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Dev blog: CSM9 Summer Summit Minutes!

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Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#81 - 2014-10-31 02:42:48 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
[quote=Dwissi]
Actually, we have been asking in public. The discussions with people tend to be in private, due to opsec, but the asking was public.


Is there any one in particular that an evemail can be sent to then with such information? "opsec" is one of those issues that's kept me from being completely open about issues like this.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#82 - 2014-10-31 03:11:13 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
[quote=Dwissi]
Actually, we have been asking in public. The discussions with people tend to be in private, due to opsec, but the asking was public.


Is there any one in particular that an evemail can be sent to then with such information? "opsec" is one of those issues that's kept me from being completely open about issues like this.



Pick a CSM member that you think you can trust enough Smile

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#83 - 2014-10-31 04:19:13 UTC
Dwissi wrote:

Well - the asking being public isnt really helpful. Its the results of discussions or the discussions themselves that matter. And i simply dont see the 'opsec' part you state. No need to state systems and/or positions or details that might give too much away. Things can easily be 'generalized' for bullet points - but not knowing who delivers that input in the end makes it not very representative.


We're not done. For weeks we've been asking and poking for info from people. We hit twitter during the session when we were given permission to start the project. Corbexx, not surprisingly, has gotten the most feedback. Then it is gathering it up. Hes made a nice form and shared it. Then its just inputting it. I will probably place a summary mine on my blog for those interested as I often do. But that depends on the people as well. Some people are very private about what they do. They will talk to us but they don't want people to know that they live in X area and do Y things. If someone asks me not to share beyond CCP what they have shared with me, I will not.

All it is, is questions such as: What does your POS mean to you? What do you do in it? What do force fields mean to you? How would you define your POS to someone? Why do you have a POS? What do you want from them?

The goal is that a POS that appears to be mining a moon mineral might be seen as a moon mining op or maybe a reaction POS. It may turn out that the person also researches there and houses their super carrier there. They may see it as their super POS but they run the moon to help pay for fuel. CCP's metrics will not see all of that but they would like to. Therefore, some of us are asking and gathering it up and making a big list that just says things that people use their POS for and see it as, for CCP to read and use to understand what players are doing and using their POS for.

Because we have spoken to CCP we can process and present the information fairly clearly. That's it.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#84 - 2014-10-31 04:20:05 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:

Is there any one in particular that an evemail can be sent to then with such information? "opsec" is one of those issues that's kept me from being completely open about issues like this.


Pick a CSM member that you are comfortable speaking with. Big smile

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Sarah Harpoon
Lootbox Kaboom Inc
#85 - 2014-10-31 06:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Harpoon
it's funny how you mention wardecs as an alternative to awoxing, when all that turns into is station games

you also suggest suicide ganking as a better way to assassinate someone - as if that's more easy for a newbie to understand?

help ccp i'm confused
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#86 - 2014-10-31 08:24:16 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Dwissi wrote:

Well - the asking being public isnt really helpful. Its the results of discussions or the discussions themselves that matter. And i simply dont see the 'opsec' part you state. No need to state systems and/or positions or details that might give too much away. Things can easily be 'generalized' for bullet points - but not knowing who delivers that input in the end makes it not very representative.


We're not done. For weeks we've been asking and poking for info from people. We hit twitter during the session when we were given permission to start the project. Corbexx, not surprisingly, has gotten the most feedback. Then it is gathering it up. Hes made a nice form and shared it. Then its just inputting it. I will probably place a summary mine on my blog for those interested as I often do. But that depends on the people as well. Some people are very private about what they do. They will talk to us but they don't want people to know that they live in X area and do Y things. If someone asks me not to share beyond CCP what they have shared with me, I will not.

All it is, is questions such as: What does your POS mean to you? What do you do in it? What do force fields mean to you? How would you define your POS to someone? Why do you have a POS? What do you want from them?

The goal is that a POS that appears to be mining a moon mineral might be seen as a moon mining op or maybe a reaction POS. It may turn out that the person also researches there and houses their super carrier there. They may see it as their super POS but they run the moon to help pay for fuel. CCP's metrics will not see all of that but they would like to. Therefore, some of us are asking and gathering it up and making a big list that just says things that people use their POS for and see it as, for CCP to read and use to understand what players are doing and using their POS for.

Because we have spoken to CCP we can process and present the information fairly clearly. That's it.



Awsome - thats the answer that is very helpful! Thank you for taking your time to clarify this

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty
Erin Crawford
#87 - 2014-10-31 10:23:37 UTC
pg 44:

Quote:
At this point Corbexx asked if it would be possible to give more people access to Jessica – CCP’s engine for making cinema tics and used in the likes of Clear Skies 3. CCP Falcon and CCP Dhalgren confirmed that this is something they will look into further as the potential benefits could be huge.


This would be mind-boggling awesome!!!
I'm sure there are many that would love to make custom scenes and visuals, both static images and movies using Jessica.

In fact one of the reasons why I became interested in EVE was that i saw some artwork others have done using the bare-bone-basics and having to hack together using photoshop and 3rd-party app that extract, convert models and textures so they can create EVE scenes - and they never look as good or as authentic.

Having access to Jessica would allow for incredible EVE-related artwork to be created - this in itself will both directly and indirectly market EVE even more...

Imagine the type of high quality Corp Recruitment Ads that could be created using these tools! In fact, player-made story lines of events that have occurred in game could be re-created, animated and turned into visually stunning movies - control the cameras, flight-paths, explosions, etc... The opportunity for player-generated visuals, both still and movies, would be amazing.

Please, make it happen!
Big smile



"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2014-10-31 11:39:07 UTC
pretty much player-generated advertising, that everyone would enjoy.

fwiw, +1

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#89 - 2014-11-01 04:52:26 UTC
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The meetings. oh god the meetings.

I want a 'I survived the CSM 9 summer summit' tshirt.


Trust when I say Winter is worse. Especially in Iceland. You'll come to miss daylight.

I'm not that bad. Just take off the blindfold!

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#90 - 2014-11-01 16:52:59 UTC
I didn't think you (CCP) had the balls to consider removing 'Sov' but I'm pleased to be proved wrong.

In my opinion, the worst change to the game came just shy of 10 years ago (24/11/2004 to be specific), with the introduction of the artificial 'sovereignty' mechanics. Every change since then has just iterated downwards.

Burn it all to the ground, if people want a silly no-benefits 'flag', good for them... but, going down this route this could be the best [potential] change to have occurred in the game.

... just don't screw it up! P

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#91 - 2014-11-01 17:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Access to "Jessica" would be awesome.


You don't want unfettered access to Jessica as it is now. Think of it like a combination of a Python shell and raw access to the internal Trinity graphics engine scene graph, down to the tiniest internal detail, plus a huge menu of every random Python script that anyone from the beginning of EVE ever thought might be a good idea.

Unlike a tool like the Starcraft 2 level editor (which is available to players and really awesome, by the way) Jessica exposes details almost all the way down to the metal on the graphics system that you'd never want to see as a player.

Turning Jessica into something suitable for what the community would like to use it for, or making a new tool for that purpose, is all possible, but it would be a major project.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Flamespar
WarRavens
#92 - 2014-11-02 09:07:58 UTC
Would "being in risk taking mode" include opening a particular door?

Also modular POS with explorable interiors would be amazing.

I want my space bar at the edge of the universe.

Also please add towels and toothbrush to the NeX store
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#93 - 2014-11-02 23:24:03 UTC
GJ everyone involved!

I'm extremely happy about the vision for future starbases, it is exactly what I personally hope the starbases will on day be. Castles among the stars. Customisable cities both for micro corps and megacoalitions, together with custom ship skins are features that may appear superficial at first glance, but will create a much stronger emotional connection between the players and New Eden. This kind of personal dimension is exactly what game needs to reach new levels.

There was lots of other good stuff too, along with the abovementioned I got the feeling that CCP has rebuilt the temporarily lost confidence. New release model works incredibly well, and Phoebe shows that the time of bold changes and actual expansions is here :)

Keep up the good work!
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2014-11-03 02:49:10 UTC
Jessica sounds like aNightmare to use but since we dropped the expansion videos, have a usable interface for customers to use would make sense. You have basically a program that reached is basic life expectancy now your remonatized it as a customer generated ad content machine. Boom. Customers are happy they can create videos outlining their love for this game and CCP has a cheap source of ad revenue.

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#95 - 2014-11-03 07:54:26 UTC
Quote:
CCP Greyscale (about starbases)
-
Inspirational
-
They need to look fuc*** awesome, and people need to want them and
want to be around them and have
them and use them and like them and want them and stuff.

I love you man. Anything that won't look like stick with bubble or cheap russian MIR. I just need to figure why i would need that thing.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#96 - 2014-11-03 10:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dwissi
Finally through with the entire thing - what a read.

Many fantastic things in there - good job CSM 9.

2 things i am still concerned about:

The trend to make low sec a pure roaming and pve farming area is kind of scary to me actually. I had hoped for some more activity for making low a habitable area again. It used to be a great 'training&staging' area for corporations and alliances as a first step before trying to go to null sec. Starting to get established away from major market hubs, developing your own market etc - all that is completely missing in there.

POS discussion. An open forum about it would be great. Right now many dont even consider putting any up - so these people will not be included in the POS discussion because the statement says 'collect from people how they use them right now'. Reasons for not having one are plentiful - its too complicated, not cost effective enough .... - you extend that list as you want. But any future changes should really include the people who are not running them right now and not just the ones who do. Especially with the stated possible changes to null sec a large group of players should be involved to avoid another cascade fail for null. POS have a much larger meaning for smaller entities who are not as much represented in null discussions as they didnt have a chance to go there on their own yet. A POS is always a mid-step in between no docking and a full blown station - it seems to be forgotten really in the entire discussion about them right now.

Edit: making a POS a single-player owned structure was one of the worst things that has been mentioned in there

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2014-11-03 10:35:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcos Vandymion
Above discussion about a messy to use tool not open for everyone to play with right now becomes rather amusing if "Da Tweekaz & In-Phase - Bad Habit" is playing while one skims through it.


Back on topic: so basically what you're telling us is "we couldn't possibly release it as is because we'd be ashamed of ourselves" ? ^^ Because, judging by the effort the community has and does invest into their favourite game, I bet there are quite a few that would come through with a new video even if it's nearly unusable.


Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Quote:
CCP Greyscale (about starbases)
-
Inspirational
-
They need to look fuc*** awesome, and people need to want them and
want to be around them and have
them and use them and like them and want them and stuff.

I love you man. Anything that won't look like stick with bubble or cheap russian MIR. I just need to figure why i would need that thing.


I'd love to see the TEC Argonev-class Starbase as some sort of Caldari Navy Stronghold. It certainly looks, though more plain, better than 4-4. Then one thinks about IP shenanigans that that would cause and hope is crushed under the iron heel of banhammer wielding legalese adjutants.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#98 - 2014-11-03 12:30:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
Quote:
Steve - is there any way to make mining more exciting
CCP Fozzie/Petur - we'd love to make this way more sci-fi and procedurally generated. Changes have been made. we have to wait for that to settle down, but there is more we can do.


I'm sorry but exactly what changes have been made to make mining more exciting?

Since Steve was kind enough to reply to my tweet with this question:

Steve wrote:
@SchmataB umm. There have been barge changes recently?


I would like to ask devs follow up question:

Why do you ignore basic way of gathering resources in your plans of revamping UI and mechanics? Why there is no discussion/feedback thread posted by Fozzie/Rise/Funny French Guy asking players about their vision of mining gameplay? And I don't mean new stats on ships and modules I mean really mining, the very process of extracting ore from rocks? Why does it have to be crippled abomination that nobody wants to touch with 10 feet pole? Isn't there anything that could put little live into it? Something that could actually be interesting as a process and have rewards for attentive and organized and social people not on meta level but right there in-game?

I know that with 3+ accounts and maxed skills laser cycles are pretty short and ore holds are getting full very fast but not everybody can afford multiple accounts. Sure, you can chat or talk on comms but that doesn't solve the issue with part of game being not engaging.

Invalid signature format
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#99 - 2014-11-03 16:00:54 UTC
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Jessica sounds like aNightmare to use but since we dropped the expansion videos, have a usable interface for customers to use would make sense. You have basically a program that reached is basic life expectancy now your remonatized it as a customer generated ad content machine. Boom. Customers are happy they can create videos outlining their love for this game and CCP has a cheap source of ad revenue.


A little explanation on why I said this would be a major project:

You're asking for an animation authoring tool, and Jessica is not designed to serve that purpose. It's for making EVE graphics assets. It just happens to provide a somewhat clunky way to do part, not all, of the animation authoring process for our cinematics team. Because of this, a player-suitable tool for authoring animations would require significant reworking.

By the way, we still have a cinematics team and they're still working on trailers. Our release cadence change means they may not be tied to an expansion release, but in the future there will still be EVE trailers. Which makes me happy.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Erin Crawford
#100 - 2014-11-03 18:25:34 UTC
I was hoping to have something that allows one to use and create imagery with the EVE assets using it's rendering engine for authenticity purposes - using anything else always looks hacked.

Heck, I would be overjoyed at simply being able to tinker around until I would finally figure out how to create a scene for a still image - forget animation and movies, just creating some still images would be amazing.

It's a pity, but understandable.
Thanks anyways.

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "