These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Federation and its oppressed nations

Author
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#81 - 2014-11-02 22:14:48 UTC
The Federation must be destroyed, citizens!

Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Baseliners have... vivid imaginations. I did a galnet search two hours after the Masquerade last night. The amount of fics pairing me and Aldrith with various success rates were a source of endless amusement. I suspect they may be less amusing for my erstwhile dance partner.


This one specimen completely lacks ability to read what the conversation was about before posting.
A lot of brainwashed by gallentean tribals show such symptoms. They don't realize where they are, they don't understand what people say. Practically, speaking with them is waste of time.

And this is why the Federation must be destroyed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#82 - 2014-11-02 22:29:55 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Great. Another slashfic is born.

Welcome to the club, youngster. Verin and I have had to deal with it for years.


Don't get me started on slashfic with me and Verin.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2014-11-02 23:49:28 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Don't get me started on slashfic with me and Verin.

I was aware of its existence.

There's a hell of a lot that plays off the otherwise unrelated conspiracy theory that he's your tube child genetic donor.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#84 - 2014-11-03 00:05:26 UTC
The Federation must be destroyed, Mr. Elle!

3ll3 wrote:
Ms Kim I do apologise for having you repeat the same answer in your last transmission but I needed to make sure before I could come to any real conclusive conclusion as to effectiveness of your suggested stratagem and thought regarding the termination of the Federation.

No worries about it, I have used already to be asked same questions over and over again, as to object same lies about me, that appear with regular basis. Sometimes, I think I should made some prepared links, so I don't have each time to write or say what I have said earlier... I will think about it when I will have a bit more time.

3ll3 wrote:

Now to start off what after having sieved through all the facts and removed all the emotional factors along with any biased details so that I am left with nothing but pure cold logical fact I have found that while you have noted you did not intend for genocide of the Gallentean faction within the Federation you do seek their eradication along with their way of living and ideology.

Correction: eradication from our society and societies of others.
In their own society and on their own planets I don't care what way or living and which ideology they will follow, if they will leave if for themselves and won't try to infect others.

And, Mr. Elle, if you wish to discuss some things with me, without switching the conversation to your person instead, I would strongly recommend you to never make any assumptions about me like that ever again. Deal?

3ll3 wrote:

Now while you have your reasons for this I have marked this particular factor of my results rather than discarded them as emotional biased factors so I might contemplate how you might logically achieve such an action.
Your explanation of how this would be achieved by the Caldari State relies heavily upon this ideology being a form of Brainwashing and that the other factions within the Federation would need to wake up to this, however I have run through this from multiple prospective finding it flawed in one major aspect.
This being the variable that it may well not be brainwashing but an actual social norm that the people of the Federation share.
In the same way the people of the Caldari trust and follow the directives and organisation of the State….and no Ms Kim I am not launching a verbal assault upon the Caldari State or denouncing it in any shape form or way.

Now let’s for arguments sake say it is a form of brainwashing Ms Kim please consider the implications of the other Factions within the Federation should they not as you put it wake up from this and continue to follow this ideology.
While you would have weakened the Federation the Ideology in which you seek to remove would still exist and yes I you can go on about this and that but the fact of the matter would remain it would still be alive.
Now say also that the Federation was wiped out in order to remove this ideology what about the Capsule pilots that still follow this Ideology, they would still be around and while destroying an entire race is one thing hunting down individual pilots in both High to low and to zero security status areas of space would from a logical and logistical stand point prove to be quite implausible.

Ahh, this is an interesting point to discuss, thank you!

Well, I could have easily shown why I believe it is brainwashing, but if you insist, we will go straight to the next part.

You see, the brainwashing, that the Federation is pulling, is constant and persistent, it forces people to think in terms of their program, that is fed to people through every media and advertisement. With their removal people can actually start thinking for themselves, without constant "correction" by the media, what would be "good" and what would be "bad". It will require peoples to actually think and analyze, and their fate will depend on their ability to use their heads themselves.

The ideology behind this brainwashing will persist, eventually, but without constant beating it into heads of every citizen, it won't be widespread and enforced.

Implication of other Faction following such ideology in mass? - They will just degrade themselves as gallenteans. It is a pity, but we can't do anything, people will have to think for themselves, and the Universe doesn't have tolerance to weakness.

And the story about Capsuleers, it shouldn't be a concern as well, as supply of new capsuleers will be not brainwashed. As the Federation won't be existent at that moment, there will be completely different standards for access to the program for ex-federation descents. As for the old capsuleers, you see, most of them are kept brainwashed, as gallentean media is, unfortunately, wide available to capsuleers as well. Even some of "Caldari" peoples might get hooked by it, and would start talking about democracy, freedoms, hedonism, individualism, like not negative things. Not everyone puts proper filters against gallente traffic on their neocoms.

But as the supply of gallentean propaganda will be depleted, we could expect majority of capsuleers to rethink and analyze data, to think with their heads and not in terms of holoreels they have watched.

Probably I am an optimist, but I believe in peoples.

Besides that, hunting them down in high- and low-security space is already my job (I usually don't come to zero security space, as it is for outlaws anyway), and in this I see no problems.

3ll3 wrote:

Now this aside for a moment lets carry onto my actual conclusion on what we have been discussing, as with above I dissected the emotional and the biased factors and came to the conclusion that success in the destruction of the Gallentean would require the defeat of the Gallente Federation military forces.

Exactly! And here comes the hard part.
But if we will succeed in uniting our peoples, frogs will have no chance,
and the Federation will be destroyed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#85 - 2014-11-03 00:59:24 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Don't get me started on slashfic with me and Verin.

I was aware of its existence.

There's a hell of a lot that plays off the otherwise unrelated conspiracy theory that he's your tube child genetic donor.


I've heard that! And the maddening thing is that it could even be true - all I know about my genetic donors is that the admixture of their genes was tried five times before my batch, purposed for military applications and that, for some reason, they were seen as sub-optimal in that role, but ideal for security applications, instead.

I've never been able to track down that elusive file index that'll reveal who those two citizens were. The most I know about them is that it's highly likely that they were both Civire.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2014-11-03 01:30:27 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I've heard that! And the maddening thing is that it could even be true - all I know about my genetic donors is that the admixture of their genes was tried five times before my batch, purposed for military applications and that, for some reason, they were seen as sub-optimal in that role, but ideal for security applications, instead.

I've never been able to track down that elusive file index that'll reveal who those two citizens were. The most I know about them is that it's highly likely that they were both Civire.

If you delve deep enough into the baseliner fandom's crazier elements, you find things that are interesting and terrifying in equal measure. There are people, for instance, who've tracked down the full crew manifests of every ship I've ever destroyed, and listed every person killed this way in a database, indexed and searchable by a dizzying array of variables.

I quite honestly find this even more disturbing than the three-way slashfiction involving me, Rodj Blake and Sansha Kuvakei.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

3ll3
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2014-11-03 21:21:39 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
And, Mr. Elle, if you wish to discuss some things with me, without switching the conversation to your person instead, I would strongly recommend you to never make any assumptions about me like that ever again. Deal?

I do most deeply apologise to you Ms Kim for it was not an assumption I was making rather an observation form the previous transitions to myself and others, since it seems I am however in error on this I offer my most sincere apologies and will endeavour not to repeat this error again.
Diana Kim wrote:
The Federation must be destroyed, Mr. Elle!

I disagree with you on this Ms Kim but then my own view point is one of peace and none aggression where possible, personally I would prefer a more subtle way of obtaining such a goal to neutralize a threat on such a large scale with more none aggressive method that would lure and bring the people of the Federation around to a different way of thinking.
That is if I was a member of the Sate which I am not, I myself would prefer to win the hearts and minds of others rather than trying to use any direct force at least not unless I had to; but as I said that’s merely just my own opinion not that I doubt it’s worth much heh.

Diana Kim wrote:
Ahh, this is an interesting point to discuss, thank you!

Well, I could have easily shown why I believe it is brainwashing, but if you insist, we will go straight to the next part.

You see, the brainwashing, that the Federation is pulling, is constant and persistent, it forces people to think in terms of their program, that is fed to people through every media and advertisement. With their removal people can actually start thinking for themselves, without constant "correction" by the media, what would be "good" and what would be "bad". It will require peoples to actually think and analyze, and their fate will depend on their ability to use their heads themselves.

The ideology behind this brainwashing will persist, eventually, but without constant beating it into heads of every citizen, it won't be widespread and enforced.

Implication of other Faction following such ideology in mass? - They will just degrade themselves as gallenteans. It is a pity, but we can't do anything, people will have to think for themselves, and the Universe doesn't have tolerance to weakness.

And the story about Capsuleers, it shouldn't be a concern as well, as supply of new capsuleers will be not brainwashed. As the Federation won't be existent at that moment, there will be completely different standards for access to the program for ex-federation descents. As for the old capsuleers, you see, most of them are kept brainwashed, as gallentean media is, unfortunately, wide available to capsuleers as well. Even some of "Caldari" peoples might get hooked by it, and would start talking about democracy, freedoms, hedonism, individualism, like not negative things. Not everyone puts proper filters against gallente traffic on their neocoms.

But as the supply of gallentean propaganda will be depleted, we could expect majority of capsuleers to rethink and analyze data, to think with their heads and not in terms of holoreels they have watched.

Probably I am an optimist, but I believe in peoples.

Besides that, hunting them down in high- and low-security space is already my job (I usually don't come to zero security space, as it is for outlaws anyway), and in this I see no problems.


Hmnn I see; so if I read into this correctly the Federation is utilising or rather the Gallentean faction of the Federation is utilising the social media abuse and subliminal messages in order to perform manipulation of the people with in the Federation itself correct?
Taking into consideration it is this, though I would be surprised if there was not any form of media manipulation as all races do this to allow them to convince their people in the form of spin-doctoring.
A common action used by all races by those in authority including the Jove and Concord.

Now in regards to the second part of this I just realized something which to my embarrassment I should have taken into consideration from the start, those capsule that for argument sakes and to look at things from your perspective happen to be brain washed are podded, how will this end their possible threat since they will simply reawaken in a new body in some far off station?
I also find myself now wondering should these new Capsule Pilots enter space with fresh un-brain washed minds wouldn’t the chances of them becoming influenced by those still corrupted along with the Holo-Reel propaganda that will still remain in circulation be something to be concerned with?

Diana Kim wrote:
Exactly! And here comes the hard part.
But if we will succeed in uniting our peoples, frogs will have no chance,
and the Federation will be destroyed.


I’m sorry but I seem to have become slightly confused here, what does amphibian life forms have to do with this?
But again this is a mighty big if correct?
Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#88 - 2014-11-03 22:21:44 UTC
3ll3 wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:
Exactly! And here comes the hard part.
But if we will succeed in uniting our peoples, frogs will have no chance,
and the Federation will be destroyed.


I’m sorry but I seem to have become slightly confused here, what does amphibian life forms have to do with this?
But again this is a mighty big if correct?



"Frogs" is a derogatory term used by the Caldari to refer to the Gallente.

I believe our equivalent for them is "squids."

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2014-11-04 01:09:05 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:
3ll3 wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:
Exactly! And here comes the hard part.
But if we will succeed in uniting our peoples, frogs will have no chance,
and the Federation will be destroyed.


I’m sorry but I seem to have become slightly confused here, what does amphibian life forms have to do with this?
But again this is a mighty big if correct?



"Frogs" is a derogatory term used by the Caldari to refer to the Gallente.

I believe our equivalent for them is "squids."



Now I cannot think of the Gallente-Caldari War in terms other than gourmet food.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Kohiko Sun
Stormcrows
#90 - 2014-11-04 01:59:30 UTC
Would you like to try the Caldari Prime Rib with Legume & Air Buns?

WE WILL RETURN with your meal of titan-sized portions.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#91 - 2014-11-04 05:47:11 UTC
Kohiko Sun wrote:
Would you like to try the Caldari Prime Rib with Legume & Air Buns?

WE WILL RETURN with your meal of titan-sized portions.


What's that, Koko? Your buns are of titanic proportions?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2014-11-04 05:57:05 UTC
It's like a thousand slashfic writers cried out in ecstasy.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2014-11-04 06:12:36 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Kohiko Sun wrote:
Would you like to try the Caldari Prime Rib with Legume & Air Buns?

WE WILL RETURN with your meal of titan-sized portions.


What's that, Koko? Your buns are of titanic proportions?


The frogs are sandwiched between the titanic buns! It is very delicious!

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Kohiko Sun
Stormcrows
#94 - 2014-11-04 07:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kohiko Sun
Yaa! I was drinking tea! Choking. So much coughing! I am dying. I am dying. Haaa... I am dead.

Ohhh, more coughing.

Andreus, you should have a care before I write the story of your romance with Kimura. I will call it Duty. of Two, The Passion of One. Perhaps you will notice him this time as you toss your mahogany hair, shaking it free in a cascade while the playful and spirited wind guides the tips through a gentle dance in the golden sunlight, and your soul-reflecting orbs gaze longingly into one another's as you stand at the top of the highest mountain! (Winds and mountains. Tuulinen will like this.)

Piepie, you are meant to be culturally sensitive to my hot buttons. Of course my buns are big. You are very big and very hungry. If I only had small buns to offer you when you visit, you would not be satisfied, and that would be improper.

And Pilot Egivand, these frogs are violating many, many important regulations. One is the required amount of the surf and the turf. The Seafood Oversight Board (the S.O.B.s) has very clearly said there can be no more than 40% surf to 60% turf. These frogs are amphibians. They are 50/50! You do not wish to be the one holding a frog when those S.O.B.s are looking.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-11-04 07:58:24 UTC
Kohiko Sun wrote:
Andreus, you should have a care before I write the story of your romance with Kimura. I will call it Duty. of Two, The Passion of One. Perhaps you will notice him this time as you toss your mahogany hair, shaking it free in a cascade while the playful and spirited wind guides the tips through a gentle dance in the golden sunlight, and your soul-reflecting orbs gaze

... proceed.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2014-11-04 09:15:47 UTC
Kohiko Sun wrote:

And Pilot Egivand, these frogs are violating many, many important regulations. One is the required amount of the surf and the turf. The Seafood Oversight Board (the S.O.B.s) has very clearly said there can be no more than 40% surf to 60% turf. These frogs are amphibians. They are 50/50! You do not wish to be the one holding a frog when those S.O.B.s are looking.


What if I cut off the feet and stuck lizard feet to it instead?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#97 - 2014-11-04 15:46:39 UTC
Kohiko Sun wrote:

Piepie, you are meant to be culturally sensitive to my hot buttons. Of course my buns are big. You are very big and very hungry. If I only had small buns to offer you when you visit, you would not be satisfied, and that would be improper.


Ah, Kohiko, what hot buttons they are too!

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#98 - 2014-11-04 16:00:58 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
There's a hell of a lot that plays off the otherwise unrelated conspiracy theory that he's your tube child genetic donor.


If that one's true, then it raises the worrying implication that genetics play a role in tonsorial and sartorial preference.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#99 - 2014-11-04 16:25:03 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
There's a hell of a lot that plays off the otherwise unrelated conspiracy theory that he's your tube child genetic donor.


If that one's true, then it raises the worrying implication that genetics play a role in tonsorial and sartorial preference.


Can I blame you for the prominence of the nose, Verin?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#100 - 2014-11-04 16:32:53 UTC
There are a lot of noses out there.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders