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SNI PVE Fit Help

Author
Quinn Cooke
Usque Ad Mortem
#1 - 2014-11-01 13:46:51 UTC
I've switched from my CNR to a (Scorpion Navy) SNI this past week. Doing level 4 missions for Caldari Navy.
The below fit is my current one. It's cap stable and omni tanks well for me. I'm just not seeing the cruise missiles destroy ships as quickly as my CNR would. Any suggestions?

I'm not running with a crystal set. Just hardwired for missiles. I use the painter too.

Does removing (1) of three warhead rigors for something else really impact performance that much? Maybe I'm overtanked for level 4's? Any help appreciated!

Thanks!
High

Arrow6 x Caldari Navy Cruise Launchers
Arrow1 x Drone Link Augmentor II

Mid

Arrow1 x Gist-C Type Large Shield Booster
Arrow2 x Cap Recharger II
Arrow2 x Adaptive Invuln Fields
Arrow1 x Shield Boost Amp II
Arrow1 x Phased Weapon Navigation Array
Arrow1x ECCM - Gravimetric (Used when facing Guristas)

Low

Arrow3 x Ballistic Control II
Arrow1 x Damage Control II
Arrow1 x Power Diagnostic II

Rigs

Arrow2 x Large Warhead Rigor I
Arrow1 x Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Drones

Arrow5 x Hammerhead II
Arrow5 x Hobgoblin II

doesnt play well with others

Firestorm Delta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-11-01 17:20:46 UTC
I'd say drop the omni tank and run specific hardeners for missions. This leaves the last rig slot open so you can fit a flare catalyst. Also trade the Damage control II for a fourth Ballistic Control.

With the target painter you might want to consider dropping one of the rigors for a second flare.

Just my thoughts.
Quinn Cooke
Usque Ad Mortem
#3 - 2014-11-01 18:27:47 UTC
Firestorm Delta wrote:
I'd say drop the omni tank and run specific hardeners for missions. This leaves the last rig slot open so you can fit a flare catalyst. Also trade the Damage control II for a fourth Ballistic Control.

With the target painter you might want to consider dropping one of the rigors for a second flare.

Just my thoughts.


Thanks! Will give it a try and see how it works out.

doesnt play well with others

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2014-11-01 19:30:38 UTC
Quinn Cooke wrote:
I'm just not seeing the cruise missiles destroy ships as quickly as my CNR would. Any suggestions?


so switch back to the CNR. CNR has the damage application bonus, where the SNI has the tank bonus. and IMO at a high level a tank bonus is almost worthless in lv4s.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Jazmyn Stone
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-11-01 23:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jazmyn Stone
Use T2 cruise launchers, the Caldari launchers are bling.

Use fury missiles. As mentioned before, the CNR has more volley damage than the Scorp. (for me, the CNR has 984dps, with 8080 volley, the Scorp does 984 dps, but only with 6060 damage.

Use 2 rigors and I flare ,

Use 4 Caldari BCU's

The ECCM is just not needed, the cap rechargers aren't needed, and the power diag. isn't needed.

And go with a lot of what was said previously.

You can stay with the target painters, and even throw on a webber for any pesky frigs.

You may have seen a lot of people use MJDs, even Afterburners, but they simply aren't needed.

Much more could be said, but I think you get the idea of what to change.


What was your CNR setup?

-Jaz

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#6 - 2014-11-03 05:54:44 UTC
Jazmyn Stone wrote:
Use 2 rigors and I flare ,

3 rigors if you're using T1. 2 rigors and a flare if you're using T2.

T2 rigor > T2 flare, always.
T1 rigor > T1 flare, always.
Voxinian
#7 - 2014-11-03 09:25:14 UTC
A mission setup with omni tank for any mission. Never really compared to a NRI, but I shred through missions pretty quick with this fit.

6x RHML (for L3's and average L4's) Or Cruise launchers

1x Large shield booster
1x invun shield
1x Boost amplifier
2x painters
1x MWD
1x MJD
1x Cap charges or other cap module

1x Damage control
1x CPU enhancer (for the MJD)
3x Balistic system

1x Thermal screen reinforcer
1x Kinetic screen reinforcer
1x EM screen reinforcer

5x Hobgoblin (or add a Gecko)
5x Hammerheads

Crystal implant set (optional)
Voxinian
#8 - 2014-11-03 09:31:41 UTC
Firestorm Delta wrote:
I'd say drop the omni tank and run specific hardeners for missions. This leaves the last rig slot open so you can fit a flare catalyst. Also trade the Damage control II for a fourth Ballistic Control.

I find the 4th balistic control quite ineffective tbh, to much penalty to make it worth it.... unless it's just to fill low slot space.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-11-04 11:50:45 UTC
In general to much tank and in my humble opinion wrong blink.


this is what I use now and then, and will have no problem what so ever with l4 missions


High
6 Cruise missile launcher T2
1 Drone Link Augmentor

Mid

1 CN XL Shield booster
1 Shield booster amplifier T2
1 CN Invulnerability field (T2 works as well)
1 Mission specific Hardener T2
1 Cap booster T2
1 Prop mod (I switch them depending on the missions, Either AB or MJD
2 Republic Target Painters

Low
4 CN BCU's
1 Drone Damage Mod T2

Riggs
2 Large Warhead Rigor T2
1 Large Flare

5 Hobgoblins T2
5 Hammerheads T2

More than enough Tank

Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-11-04 12:17:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kamahl Daikun
As someone who actually flies both of these ships...

Go back to the CNR. The SNI has a pretty steep tank but the CNR simply has the better damage application. There aren't very many missions you need the SNI's tank and the CNR will earn you more isk/hour since it's tearing through missions faster. Only time I fly the SNI is on the few missions with a ton of battleships so I can afk salvage.

Also, never run an omni-tank unless it's necessary. You only need to pump 2-3 different resists per mission. After you run them a while, you'll get a good idea of what damage types to fit for. Google is your friend.

My SNI Fit is something like:

[High Slot]
6x T2 Cruise Missile
1x T1 Salvager

[Mid Slot]
2x Target Painter
3x Passive Shield Hardener
1x T2 Adaptive Invuln
1x Sensor Booster / 1x Shield Boost Amp / 1x MJD
1x T2 Medium Shield Booster

[Low Slot]
4x T2 BCU
1x T2 DCU

[Rigs]
3x Rigors (?)

Always kept Mobile Depot and MTU on me. Drones for frigs, cruise for everything else. With the resists, the medium booster can be left running almost permanently and negates almost all of the incoming damage.
Voxinian
#11 - 2014-11-04 12:43:20 UTC
Kamahl Daikun wrote:



Also, never run an omni-tank unless it's necessary. You only need to pump 2-3 different resists per mission. After you run them a while, you'll get a good idea of what damage types to fit for. Google is your friend.



By the time you are back in the station hangar changing your resists and what not I am already doing an other mission with my omni fit that never needs to be changed, just refil ammo and go.
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-11-04 14:39:21 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Kamahl Daikun wrote:



Also, never run an omni-tank unless it's necessary. You only need to pump 2-3 different resists per mission. After you run them a while, you'll get a good idea of what damage types to fit for. Google is your friend.



By the time you are back in the station hangar changing your resists and what not I am already doing an other mission with my omni fit that never needs to be changed, just refil ammo and go.


I'm having a hard time understanding this.

I'm not even sure how you're giving off the min-max attitude when you're omni-tanked against 2-3 damage types. You're wasting slots that could be better used for projection, utility, or mobility. Not even that, I mentioned a Mobile Depot in my post.

So, really, what's worse - Wasting slots or waiting 60s to refit?

The answer is knowing the mission beforehand. Personally, I keep the mobile depot on me if I want to MJD and snipe everything.
Voxinian
#13 - 2014-11-04 15:18:51 UTC
My point is that refitting for specific missions is not needed (besides ammo) with an omni resistance unless you have really low skills. Specially with a NSI where you can have plenty of active tank on top of the omni resist and then still have midslots left for MWD, painters etc.
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-11-04 16:48:58 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
My point is that refitting for specific missions is not needed (besides ammo) with an omni resistance unless you have really low skills. Specially with a NSI where you can have plenty of active tank on top of the omni resist and then still have midslots left for MWD, painters etc.


I'm just going to assume the fit you posted above is what you're referring to.

In which case, your "omni-resist" is effectively a single Adaptive Invuln. Sure, you may have decent tank but 0 damage application. 2 TPs is nice but with 0 rigors, you're clearing even slower than I am. You also wasted slots on MJD + MWD. You only need one or the other, plus the cap recharger, plus the CPU low mod.

There's a reason you fit a LSB while I fit a MSB - I don't need that much shield boosting. The fit I posted not only gives you enough tank but also offers damage application (Rigors + TPs). You can even leave the MSB running through the entire mission and come out just fine.

I'm not saying your fit is bad, however, my fit doesn't have to sacrifice rigs or mid/lows on fitting mods to achieve the same amount of tank as yours with better damage application.
Firestorm Delta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-11-04 20:22:48 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Firestorm Delta wrote:
I'd say drop the omni tank and run specific hardeners for missions. This leaves the last rig slot open so you can fit a flare catalyst. Also trade the Damage control II for a fourth Ballistic Control.

I find the 4th balistic control quite ineffective tbh, to much penalty to make it worth it.... unless it's just to fill low slot space.


There really is no need for anything in the lows but Ballistic Controls. I suggest four because the bonus you get from that 4th is still helpful, a 5th would just be a waste of fitting if you have that slot.

Also since you have to usually return to the station to pick up a mission there is no reason you can't take ten seconds to swap a couple hardeners around, grab the right ammo, and be on your way. Omni tanking and running dual prop mods when only one is ever needed for a mission strikes me as a massive waste of time since you force yourself to be less effective in the mission.

All the modules I will ever fit on my mission boat are in a single container, I just pop it and the fitting window open and have them swapped out and ready to go in less than a minute. It honestly takes me longer to swap out for the right ammo for the mission.

At the end of the day a basic Omni tank set up can work just fine, but it is lazy and overall less effective and does not help reinforce good fitting practices. You may not need that practice, but there are plenty of people in EVE that do.
Voxinian
#16 - 2014-11-05 12:28:51 UTC
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Voxinian wrote:
My point is that refitting for specific missions is not needed (besides ammo) with an omni resistance unless you have really low skills. Specially with a NSI where you can have plenty of active tank on top of the omni resist and then still have midslots left for MWD, painters etc.


I'm just going to assume the fit you posted above is what you're referring to.

In which case, your "omni-resist" is effectively a single Adaptive Invuln. Sure, you may have decent tank but 0 damage application. 2 TPs is nice but with 0 rigors, you're clearing even slower than I am. You also wasted slots on MJD + MWD. You only need one or the other, plus the cap recharger, plus the CPU low mod.

There's a reason you fit a LSB while I fit a MSB - I don't need that much shield boosting. The fit I posted not only gives you enough tank but also offers damage application (Rigors + TPs). You can even leave the MSB running through the entire mission and come out just fine.

I'm not saying your fit is bad, however, my fit doesn't have to sacrifice rigs or mid/lows on fitting mods to achieve the same amount of tank as yours with better damage application.


My example fit is definitely a lazy mans fit, hence the omni resist. Having both a MJD and a MWD fitted is quite handy actually and speeds things up in a lot of missions. Again, I could setup a fit specific for every mission, but that fit is capable to do any missions so why change it. Changing the fit everytime so you might finish a mission 2 minutes faster is neglectable and in the long run does not really matter. My fit does have more tank then yours btw, though it's only really needed for missions like Worlds Collide where you have a lot of incomming dps.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#17 - 2014-11-05 17:39:44 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Firestorm Delta wrote:
I'd say drop the omni tank and run specific hardeners for missions. This leaves the last rig slot open so you can fit a flare catalyst. Also trade the Damage control II for a fourth Ballistic Control.

I find the 4th balistic control quite ineffective tbh, to much penalty to make it worth it.... unless it's just to fill low slot space.


welcome to pve fits, where we have so many slots we don't even know what to do with them other than 4th and 5th stacking penalized modules.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#18 - 2014-11-05 18:02:33 UTC
I cba to argue the specifics of each of your fits, but my tank is a Booster, 2x invluns, and a cap injector for almost every ship. Leaves plenty of room for damage mods, application mods, prop mods, and sometimes more. Note that the navy scorp gets a damage resistance bonus on top of all that (also feel free to note I called that a useless bonus earlier).

resist rigs, just no (well maybe if you are flying a pirate BS that is also used for incursions)

Specific hardeners are a good idea while learning, but at some point they just become an annoyance. If you are going to use 2 invluns and 3 individual hardeners to have an "omni tank" then yes dropping to 3 specific hardeners is a good move. but when you can run everything with 2 invluns why bother swapping hardeners out.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Voxinian
#19 - 2014-11-06 14:34:11 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

resist rigs, just no (well maybe if you are flying a pirate BS that is also used for incursions)


It's purely choice and personal prefference. I personally like to have almost full omni rsesist with the rigs, just needs 1 invul shield to set all resist to +70%, leaving me with 7 more mid slots to do whatever with... which is speed/travel mods, painters and active tank in my case. If you are heavy focussed on the DPS thing then you obviously want to use other rigs... though the difference is not huge when you also use painters.
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-11-06 17:52:57 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

resist rigs, just no (well maybe if you are flying a pirate BS that is also used for incursions)


It's purely choice and personal prefference. I personally like to have almost full omni rsesist with the rigs, just needs 1 invul shield to set all resist to +70%, leaving me with 7 more mid slots to do whatever with... which is speed/travel mods, painters and active tank in my case. If you are heavy focussed on the DPS thing then you obviously want to use other rigs... though the difference is not huge when you also use painters.


Uhhhh....

The RNI can probably get away without using Rigors/Flares and still apply good DPS. The SNI has no inherent scaling, so you're only hurting yourself in that aspect.
Then again, if you're heavily focused on DPS, you're probably not using the SNI. For missioning, there's no real reason to use the SNI over the RNI. The SNI has tank that's really not necessary for Lvl 4's and no bonus to application.

Besides, let's say you're running Blockade, which would you rather do, MJD to safety or face-tank the next 8 waves?
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