is a small price to pay for the enormous benefits they provide. And if its that important, they can JC to a learning clone when they don't need the pirtate implants!!!

Let me restate the most important aspect of this post:
You might have an EvE problem when you think a day of optimal training is more important than having fun!!!
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#199 - 2011-12-16 23:07:54 UTC
Prior to the killmail buff (implants showing up) I would have said yes...maybe.

Now that they show up on killmails?

Hell

No.

Why take away something that gives PVP'ers more E-peen enjoyment.

I hate killmails for sure...rather see the system nuked and burried.

But I have to live with whats in the game...and the removal of said implants takes away the distinct possiblity of that enjoyment for myself....and def. for everyone else.


TLDR: You want them gone? Nuke Killmails...otherwise...forget it. All or Nuthin.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#200 - 2011-12-17 08:57:41 UTC
Orisa Medeem wrote:
On one hand, it's about choice. You can put a +5 set and go PvP (theoretically) or you can stay docked, or you can just not use a +5 set at all and go anywhere, anytime you want. It is probably to give players some choices that those learning implants where implemented in the first place.

On the other hand, when most players see themselves required to choose always the same option, then the "choice" became illusory and that option became for all purposes a mandatory one.

Sometimes I wonder if the struggle, while the most apparent, is in fact just the second most important feature of the game. Apparently, a lot of players considers that progression, their sacred skill training, comes first.

I acknowledge the problem. People should not see themselves excluded from the multiplayer aspects of the game because this kind of stupid reasons. I'm just not so certain what the best solution is.


People are in no way excluded from the multiplayer aspects of this game because they have +5 learning implants. EVE Online is about player choice. Anyone who sees themselves excluded is CHOOSING to exclude themselves. That is not a failure of the game, its a failure of the player.

Everything is this game is about choice. You choose what to train. You choose what to fly. You choose how to fit your ships. You choose to sit in +5 learning implants. See how it works ?

If you can't except risk versus reward then perhaps you shouldn't be worried about PvP in the first place.