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The end of Corpmate Awoxxing?

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Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#701 - 2014-10-31 22:23:20 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Its not being removed. You will just have to deal with concord now.


OI! Stop ignoring my posts and learn CONCORD mechanics.

You cannot "deal" with CONCORD. CONCORD are literally omnipotent space gods who immediately disable your warp drive when you illegally aggress someone and a maximum of 25 seconds later apply infinite strength ECM, disable drone control, completely neut you out and incidentally (this is the least important aspect) kill you with no chance of escape.

The difference is not that the ganker loses a ship, it's that he loses his ship for NOTHING.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#702 - 2014-10-31 22:25:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
So you're saying:

Suicide Gank - Ship Loss = Awox



Interesting......interesting.....But what if we assume that the target is a new player-corp in hisec, can we replace some equivalent expressions?

Suicide Gank - Risk = Awox


Fascinating stuff!
Currently it's possible for the awoxer to lose his ship at the hands of the people being awoxed. There is no guaranteed outcome, which renders your "equations" invalid because they assume an absolute..

The proposed changes give a guaranteed outcome, the aggressor is going to lose their ship, not at the hands of the corp being awoxed, but at the hands of an infallible, omnipotent NPC that they can't escape from.

When Concord are involved in PvP it becomes a suicide gank, the outcome is guaranteed ship loss.



Concord being involved doesn't determine if it is awox vs suicide gank.

The term awox only refers to when both the awoxer and mark are in the same corp.

And changing it so concord will respond doesn't change the fact that you and the mark are in the same corp.


37 pages and I thought the awoxxers knew what the term meant.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#703 - 2014-10-31 22:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
La Nariz wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
[quote=Lucas Kell]

Solving a psychological issue via game mechanics.

And why not? If it helps new players find a home in eve, I don't see a problem.


Because its a symptomatic treatment instead of treating the cause of the problem.

In the real world symptomatic treatment saves lives. A patient with an excessively high temperature is placed into an ice bath to prevent permanent brain damage and death. A patient suffering from severe dissentry or ebola is treated with large volumes of fluids and electrolytes to prevent death by dehydration.

Treating the symptoms is often no less necessary than treating the underlying cause. The same is true here.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#704 - 2014-10-31 22:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
PotatoOverdose wrote:
A fair point
Thanks Big smile

Quote:
as the equations would only hold true if some unscrupulous individuals would only target relatively new players in newbie friendly corps, ignorant of game mechanics. And we know no one would ever do that....
lol I'm not denying that awoxers target newbie friendly corps, but they don't exclusively target them either. They target pretty much anybody that will recruit them, which includes corps that should know better as well as newbie friendly ones.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#705 - 2014-10-31 22:27:14 UTC
"psychological issues"

To keep people interested it is important to minimize unnecessary frustrating moments and give the impression of fairness. I have problems how this awoxing will teach something to new players. Moreso when the older player sits there and plays with the gamemechnics NewBros don't know.

Content vs Player rention value, i would think one could let go of awoxing and not miss much.

I start to think that some cerrtain group starts to realize that their end might be on the horizon.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#706 - 2014-10-31 22:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
A fair point
Thanks Big smile

Quote:
as the equations would only hold true if some unscrupulous individuals would only target relatively new players in newbie friendly corps, ignorant of game mechanics. And we know no one would ever do that....
lol I'm not denying that awoxers target newbie friendly corps, but they don't exclusively target them. They target pretty much anybody that will recruit them, which includes corps that should know better as well as newbie friendly ones.

And those players that don't exclusively target ignorant new player corps in hisec can move on to awoxing low sec corps, awoxing npc 0.0 corps, awoxing sov corps, and awoxing wormhole corps. If they target anyone that will recruit them, then they have a cluster's worth of awoxing opportunity ahead of them.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#707 - 2014-10-31 22:30:37 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
In the real world symptomatic treatment saves lives. A patient with an excessively high temperature is placed into an ice bath to prevent permanent brain damage and death. A patient suffering from severe dissentry or ebola is treated with large volumes of fluids and electrolytes to prevent death by dehydration.

Treating the symptoms is often no less necessary than treating the underlying cause. The same is true here.


Apples to oranges, is EVE the real world? No it isn't treating this symptom with a hamfisted attempt is only going to make the overall cause and problem worse. Not only that it's a waste of resources when they could be working on the cause instead of trying random crap.

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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#708 - 2014-10-31 22:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Syn Shi
Masao Kurata wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
Its not being removed. You will just have to deal with concord now.


OI! Stop ignoring my posts and learn CONCORD mechanics.

You cannot "deal" with CONCORD. CONCORD are literally omnipotent space gods who immediately disable your warp drive when you illegally aggress someone and a maximum of 25 seconds later apply infinite strength ECM, disable drone control, completely neut you out and incidentally (this is the least important aspect) kill you with no chance of escape.

The difference is not that the ganker loses a ship, it's that he loses his ship for NOTHING.



Get your real corp mates together...tell them you are going to join a noobie corp and convince a newer player to take his best stuff out to low-sec for some level 5 mission fun.

When he agrees (assuming you are actually good at infiltrating and getting them all friendly), let your real corp mates know where to meet you to drop the hammer.

This is the real good part, have your corp mates also attack you....but not kill you. They let you go but you play it up as you somehow got away.

If you are any good at it you could do this a few times before someone caught on.

Not only have you created more content for more people (your real corp), if you are any good at it you may be able to pull this off a few times before getting the boot.

Or you can choose to stop and play the victim.

I don't even participate in this activity and it looks like I put more effort and creativity into awoxxing than the awoxxers in this thread.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#709 - 2014-10-31 22:33:23 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
"psychological issues"

To keep people interested it is important to minimize unnecessary frustrating moments and give the impression of fairness. I have problems how this awoxing will teach something to new players. Moreso when the older player sits there and plays with the gamemechnics NewBros don't know.

Content vs Player rention value, i would think one could let go of awoxing and not miss much.

I start to think that some cerrtain group starts to realize that their end might be on the horizon.


You are opening a can of worms if you want to talk fairness. Highsec has been made progressively safer yet there has not been a reward nerf to it. Players remain for the content so every time you take content away you decrease player retention.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#710 - 2014-10-31 22:33:37 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I don't need to join a fleet or make anything up. Their kills are plain to see, and the vast majority are untanked solo players many of whom react with tears when ganked. Bots don't react with tears, bots don't fly insufficiently tanked mining barges solo. Thus CODE claiming to be against bot aspirant behaviour is an outright lie or a display of incredible incompetence.


Another thing. Those guys are so into "it" (whatever "it" is) that they do not understand, that they themself give out those facts.
Read their blog and you can see what they are really doing. It seems the codies understand only the "hurrah" part.


Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#711 - 2014-10-31 22:34:32 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
La Nariz wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
In the real world symptomatic treatment saves lives. A patient with an excessively high temperature is placed into an ice bath to prevent permanent brain damage and death. A patient suffering from severe dissentry or ebola is treated with large volumes of fluids and electrolytes to prevent death by dehydration.

Treating the symptoms is often no less necessary than treating the underlying cause. The same is true here.


Apples to oranges, is EVE the real world? No it isn't treating this symptom with a hamfisted attempt is only going to make the overall cause and problem worse. Not only that it's a waste of resources when they could be working on the cause instead of trying random crap.

You brought up the "symptomatic treatment" analogy, a medical term. You brought up the real world analogy, not me. Sorry I had to crush your terrible analogy like a bug.

La Nariz wrote:

No it isn't treating this symptom with a hamfisted attempt is only going to make the overall cause and problem worse. Not only that it's a waste of resources when they could be working on the cause instead of trying random crap.
[Citation Needed]
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#712 - 2014-10-31 22:34:42 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
CSM dude when is highsec reward going to be nerfed?


It isn't, too many players in other parts of the game partially finance themselves with said income. If you gutted that the ripples would go much further than you might expect.

To the other person who asked about corp robbery? No I do not see that being on the chopping bl;ock in the (what was the time frame?) next six months.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#713 - 2014-10-31 22:34:53 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Completely unrelated bullshit


Well I guess that's one way to avoid learning any mechanics.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#714 - 2014-10-31 22:35:40 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
And those players that don't exclusively target ignorant new player corps in hisec can move on to awoxing low sec corps, awoxing npc 0.0 corps, awoxing sov corps, and awoxing wormhole corps. If they target anyone that will recruit them, then they have a cluster's worth of awoxing opportunity ahead of them.


It was never about preying on new players like every pro-highsec person wants to assert. It was about preying on people with more isk than brains. Lowsec corporations were not targets as much because they were more aware of the potential for violence than the deliberately ignorant highsec corporations.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#715 - 2014-10-31 22:37:15 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
CSM dude when is highsec reward going to be nerfed?


It isn't, too many players in other parts of the game partially finance themselves with said income. If you gutted that the ripples would go much further than you might expect.

To the other person who asked about corp robbery? No I do not see that being on the chopping bl;ock in the (what was the time frame?) next six months.

m


Don't fix it because to fix it we'd have to fix the game. What the christ.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#716 - 2014-10-31 22:38:30 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

You are opening a can of worms if you want to talk fairness. Highsec ...


Sorry that was unclear.
I talk about meta.
i am talking about the felt "fairness" when doing something, like playing a game for example. A good game will be challenging but avoid to get to frustrating. Felt Effort wants to be rewarded. IMO this is still doable without "destroying EvE" or "create a theme park".

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#717 - 2014-10-31 22:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
La Nariz wrote:

It was never about preying on new players like every pro-highsec person wants to assert. It was about preying on people with more isk than brains. Lowsec corporations were not targets as much because they were more aware of the potential for violence than the deliberately ignorant highsec corporations.

You are ignorant of history. Awoxing began in nullsec. Nullsec and lowsec corporations were the first and primary targets of awoxing. It is fitting that it returns to a primarily nullsec/lowsec role.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#718 - 2014-10-31 22:40:07 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:

To the other person who asked about corp robbery? No I do not see that being on the chopping bl;ock in the (what was the time frame?) next six months.


LOL

Good joke!
I think you made some people a little anxious!

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#719 - 2014-10-31 22:40:33 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

You are opening a can of worms if you want to talk fairness. Highsec ...


Sorry that was unclear.
I talk about meta.
i am talking about the felt "fairness" when doing something, like playing a game for example. A good game will be challenging but avoid to get to frustrating. Felt Effort wants to be rewarded. IMO this is still doable without "destroying EvE" or "create a theme park".


I agree with you but, there are better ways than this change. Like for example changing PVE from horrible grindy mess to engaging and fun.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#720 - 2014-10-31 22:40:43 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
CSM dude when is highsec reward going to be nerfed?


It isn't, too many players in other parts of the game partially finance themselves with said income. If you gutted that the ripples would go much further than you might expect.

To the other person who asked about corp robbery? No I do not see that being on the chopping bl;ock in the (what was the time frame?) next six months.

m


This is exactly why the income needs to be gutted.

Oh wait, us goons are the only idiots who make money where everyone else takes a dump.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"