Intergalactic Summit

Pieter,

You've obviously never tried actually mixing tea and Quafe - Depending on the brand, it can taste fairly nice, and is very soothing for your throat and gut. It was originally a medicinal drink, you know.

While it is true that the largest population centers on the planet are technically under Caldari control, I would remind you that, under the present status quo, that hardly means that what it usually does. The planet is very much in a state of flux, and still recovering economically and socially from the upheaval of Heth's regime and the conflict/massive ecological damage that followed - People are probably wondering more about where they're going to get their next meal then who exactly is ruling over them. Most of it's income is probably coming from outside aid then anything else. And of course, it still has an entirely third-party police force. It remains to be seen what final form it will take when the handover is complete, especially in regard to areas that identify themselves primarily as Gallentean.

In any case, I'm going to be blunt with you: I, personally, find the idea that Caldari Prime not should, but can exist as any other State world does to be extremely unfeasible. The planet is literally right in the middle of Federal space, and will always be exposed to a fantastically greater degree of Gallentean cultural influence then any in the main four districts - It will be cheaper to ship to for the Federation, cheaper to emigrate to for the Federation, and cheaper to develop on for the Federation.

When Gallentean companies are looking to test their products under Caldari market conditions, they will go there first. When Federals are out of work and looking for employment extranationally, they will go there first. When Caldari find they do not fit in with the megacorporate system, they will find it fantastically easy to emigrate away, and fall into the far warmer and conventionally comfortable embrace of the Gallentean lifestyle. And that's not even mentioning the huge amount of Gallenteans who live there already, who rebelled and took control of the planet a couple years ago, the last time the State tried to force them to conform to it's system completely or leave.

You cannot keep the world in a bubble and pretend it lies in the heart of The Forge, as Tibus Heth hoped and failed in doing. If the bubble is too thin, it will pop itself from the cultural osmosis, and if it is too thick, it will make the Federation feel once again that it's peoples well-being is being endangered, and they will pop it themselves. And make no mistake that they are more then capable of doing so - While the State, just barely, held the majority of the planet during the Gallentean assault, orbital superiority will always beat ground superiority in the long, (though bloody) run, and the Caldari Navy is far away, and with several Federal stargates that they can shut down at their discretion between it and the planet.

Caldari Prime is being returned (largely by virtue of the Senates good graces), but unless there is a radical change of national borders, it will always, even under State rule, be subject to it in part. You cannot drop a stone in a pool of water and expect it to not get wet. Rather then fighting this, would it not be better to accept it? To have it serve as a monument to how the two systems and cultures can exist in peace and profit mutually from one another, rather then only ever cause uncomfortable conflict?

I'm aware this is not a popular opinion, but to me, it still seems the most logical. I'm not, as mister Trees'ent is saying, suggesting the Caldari should "share" the planet, but merely to make a few concessions while ruling it.

Also, you make a lot of assumptions with your statement that the megacorporations will soon be building orbitals, as the Federation has so far permitted no such thing. For all the progress that has been miraculously made in the direction of diplomacy over the course of the past year or two, the memory of the State literally holding some of the most populous core federal worlds at effective gunpoint is still extremely fresh in most peoples minds. They will likely not allow any of their warships - Or anything that might be used to build warships - within a thousand astronomical units of the Luminaire system for a very, very long time.

The State will be fortunate if it even gets stargate. Extremely fortunate.

Edit: I should add - Since, uh, I sort of got so carried away writing all that that I sort of let myself forget some of the actual content of your post - That if States system would truly implode simply by being exposed closely to the Federal one, then perhaps something should be done to improve it so this is no longer the case. In addition, the Federation already manages to cope with hundreds of worlds with vastly different legal systems with only a few things in common. I'm sure their people could cope in this instance, as well.

It applies to all orders, Mr. Trees'ent, as in the field you must take decisions fast, there is no time to check if orders are moral or lawful. Let it the tribunal decide.

And if it will be lawful order and the tribunal will decide that you should have followed it and your arrest of superior officer wasn't in the interest of the State, then it is you, who will be executed. By not following the order, you show, that you put your life on the line because of this order.

Of course, provided you want to try to defend your position in the tribunal. If you don't want both to defend yourself in tribunal and to follow the order, you can always just drink your final tea. Or you can use your sword or your sidegun to leave the chain of command permanently, so someone else can take your place.

For there to be no reason I'd have to be devoid of my bitterness.

That will be a cold day in Hell.

-Eran

I see. One must be told what is and isn't moral and isn't capable of making that decision quickly on their own? Your military force doesn't have a secure communications network capable of disseminating secure orders while in combat so each and every command needs to be verified? That sounds completely ridiculous and leaves too much room for a soldier to do as they please during an operation. And if you disagree with an order you must arrest your superior, which takes you and possibly others out of the fight, which puts the entire mission in jeopardy. That is a foolish and undisciplined way to conduct military operations.

You are quick to make conclusions that are completely wrong.
Maybe I shouldn't demand understanding from a civilian.
I don't know what to say now. Probably I could just tell you to try to get courses in SWA.

That IS actually a disobedience, and it WILL have consequences.
For this disobedience they will be put before the firing squad, and by default those, who have arrested the officer for the order will be considered guilty. This means it will be your duty to prove that this order was incorrect.

If that has ruined the mission, you will answer for this as well separately, as by arresting the officer you have claimed the command, and became responsible for the result of the mission.

You should not forget that it will be incredibly hard to prove that your actions were justified, and death by a firing squad is quite dishonorable.

Are you sure you're not a politician? You're avoiding the question like one. I get that there are consequences for disobeying orders if you cannot prove that the order was erroneous. What I'm asking is how disobeying a direct order simply because you don't agree with it not a sign of an undisciplined fighting force?

The original question that brought this up was if you would obey an order to cease hostilities against Gallentean forces. You answered that by telling me
This is a sign of a severe lack of discipline making a military force more of a danger to itself than anyone else regardless of whether there are consequences or not.

No, I am not and you should know it already.
And no, it isn't "sign of a severe lack of discipline".
You must obey and follow all orders as a solider, and disobeying with arresting the officer is extreme scenatio, that means that you can't even live with executing such order, and ready to sacrifice your own life to stand for your point. This is scenario, when the officer would want to commit something atrocious, that would shatter all ideals that your State and you stand for.

You should also be aware, that if other soldiers will consider your act illegal, you will be shot. As in the combat situation the officer can just shoot you, if you don't follow the order. This means you have to arrest the officer before saying you won't do this order. And other officers must be on your side, i.e. illegality of the order must be obvious.

I repeat one more time, if it wasn't obvious yet. This is extreme scenario, that will put you into dishonor and most likely death, if you choose it, and everyone involved would go through the tribunal.
So this isn't freaking "lack of discipline", civilian.

Makoto Priano is a liar, who lost her honor.
Please do not insult us all by calling her Caldari.

You seem to have misunderstood me. I'm saying that the destruction of the Federation isn't something the Caldari State at large is capable of or interested in attempting. Heth's laughable lack of understanding of contemporary geopolitics happened to be one of the many reasons he was extremely unpopular with the State's upper echelons, and one of the reasons the CEP couldn't wait to get rid of him.

Also, your quotes in your post name the wrong people.