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Brain-in-a-box status

First post First post
Author
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-10-31 22:15:18 UTC
I'll see if I understand what it is that BiAB is suppose to do or I imagine that it will do.

I'll do it with a picture.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-10-31 22:36:11 UTC
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#43 - 2014-10-31 23:23:23 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:


In conclusion:
Stuff is happening. It's happening slowly and painfully but it's happening. I have my personal dreams as to when this could reasonably be expected to be finished, but I intend to keep them to myselves. It's important to have dreams and aspirations and you can't have mine.



You have to dream a dream to have a dream come true.

Fight the good fight

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-10-31 23:47:34 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
This is because as it stands your skills are items. When you inject skillbooks into your head, that's exactly what you're doing: Changing the location of the skillbook item to be your character.

Mmmh... so the stories about once being able to use dark snake charming arts to inject items other than skillbooks into your head were probably true.

.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#45 - 2014-11-01 00:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Andy Koraka wrote:
So serious question. We're all aware of how whenever 100+ pilots undock or jump through a gate, or otherwise undergo a session change the node gets bogged down and enters deep tidi (hence the need for BIAB in the first place). Will you guys be adjusting the node mapping to compensate?

A while back CCP changed the node mapping so that local space is generally on the same node, thus a fight in Delve wouldn't cause ti-di in Tenal or elsewhere spread across EvE.
.


you assume that the skills are not recomputed when you jump between systems on the same node... (which is very reasonable). But it isn't the case. It is actually faster when two connected systems are on two different nodes. Since this literally splits the workload of a jump to two distinct servers. Its the only parallelism they have. There was a quite long devblog about system mapping around 6month ago or so. I was a bit sad as i read that :(

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Sales Alt negrodamus
SalesAltCorp
#46 - 2014-11-01 01:31:04 UTC
PrismX, very nice work. I do similar work so I understand and appreciate the lunacy :D

Now at the risk of invoking the wrath of the parallelization gods, I gots a question that is probably ideally suited to you:

Given how the BIAB stuff is going to take a load of computation off a given node and put it elsewhere, would it be possible / technically feasible to setup an environment where a given solar system is effectively hosted on multiple nodes?

Even better, can we get dynamic node remapping?

You talking about a C rewrite makes me hopeful.
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2014-11-01 01:40:33 UTC
Andy Koraka wrote:
So serious question. We're all aware of how whenever 100+ pilots undock or jump through a gate, or otherwise undergo a session change the node gets bogged down and enters deep tidi (hence the need for BIAB in the first place). Will you guys be adjusting the node mapping to compensate?

A while back CCP changed the node mapping so that local space is generally on the same node, thus a fight in Delve wouldn't cause ti-di in Tenal or elsewhere spread across EvE.

Pre-Pheobe it wasn't really a big deal since most fleet travel was direct to the destination via jump drive/titan bridge, but Post-Pheobe fleets are expected to rely on taking gates the current mapping scheme is problematic.
...


I don't think that we will need to do (significant) changes to node mapping due to BIAB - but the load in many systems should be lower (we could increase the number of systems per node - but I don't think that we will do this). With BIAB it might be better to jump between systems on the same node compared to systems on different nodes - but it is a bit too early to tell as I don't have any numbers yet for this. Several years in the past we thought that it would be beneficial for server load to have neighboring systems on the same node - but mass tests (and reports from TQ) proofed this to be wrong.

For the jump changes with Phoebe: I can imagine, that we might see a few more small lag spikes for moving capitals, but time will tell how capitals are moving exactly after these changes. I don't think that it will be necessary to change the node mapping for this - but we will for sure monitor how the server is doing and take action if really necessary.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#48 - 2014-11-01 01:46:20 UTC
If you took a step back, cleared the board and did an EVE 2.0, how would you do things differently?
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#49 - 2014-11-01 01:57:57 UTC
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:
PrismX, very nice work. I do similar work so I understand and appreciate the lunacy :D

Now at the risk of invoking the wrath of the parallelization gods, I gots a question that is probably ideally suited to you:

Given how the BIAB stuff is going to take a load of computation off a given node and put it elsewhere, would it be possible / technically feasible to setup an environment where a given solar system is effectively hosted on multiple nodes?

Even better, can we get dynamic node remapping?

You talking about a C rewrite makes me hopeful.


I'm trying to answer, as I am already active here in the forums:

As far as I can tell as non-programmer BIAB will not make it easier to host a given solar system on multiple nodes. We are trying to move as much load as possible from the system nodes to other nodes to reduce the need for splitting systems themselves (which would be a massive undertaking).

Dynamic node remapping: I would love it, but there is still a long way to go. BIAB might even help a tiny bit with this, but there is still a LOT to be done (and many other things are more important).

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#50 - 2014-11-01 03:25:06 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
... a given solar system ...
No.

I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing.


There is only one solar system in the whole universe.

There is no solar system in the EVE universe.

Sol is the name of our star.
Sun is the more commonly used name for this star.



They're star systems, not solar systems.


Can you fix this?

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#51 - 2014-11-01 07:38:21 UTC
Awesome stuff, CCPs Prizm X, Habakuk & Hedgehog!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-11-01 08:13:19 UTC
Sol Project wrote:
CCP Habakuk wrote:
... a given solar system ...
No.

I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing.


There is only one solar system in the whole universe.

There is no solar system in the EVE universe.

Sol is the name of our star.
Sun is the more commonly used name for this star.



They're star systems, not solar systems.


Can you fix this?



And how do you know that all starts are not known as sun as the generic name of the astronomical entity in the eve universe? Remember... they have only LEGENDS about Terra.

also.. no one cares...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#53 - 2014-11-01 11:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
Go devs!

Thanks for posting war stories, hopefully neither python nor other black magic can stop you from finishing and releasing BiaB in some near-ish future (measured rather in years then decades).

But that fragment about skills being items in our head "inventory" is kind of WTF case. Wouldn't it be just easier and simpler to have it coded as most primitive list/table where each skill is at specified index and number stored at that index is current trained level of that skill? After all everybody can eventually train every skill so WTF complicate things by making this whole inventory in my head voodoo. Actually that would make sense if I could eject trained skill from my head and make an implant out of it or sth that could be traded and used by somebody else but that's not possible so really, WhoTF thought it was a good idea? Hilmar? :)

Invalid signature format

Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-11-01 12:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsa Nietchize
How I read the OP

Quote:
We are working on a hard problem to make things better. We've developing iteratively as we want to explore all possible solutions to find the best one. Progress is slow but is steady. The barrier to entry on this problem is large and personal changes lead to delays as new members must ramp up on extensive an knowledge base. Further, as the problem is a core problem, it has many inter-connected parts which lead to us not being able to solve this problem in singularity. Rather, we must solve this problem and any new problems that arise with the interconnected components.
We have hypotheses out the outcomes of our progress but are committed to thorough testing to ensure our positive outcomes are realized.


You're doing God's work. Keep fighting the good fight.
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2014-11-01 12:55:14 UTC
k
Abramul
Canadian Forces Corp
United 4 Nations
#56 - 2014-11-01 14:10:29 UTC
Sol Project wrote:
CCP Habakuk wrote:
... a given solar system ...
No.

I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing.


There is only one solar system in the whole universe.

There is no solar system in the EVE universe.

Sol is the name of our star.
Sun is the more commonly used name for this star.



They're star systems, not solar systems.


Can you fix this?

I never noticed this. Now it's probably going to bother me every time I check which system I'm in...
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#57 - 2014-11-01 14:29:26 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
And how do you know that all starts are not known as sun as the generic name of the astronomical entity in the eve universe? Remember... they have only LEGENDS about Terra.

also.. no one cares...
Well, then stay true to your words and stay silent. As you wish to display that you do not care, I will happily dismiss your nonsense.

You're welcome.

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!

Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#58 - 2014-11-01 14:32:32 UTC
Abramul wrote:
I never noticed this. Now it's probably going to bother me every time I check which system I'm in...
Good. It's sad that they actually make the issue worse, supporting the cluelessness of the masses.


Did you know that most people don't feel their tongues all the time? It's the same with the nose. Although they're both there, ALL THE TIME, people often aren't aware of them until they check.

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#59 - 2014-11-01 20:08:46 UTC
Sol Project wrote:
CCP Habakuk wrote:
... a given solar system ...
No.

I don't know why it's wrong in-game, but maybe someone simply didn't know better and through the fact that the public gets this wrong easily, nobody cared about even noticing.


There is only one solar system in the whole universe.

There is no solar system in the EVE universe.

Sol is the name of our star.
Sun is the more commonly used name for this star.



They're star systems, not solar systems.


Can you fix this?


Actually a star system is a system composed by several stars orbiting each other. The planets and other bodies (comets, asteroids, planetesimals, et cetera) orbiting a star (be it a single star or a part of a star system) are known as a planetary system.

As EVE does not have lone stars nor star systems, I guess we could just agree to talk about "systems".

(To make things more complicated, Sol System is the name of the data synchronization core behind Tranquility cluster, and whose 1 hertz ticks are so intrinsecal to EVE)
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#60 - 2014-11-01 20:17:04 UTC
I accept "systems" as well, because it's still *right*.

But the system of Sol is ... not actually in New Eden. I would accept it if they renamed every star to Sol, too. Then we have 7000+ solar systems in honour of the real one. Or just the one of Hek. That'd be neat. Has only three letters too!

Oh and yeah, I know Sol. My main machine at home has the same name. ;)

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!