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Intergalactic Summit

 
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First Arek'Jaalan Symposium : Restructuring & Leadership - YC116-YC117

Author
Joe Themachine
Sleeper Tech. Research Foundation
#121 - 2014-10-31 23:11:40 UTC
Today is the last day that this part of the symposium will be live. I will take 24-48 hours (starting tomorrow) to parse, compile, and outline all relevant proposals emanating from this forum, and begin the second part of the symposium which will be a voting call on the proposals outlined here.

This will be the last chance (for now) to comment in the structure of AJ.

Speak now or (for a while) hold your peace.
Mu'adib Atreides
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-10-31 23:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mu'adib Atreides
I like Gehen Sealbreaker's proposal with one additional proposal, to have an Inspector General's office which is independent of the leadership, scientific, and administrative body in addition to the ethics committee. I think the ethics committee needs to focus on ensuring all is well internally and on a day to day basis, while the inspector general's office certifies major decisions, runs elections, and organizes forum discussions and symposiums just like this one.

Basically someone to expand on Joe Themachine's current temporary assignment and on a permanent basis. The inspector general's mandate would be to:

-Schedule, organize, and certify officer elections (if any)
-Run forums and discussions in a fair and equitable manner (and without interfering in the content of those forums)
-Be a neutral party, when called upon, to resolve disputes.
-audit material, financial, and resource usage to ensure donations are used for the purpose to which they are assigned.
-Investigate issues, misappropriations, misuse, and corruption.

And other responsibilities as mandated.

Instead of calling it this person an Inspector General I believe we should call him "Superior Agent of the Council"
Drake Arson
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#123 - 2014-11-01 00:08:46 UTC
Greetings 'Capsuleers'

It has been a very long time since we have had the chance to reach out to anyone. With that being said, It is good to be back and we are officially announcing a return to activities.

When AJ was first created, I was put in as the Lead for AJ:SEC. While I admit it had a bit of a rocky start, we where able to create a stable environment for multiple different factions, including sworn enemies, were able to work together in harmony.

I am pleased to announce that I wish to resume said role as Lead of AJ:SEC and look forward to working with the others in what, we believe, a great step forward in continued cooperation. Something AJ has always strived for, many people from all works of life under one (If temporary) Banner.

I look forward to working with you all again, and shall start working on the planning of bringing us back to what we were.


~Drake Arson
Ollie Rundle
#124 - 2014-11-01 03:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ollie Rundle
To be transparent, Drake, you were voted out of your position as SEC lead by a two-thirds majority vote (10-5 as I recall). This was due not only to concerns regarding your position as a militant Nation sympathist but also due to aggressive actions taken against other members of the project and, later, projects under the umbrella of Arek'Jaalan itself.

To paint it any other way is to recall history through a heavily rose-tinted filter.

I would suggest that if we are to avoid some of the inter-factional strife that certainly did occur previously we pursue either:

1. A hard policy of total exclusion for you and yours (and anyone else who threatens the project directly or indirectly)

or

2. Request that you - and indeed all members - agree to abide by a NPSI ROE (or similar) while in fleets and also agree to take no aggressive action either individually or as part of a group (gang/corp/alliance) against projects within Arek'Jaalan.

While I make no secret of personally favouring the first I do recognize the fact that to enforce it would be both difficult to achieve and perhaps ultimately contrary to the stated goals of the project itself.

In any case I would not be supporting your return to any SEC related role.
Ollie Rundle
#125 - 2014-11-01 05:02:58 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Yes, well, apparently, "It has been decided", that nobody in A'J should give Dr. Tukoss the objects he requested, until "things are proven".


While I understand and respect your decision to refrain from further comment and debate in this thread, I do think this statement requires some clarification for those who might easily misinterpret it.

To the best of my knowledge, no-one with any authority or access to do so has 'decided' not to supply the requested materials 'until things are proven', as you've suggested. Questioning of whether this is the real Tukoss, some imposter or a returned Tukoss with a different agenda has been correctly identified as irrelevant to such a decision being made.

Rather, the decision remains contingent on a much more objective need: the receipt of a simple research proposal from Tukoss briefly summarising why such items are required.

This is in keeping with the process previously established by Arek'Jaalan some three years ago, in direct collaboration with Tukoss himself.

As stated in the thread dealing with this issue, it is not unreasonable to expect Tukoss to play by the guidelines he helped to establish.

I wish you well, despite the minor difference of opinion we have regarding your structure for Arek'Jalaan moving forward.
Anslo
Scope Works
#126 - 2014-11-01 12:23:08 UTC
Val didn't mean anything in any official capacity. She's simply referring to the same old status quo cliques calling the shots with people agreeing with them simply because if they're fame.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Ollie Rundle
#127 - 2014-11-01 12:54:06 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Val didn't mean anything in any official capacity. She's simply referring to the same old status quo cliques calling the shots with people agreeing with them simply because if they're fame.

If that's correct I can certainly understand any frustrations this might have caused.

My primary reason for calling for the removal of the Council tier from her proposal was because one of the few things I can see it achieving is to re-establish and reinforce those cliques and extraneous hierarchies you're alluding to. I believe that these could then prove a hindrance to the work of Arek'Jalaan collaborators rather than a benefit.

Aside from the Council tier I quite like the simple elegance of the rest of her proposed structure.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#128 - 2014-11-01 13:02:38 UTC
Cliques are bad unless it's our clique running the show? Sounds like every organization I've ever known. Ever.
Anslo
Scope Works
#129 - 2014-11-01 13:47:15 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Cliques are bad unless it's our clique running the show? Sounds like every organization I've ever known. Ever.

Basically. Thus why my fleets have withdrawn. Not gonna defend this **** show.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
#130 - 2014-11-01 22:52:32 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Who decided this, and what proof is required, I don't know, because this didn't seem to be mentioned on the IGS, or on the mailing list, so, it is a mystery to me as to who decided what, on what basis, and on whose authority.

I would think some kind of council to discuss those kind of important discussions, or at the very least, inform others of the reasons why someone is taking action unilaterally, would be helpful.

Obviously, it seems you disagree.

I don't think I have anything more to add at this point, so this will probably be my last comment in this thread. Good day to you.


Your emotions are getting the best of you today, Dr. Valate. So far, in this symposium, the idea of ditching the Council proposal does not seem very popular. I, too, think such an organ is vital to discuss such important matters. Joe TheMachine will tell us what it boils down to in the end, but I believe this idea will not go down without a vote.

Regarding Dr. Tukoss' materials not being made available yet, this is the safest course of action for now, as we precisely don't have all the information in hands, and no Council to examine this matter. Status quo, for a few more days or weeks, after three years of absence, will probably not change anything.

Mu'adib Atreides wrote:
I like Gehen Sealbreaker's proposal with one additional proposal, to have an Inspector General's office which is independent of the leadership, scientific, and administrative body in addition to the ethics committee. I think the ethics committee needs to focus on ensuring all is well internally and on a day to day basis, while the inspector general's office certifies major decisions, runs elections, and organizes forum discussions and symposiums just like this one.

Basically someone to expand on Joe Themachine's current temporary assignment and on a permanent basis. The inspector general's mandate would be to:

-Schedule, organize, and certify officer elections (if any)
-Run forums and discussions in a fair and equitable manner (and without interfering in the content of those forums)
-Be a neutral party, when called upon, to resolve disputes.
-audit material, financial, and resource usage to ensure donations are used for the purpose to which they are assigned.
-Investigate issues, misappropriations, misuse, and corruption.

And other responsibilities as mandated.

Instead of calling it this person an Inspector General I believe we should call him "Superior Agent of the Council"


This is interesting, and I too think this would indeed add some much needed organization here.
However, as I stated before, I fear we might be a bit cluttered by Divisions actually, and merging some of them would be beneficial to a smoother day-to-day management. Why not expanding the Ethics Commitee's roles to this? Or, there was an old Administration Division.

Drake Arson wrote:
Greetings 'Capsuleers'

It has been a very long time since we have had the chance to reach out to anyone. With that being said, It is good to be back and we are officially announcing a return to activities.

When AJ was first created, I was put in as the Lead for AJ:SEC. While I admit it had a bit of a rocky start, we where able to create a stable environment for multiple different factions, including sworn enemies, were able to work together in harmony.

I am pleased to announce that I wish to resume said role as Lead of AJ:SEC and look forward to working with the others in what, we believe, a great step forward in continued cooperation. Something AJ has always strived for, many people from all works of life under one (If temporary) Banner.

I look forward to working with you all again, and shall start working on the planning of bringing us back to what we were.

~Drake Arson


I am, to a certain extent, admiring the sheer audacity of this proposal, Citizen Arson.
Do you really think there would be no-one in Arek'Jalaan knowing how deep your integration to Nation became?
Arek'Jalaan requires curiosity, empathy, and a passion for knowledge. Things that are only possible to a free mind. You might have kept more of your former personality than most of your True Slaves, but you are not your own master.
Arek'Jalaan has no use for puppets, and if your puppeteer himself wants to join the think tank - a grotesque idea - I think most of us would ask for the ongoing invasions and abductions of innocents to cease before we even listen, if you see what I mean.

To end on a lighter note, since this was pretty dramatic:

Anslo wrote:
Huola Coalition fully withdraws any and all offers of assistance, fleet support and/or otherwise, to this project as it stands.


Who?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#131 - 2014-11-02 05:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:

Anslo wrote:
Huola Coalition fully withdraws any and all offers of assistance, fleet support and/or otherwise, to this project as it stands.


Who?


I'd have thought it's self-explanatory. It's a coalition of organisations based out of the Huola system. Try looking up his Corporation first. Then look up his combat record.

That's right, the man's gotten more action this week, personally, than your corporation has since it's inception.

I've been watching this thread with some interest, but sadly you've come off as nothing more than some odd marriage of a university faculty room and a secret society. Elaborate titles. A hierarchy as vertical as the Kaalakiota peaks. Cliquey membership games. I tell you what you guys need - a special costume and a secret handshake!

Also, just checking, but Nation bad and Blooders good, right?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#132 - 2014-11-02 08:27:09 UTC
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:

My idea for a renewal of Arek'Jalaan would be this:


  • We keep the existing divisions (almost all of them, more on that later).
  • Each division is either a Research Division (blue in the next diagram), or an Administrative Division (red in the next diagram).
  • Each division will have a Division Leader (and a Substitute, to act in his or her place when unavailable for critical periods of time.)
  • Decisions regarding Arek'Jalaan as a whole will be taken by a Council of the Division Leaders, with a majority of 2/3.
  • The Arek'Jalaan Council will have a Chairman, designed by its members, who will be in charge of leading the Council's discussions, and in general, act as an embodiment of Arek'Jalaan for any action requiring a specific person.
  • Every Division Leader will become Chairman, this position being passed every month to the next Division Leader.
  • Mandates of the Division Leaders (and Substitutes) should be renewed at the Division's members discretion. Terms should be kept long enough to be meaningful. (A year ?)
  • Division Leaders are encouraged to consult their Division Members when possible and needed, but may take decisions on behalf of their Division without concentration, without any penalty other than a lower chance of reelection for a later term.
  • Division Leaders will be in charge of establishing or maintaining any communication medium for their Division internal discussions, as before.

Mr. Sealbreaker,

I am an outsider, and don't understand most of specifics of the project. However, if your project is open and you take ideas from outsiders as well, I have a significant point of concern, as there were said nothing about origin of division leaders. I believe, if you can set an obligatory practice of screening all and everyone of the project members to check if they were of gallentean origin or had gallentean DNA in their genes, to be stripped from all their positions at once.

I hope that my idea will let you maintain your organization clean and prosperous.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Shae Mataar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2014-11-02 09:15:14 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:

My idea for a renewal of Arek'Jalaan would be this:


  • We keep the existing divisions (almost all of them, more on that later).
  • Each division is either a Research Division (blue in the next diagram), or an Administrative Division (red in the next diagram).
  • Each division will have a Division Leader (and a Substitute, to act in his or her place when unavailable for critical periods of time.)
  • Decisions regarding Arek'Jalaan as a whole will be taken by a Council of the Division Leaders, with a majority of 2/3.
  • The Arek'Jalaan Council will have a Chairman, designed by its members, who will be in charge of leading the Council's discussions, and in general, act as an embodiment of Arek'Jalaan for any action requiring a specific person.
  • Every Division Leader will become Chairman, this position being passed every month to the next Division Leader.
  • Mandates of the Division Leaders (and Substitutes) should be renewed at the Division's members discretion. Terms should be kept long enough to be meaningful. (A year ?)
  • Division Leaders are encouraged to consult their Division Members when possible and needed, but may take decisions on behalf of their Division without concentration, without any penalty other than a lower chance of reelection for a later term.
  • Division Leaders will be in charge of establishing or maintaining any communication medium for their Division internal discussions, as before.

Mr. Sealbreaker,

I am an outsider, and don't understand most of specifics of the project. However, if your project is open and you take ideas from outsiders as well, I have a significant point of concern, as there were said nothing about origin of division leaders. I believe, if you can set an obligatory practice of screening all and everyone of the project members to check if they were of gallentean origin or had gallentean DNA in their genes, to be stripped from all their positions at once.

I hope that my idea will let you maintain your organization clean and prosperous.


If the bigotry in the above post were not so blatant and the idea not so laughable, i would be worried.

go away, kim. the mental bar here in a'j is much too high and the attitude far too -heh- "liberal," for your tastes.

i bring that which you fear the most

freedom

no matter what the price

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#134 - 2014-11-02 09:32:16 UTC
Shae Mataar wrote:

If the bigotry in the above post were not so blatant and the idea not so laughable, i would be worried.

go away, kim. the mental bar here in a'j is much too high and the attitude far too -heh- "liberal," for your tastes.

Thanks, but I don't need remarks about "mental bars" from a tribal for whom even laying on ground mental bar would be too high.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#135 - 2014-11-02 09:48:45 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Also, just checking, but Nation bad and Blooders good, right?


Can't forget Angels too. Because "neutrality."
Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
#136 - 2014-11-02 10:11:20 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:

Anslo wrote:
Huola Coalition fully withdraws any and all offers of assistance, fleet support and/or otherwise, to this project as it stands.


Who?


I'd have thought it's self-explanatory. It's a coalition of organisations based out of the Huola system. Try looking up his Corporation first. Then look up his combat record.

That's right, the man's gotten more action this week, personally, than your corporation has since it's inception.


I know that, Mr. Tuulinen.
My remark, although a bit hash, was more intended to knock Anslo off his high horse than a real question.

But I concede it was cold. People died in the numberous engagements of Huola Coalition you mention, and I did not mean to insult their memories by implying the battles they fought were meaningless. My apologies.

However, even if not meaningless, they are irrelevant. Arek'Jalaan is indeed a scientific body, what you seem to have overlooked. We have no claims on specific territory - apart our station in Eram - not even an official CONCORD registration. My corporation is a small, simple one, dedicated to the studies of some spatial phenomena. I take pride in that combat record you seem to view as insulting. Science doesn't exactly amount to "blowing up ****."

As a more combat-oriented pilot, if you wish to offer Arek'Jalaan assistance when the need arise, you will be most welcome, and praised, even, if you actions lead to protecting a great scientific advancement that would otherwise have been compromised. But still, our purpose is to research, invent, and develop the tools you use everyday, not use them.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Also, just checking, but Nation bad and Blooders good, right?


This is a more delicate topic.

The opposition with Sansha's Nation is pretty straightforward, since the official threat issued by Sansha Kuvakei, though the channel of Slave Endoma01, during the attack on Madirmilire on the 30th of July YC113. Also, Arek'Jalaan mission statement is highly incompatible with Nation's actions.
But in the end, Arek'Jalaan is "at war" with Nation, not because they are not welcomed, but simply because that was was declared on Nation's side, and it's a war they wage against all the rest of New Eden. I doubt any of us don't personally know a crew or station personnel member who had a relative abducted by now.

Other "pirate" factions have helped or still help Arek'Jalaan, however, and the principle of presumptive meritocracy pushed forward by our founder, Hilen Tukoss, makes them welcome to. (See especially the line "A known pirate joining the collective being afforded the same opportunities, privileges and access rights as any other member.")

Most of the experiments undertaken by the Blood Raiders are unnerving, and, since you're so adamant on the value of combat records, you have probably noticed that I have to shoot down some of their ships daily. They do not like me at all, and, I must say, that sentiment is very well mirrored. However, I am not Arek'Jalaan. And unless the Council - or whatever structure replaces it - votes a recommendation of the Ethics Commitee barring all known Blood Raiders affiliates to participate, I will have to put my feelings aside.
Surprisingly, that can sometimes lead to interesting discussions, as Dr. Valate here made me realize you can be of Sani Sabik faith and not insane.

Diana Kim wrote:

Mr. Sealbreaker,

I am an outsider, and don't understand most of specifics of the project. However, if your project is open and you take ideas from outsiders as well, I have a significant point of concern, as there were said nothing about origin of division leaders.

I believe, if you can set an obligatory practice of screening all and everyone of the project members to check if they were of gallentean origin or had gallentean DNA in their genes, to be stripped from all their positions at once.


By all means, share ideas. This symposium was meant for this, I believe.

However, this particular screening is not reasonable, I fear. See "presumptive meritocracy", above. Again, I am only a cog in the machine, but I would be surprised if such motion was ever to be adopted by Arek'Jalaan.

I would like to reassure all readers that "new blood" is welcomed in Arek'Jalaan, as far as I'm concerned. What may seem a rigid extension of cliques and power games is merely "business as usual" in New Eden corporate world.

Since the requirement for entry as a simple member in Arek'Jalaan is "Anyone with an idea and not a Sansha Loyalist" (see above), which is quite low, it's quite normal that leading positions (sort of "officers") are subject to a much more rigid screening. And veterans of the project will be preferred, since we know them to be reliable, and not double-agents. With all the assets and firepower available to Arek'Jalaan governing body, it's a normal precaution to take. Think of this as appointing new Directors to your own corporation. You're going to trust your old friends more than outsiders.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#137 - 2014-11-02 12:27:40 UTC
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:

Since the requirement for entry as a simple member in Arek'Jalaan is "Anyone with an idea and not a Sansha Loyalist" (see above),

Thank you for the clarification, Mr. Sealbreaker!

And allow me to use then this right.
I do not object against "Sansha Loyalist" part, as, I hope, it is wide known, that sanshas are just a mindless flesh drones, connected to the common network, and that makes whatever Sansha follower says been just retranslated words of Sansha Kuvakei.
From my point of view, would you agree with it or no, for me it would sound the same as "Anyone with an idea and not a Rogue Drone"

I am sorry for this huge remark, my idea is, that this requirement should be extended to "Anyone with an idea an not a Federation and Sansha Loyalist". The reason for this, is that the Federation is way more dangerous and disruptive to humanity and human lives than the Nation will ever be.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Anslo
Scope Works
#138 - 2014-11-02 13:20:57 UTC
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:

Anslo wrote:
Huola Coalition fully withdraws any and all offers of assistance, fleet support and/or otherwise, to this project as it stands.


Who?


I'd have thought it's self-explanatory. It's a coalition of organisations based out of the Huola system. Try looking up his Corporation first. Then look up his combat record.

That's right, the man's gotten more action this week, personally, than your corporation has since it's inception.


I know that, Mr. Tuulinen.
My remark, although a bit hash, was more intended to knock Anslo off his high horse than a real question.

But I concede it was cold. People died in the numberous engagements of Huola Coalition you mention, and I did not mean to insult their memories by implying the battles they fought were meaningless. My apologies.

However, even if not meaningless, they are irrelevant. Arek'Jalaan is indeed a scientific body, what you seem to have overlooked. We have no claims on specific territory - apart our station in Eram - not even an official CONCORD registration. My corporation is a small, simple one, dedicated to the studies of some spatial phenomena. I take pride in that combat record you seem to view as insulting. Science doesn't exactly amount to "blowing up ****."

As a more combat-oriented pilot, if you wish to offer Arek'Jalaan assistance when the need arise, you will be most welcome, and praised, even, if you actions lead to protecting a great scientific advancement that would otherwise have been compromised. But still, our purpose is to research, invent, and develop the tools you use everyday, not use them.

You're going to regret this.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#139 - 2014-11-02 13:31:37 UTC
Anslo wrote:

You're going to regret this.

Funny Anslo is funny.
Go back to your Huola and play your toy soldiers there.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#140 - 2014-11-02 19:03:58 UTC
Madam Kim, your baseless bigotry and racism is neither welcome nor tolerated in any sort of educated circle.

Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave