Player Features and Ideas Discussion

- Armour AB gangs (the Deimos is actually competitive at this now post-buff, FYI)
- Mobile shield gangs
- General nanoship use (Vagabond and Ishtar standing out in particular for this, and believe it or not you can even get a decent fit out of the Deimos for it.)
- Solo/small gang with active tanks (Deimos and Sacrilege being rather good at this)


Apples and oranges. Nanocanes fight better close up but Vagabonds are much, much harder to catch in the first place going a full KM/s faster than the Hurricane and with better agility and falloff.

The only thing HACs have actually lost thanks to the tier 3 BCs is their position as a more mobile sniper, but sniper HACs fell largely out of use well before those were implemented.

Every HAC does something better than the equivilent BC, besides the Eagle.

The only ones that need some love are:
Sacrilege (needs a low, but not broken to be honest)
Eagle (utterly broken)
Muninn (was perfectly usable, but now it's obsolete)

And to list off the general advantages of a HAC over a BC:
- Speed
- Agility
- Range
- Scan resolution

one can't just provide the ability to "ignore" scramblers...you're breaking mechanics, i think all the hac's seem to be in fine working order.
These are SPECIALIZED CRUISERS, T2 can be better than faction, but you need to be a big chief. not a big chief you need to work harder.

I personally don't see any changes to implement, especially one as generic and short sighted as making them imune to warp scrambelers. good day

This.
At the very least the Drake and Hurricane need a nerf.

Agreed.

can we give the Ishtar 100% resists to everything? I think that would balance out the playing field a bit

You're both right and wrong - yet more importantly - you are onto something very interesting.

In regard to Sniper HAC's, you're wrong. The new tier 3 BC are not only as mobile and as tanky with similar reach and tracking, they also do more than twice the DPS for only a partial drawback in lock-time at a quarter of the price.

In regard to the rest you are quite on key, and you bring up some examples of what i hinted about in my post above when i was saying i was largely content with the actual performance balance prior to the introduction of tier 3 BC.

Now, i don't want to belittle anyone but we need to put it in a related terminology - and this is where it get interesting, so alllow me some slack with the crude examples for sake of clarity. The way "Darkside Drakes" came to popularity reminisce of the general organisation philosophy of Goonswarm. Combine retainers with peasants or shepards with sheep (and then grow size of patty or flock). You mention Nano HAC and overall their balance to BC is quite alright. I wouldn't go as far as to call them better, but they have features you can use to your advantage.

What presents issues for the HAC's isn't the Drakes either (so from a pure balance perspective it's not relatively overpowered), it's rather the supporting scaffold of Logi and Recon and what the decent organisation of numbers do when the BC's volume will push the HAC's off grid. The problem is that with the other important relative, the ISK-risk relative, a risk-free meaningless PvP will always feed the numerical advantage.

It may seem harsh, but forcing the individual player into a bounce-back downtime will limit the effect and potency of numbers. That larger will always have more and more will always be better is a fair aspect of an MMO, but just as how this is natural the natural "cumber of number" must also be in effect. This has been discussed over and over in other topics (such as cynos and jump-networks).

Changes to meaningless PvP will not remove numerical advantage but it will contain it to tolerable levels (it doesn't need crutches) and see trend that allow more emergent PvP. You would hope CCP had realized by now that feeding the unwilling do not lead to emergent gameplay, wether we talk about PvP-participation, PvE, living in nullsec or something else. It leads to facade involvement which is not fun for anyone and errupts into stalemate.

It's gotten to a point where you'd only gank the support and disengage on many occassions because the BC are not even worth killing - or at the very least - the BC are not worth the prolonged and reciprocal risk of trying to kill.

You could see similar issues with the Armor HAC's, but they didn't really occur until you hit larger fleet sizes at the time when almost anything was simply countered with "more Drakes". Some trends have changed in that regard, but it's still festering. The Drake is a very good ship, but it's not really it's fault either.

The whole thing lead to pointless fights, boring for everyone - until someone horns together the supercapital blob to threaten infrastructure, then the PvP cease being relatively risk-free.

You are clearly too stupid to fly HACs. Best to stick to your BCs, since that is all you seem to understand. They are the Troglodyte's tool of choice after all.

Hehe, yeah, sure nothing to answer. Who doubts...

2.7km/s.


Because there's not much PVP you can do in a pod.

You actually make yourself look more ignorant with every single post, I'm impressed.