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Ewar cruiser update
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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-11-02 15:06:18 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Exactly true ^^ Ofc its situational but you're talking about increasing the range of neuts/webs, etc. at which point they **** over brawlers and kiters.

Its exactly the same sort of I Win, **** You problem people have with ECM, there are far too many situations where they'd just be uncounterable.

ok so webs are out...would neut range or amount on the arby and a small point range bonus on the celestis (with the celestis getting a 5% firing bonus for 4 guns) be acceptable?

Probably not. As someone mentioned up there, there is a reason racial and these secondary ewars are differentiated.

Racial ewar have massive ranges and effect everyone equally because they are all (theoretically) counterable by decent piloting. Neuts/Scrams/Webs have their ranges set very specifically because in many situations the moment they're activated the fight is over. They reason you can't tweak away the OPness of your suggestion is not because your maths is bad or reckless, rather any bonus is inherently OP and the reason they're restricted to T2/Faction.

Its the same reason you can't think of the Celestis solely in the context of fleet fights. However dramatically unique the meta around them becomes in the end the thinking always has as its foundation the limitations of a few simple mods, set at specific range, balanced around not being OP in small scale fights.

Which is entirely understandable from a general point of view; It just seems to me that damps are much less effective if the ship doing the damps is a slower cruiser like the Celestis since it centers around keeping range if you're doing targeting range damps. ECM is an entirely different story since whoever has the most mids and jam strength wins, so logically having a cruiser with a lot of mids and a decent buffer for tanking fire during missed jams is sensible.

People fit neuts on the arby almost exclusively, but the powergrid restraints on it prevent most people from fitting a menacing number of mediums with a decent buffer tank. Even if it got a neut amount bonus it wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as the pilgrim, and while it would be a bit stronger I don't see it being game-breaking. The same goes for moving the Celestis towards a more combat-centric role; the notion of ECM being stronger than damps or visa-versa is bogus since at the end of the day what matters in that regard is who lands their disruption first and applies it well in a fight is who wins the ewar game. And frigates tend to have that in most situations as far as I can tell. They just can't tank for sh*t, especially vs drones.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-11-02 15:35:25 UTC
None of that is wrong as far as it goes but in the end what you're suggesting is that a ship than can break 2k cold, have a 20k tank, some DPS and two med neuts with 19km range for 30m. There's nothing about that which is balanced. Sure you can nerf a few things to force it back into a smaller niche but at that point what have you achieved?

The point bonus is less pervasive but always comes with a scram bonus, which isn't really especially with more guns.

Don't disagree some of the ewar cruisers lack a little pep in their step but I guess I do when it comes to the Arbitrator, imo a fix would probably involve bringing the others a bit closer its hybrid goodness.

And burning ECM in a fire, obviously.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#23 - 2014-11-02 17:39:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Scuzzy Logic
As much as I'd like to highlight this with a YES, OH GOD YES, the fact that minmatar would get a missile boat with 20km webs scares the bajeesus out of me...

However, can we all agree that Target Painting bonuses kind of suck?
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#24 - 2014-11-14 11:35:37 UTC
EWAR is a huge force multiplier for small gang warfare. This is why you won't get second bonuses on t1 ships. Hell, I would go as far to say that CCP will probably be putting EWAR in their crosshairs soon enough. After that it will probably get toned down quite a bit. We all know the frustrations of being jammed, or being TD'ed or Sensor damped so hard that you can't get a lock or have every single one of your shots miss. If more people realized just how ridiculous EWAR was, there would be a lot more of them flying around.
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