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The end of Corpmate Awoxxing?

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#681 - 2014-10-31 22:03:02 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
If Code is supporting botters either accidentally or deliberately, we could argue you are too. You're part of a scrub empire that funds its SRP from renters. Don't even try to pretend some of those renter corps aren't overflowing with bots, or that anyone is unaware of it. That dirty bot ISK flows through pretty much every nullsec alliance wallet to every blobmoney in null with an SRP policy, making everyone involved participants. You're a filthy botlord Lucas, and everyone knows it.
You can argue what you want, I'm not the one sitting around claiming to be trying to rid highsec of bot aspirant behaviour while attacking all miners that display behaviour that is not bot aspirant. One day when I start making grandiose claims of performing the exact opposite of my actions, then you can criticise me in the same way and I might take it on board.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#682 - 2014-10-31 22:06:33 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
We should not remove game mechanics that drive conflict.

There is no "we".
You have no influence on this decision.

CCP wants to drive people into lo/null, so more changes will come, to lure people there.
In short: they make people like codies obsolete, who claim to have a similar target.

So why that noise?
Maybe its about the awox, maybe someone begins to see that cheap griefing gets reduced.

The rumor about player loss about this changes are quite ...
lets say funny. Elite and SC show there is highdemand for SpaceSim and EvE can and might profit from that fact to.
That brings changes for all players and some might not like them.
Still EvE will not turn into WoW, even when highsec gets safer.
What might miners get into other areas?
Less ore to mine. No reason why CCP will do nothing about belt distributions and asteroid amount.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#683 - 2014-10-31 22:06:36 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
From some really skimmy skimming I'm gathering that:

TL;DR awoxers mad that their "content creation tools" (lol) are being removed. Is that what this thread is about? Did I miss anything?

No. You missed absolutely nothing.

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Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#684 - 2014-10-31 22:06:57 UTC
I don't know why y'all so mad about high sec rewards. I make ISK in high sec and then go welp shiny stuff in PVP in low and null.

Bacon makes us stronger
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#685 - 2014-10-31 22:08:02 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
Yes, you missed the fact that its not being removed. They can still carry on but if the change was made they would lose their ship.
As you've been repeatedly told, that turns it into a suicide gank, so for all intents and purposes awoxing is being removed.

Offtopic ~ Would you care to purchase a bridge to live under? I'll even throw in a couple of goats to make sure you feel at home.



Awox...pretending to join a corp to shoot someone as used in the OP..and under the current rules with no consequence.

If you still join that corp and pretend to be nice how does having a consequence change this fact?

You still joined the corp to play nice just to shoot them....that doesn't change.


The only time it becomes suicide ganking is when they aren't part of your corp.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#686 - 2014-10-31 22:08:46 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
mike and/or any csm or dev monitoring this thread,

given that we will now be able to cue people to kick,
the longest period one would need to put up with a belligerent undesirable in corp is about 23ish hours (assuming there is a director/ceo online)

is this necessary?
you wouldn't have people wearing nubie corps as a fashionable hat for weeks on end anymore so why the extra step?

ill further the question actually, will an individual still be allowed to financially gut a corp and run off into the sunset in say six months or is this strictly an aggression/crimewatch thing?
Because it's not about the actual kill itself, it's about the behaviour the ability to aggress with no concord response supports. All the time corp aggression is possible, people that run half decent corps will more often than not put in minimum playtime/SP barriers to entry to stop throwaway awox alts. This also stop real new players engaging with other players in corps. I'd argue that this change in particular is more important than the cop kick queue, though honestly, not being able to kick a corp member because they happen to be in a timezone where they have the ability to log on right as downtime ends is pretty silly in itself.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#687 - 2014-10-31 22:09:51 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Because if someone criticizes or dsagrees with you, they have to be on par with veers or dinsdale. Roll
There is criticism and there is delusional rambling about made up facts and fantasies. It's fun when it starts, usually because the level of stupid is so surprisingly high. But it gets old very fast.

Funny, any time someone criticizes code, you (code and your supporters) almost always accuse them of delusional rambling. That must be convenient, I suppose. Could you provide an example where that isn't the case, please?
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#688 - 2014-10-31 22:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Lucas Kell wrote:
I'm not the one sitting around claiming to be trying to rid highsec of bot aspirant behaviour while attacking all miners that display behaviour that is not bot aspirant.


I do not understand how those people can ignore the "reality". I asked myself to, is this deliberate to drive out mining competition? Or do they really believe that nonsense? It is hard to believe for me, that those people might really be that foolish.

PotatoOverdose wrote:

Funny, any time someone criticizes code, you (code and your supporters) almost always accuse them of delusional rambling. That must be convenient, I suppose.


Yes, very funny. Ignoring some facts like following someone and believing what he says without doubts. Not very EvE like.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#689 - 2014-10-31 22:11:54 UTC
I just saw this in the Help channel from a noob:

"[The noob] > wow... talk about a friendly game. 5 applications all rejected. Well **** you too corp finder"

I'm not thrilled about highsec becoming safer but I do want noob recruitment to be easier.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#690 - 2014-10-31 22:12:14 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
mike and/or any csm or dev monitoring this thread,

given that we will now be able to cue people to kick,
the longest period one would need to put up with a belligerent undesirable in corp is about 23ish hours (assuming there is a director/ceo online)

is this necessary?
you wouldn't have people wearing nubie corps as a fashionable hat for weeks on end anymore so why the extra step?

ill further the question actually, will an individual still be allowed to financially gut a corp and run off into the sunset in say six months or is this strictly an aggression/crimewatch thing?
Because it's not about the actual kill itself, it's about the behaviour the ability to aggress with no concord response supports. All the time corp aggression is possible, people that run half decent corps will more often than not put in minimum playtime/SP barriers to entry to stop throwaway awox alts. This also stop real new players engaging with other players in corps. I'd argue that this change in particular is more important than the cop kick queue, though honestly, not being able to kick a corp member because they happen to be in a timezone where they have the ability to log on right as downtime ends is pretty silly in itself.


Solving a psychological issue via game mechanics.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#691 - 2014-10-31 22:14:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
PotatoOverdose wrote:
So you're saying:

Suicide Gank - Ship Loss = Awox



Interesting......interesting.....But what if we assume that the target is a new player-corp in hisec, can we replace some equivalent expressions?

Suicide Gank - Risk = Awox


Fascinating stuff!
Currently it's possible for the awoxer to lose his ship at the hands of the people being awoxed; granted it doesn't often happen but it is possible. There is no guaranteed outcome, which renders your "equations" invalid because they assume an absolute.

The proposed changes give a guaranteed outcome, the aggressor is going to lose their ship, not at the hands of the corp being awoxed, but at the hands of an infallible, omnipotent NPC that they can't escape from. If someone does manage to find a way to escape said NPC they get banned as to do so is considered an exploit.

When Concord are involved in PvP it becomes a suicide gank, the outcome is guaranteed ship loss.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#692 - 2014-10-31 22:15:08 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
mike and/or any csm or dev monitoring this thread,

given that we will now be able to cue people to kick,
the longest period one would need to put up with a belligerent undesirable in corp is about 23ish hours (assuming there is a director/ceo online)

is this necessary?
you wouldn't have people wearing nubie corps as a fashionable hat for weeks on end anymore so why the extra step?

ill further the question actually, will an individual still be allowed to financially gut a corp and run off into the sunset in say six months or is this strictly an aggression/crimewatch thing?
Because it's not about the actual kill itself, it's about the behaviour the ability to aggress with no concord response supports. All the time corp aggression is possible, people that run half decent corps will more often than not put in minimum playtime/SP barriers to entry to stop throwaway awox alts. This also stop real new players engaging with other players in corps. I'd argue that this change in particular is more important than the cop kick queue, though honestly, not being able to kick a corp member because they happen to be in a timezone where they have the ability to log on right as downtime ends is pretty silly in itself.


Solving a psychological issue via game mechanics.

And why not? If it helps new players find a home in eve, I don't see a problem.
Marsha Mallow
#693 - 2014-10-31 22:15:21 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
If Code is supporting botters either accidentally or deliberately, we could argue you are too. You're part of a scrub empire that funds its SRP from renters. Don't even try to pretend some of those renter corps aren't overflowing with bots, or that anyone is unaware of it. That dirty bot ISK flows through pretty much every nullsec alliance wallet to every blobmoney in null with an SRP policy, making everyone involved participants. You're a filthy botlord Lucas, and everyone knows it.
You can argue what you want, I'm not the one sitting around claiming to be trying to rid highsec of bot aspirant behaviour while attacking all miners that display behaviour that is not bot aspirant. One day when I start making grandiose claims of performing the exact opposite of my actions, then you can criticise me in the same way and I might take it on board.

You could just join a CODE fleet rather than flailing about making up conspiracy theories. When you see some of the stuff the 'victims' come out with you can't help but enjoy the nerd-RP. But I suppose that requires a sense of humour.

Since you so graciously concede that you are indeed a filthy botlord, I accept your surrender. See how much easier that was than 20 pages of back and forth?

Btw, you snipped the most important part of my post Straight
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Shut the **** up Lucas.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#694 - 2014-10-31 22:17:18 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
From some really skimmy skimming I'm gathering that:

TL;DR awoxers mad that their "content creation tools" (lol) are being removed. Is that what this thread is about? Did I miss anything?


I think you got the gist of it.
IMO those pro-awoxers and friends don't have lot of Arguments.
And no good ones.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#695 - 2014-10-31 22:18:37 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
So you're saying:

Suicide Gank - Ship Loss = Awox



Interesting......interesting.....But what if we assume that the target is a new player-corp in hisec, can we replace some equivalent expressions?

Suicide Gank - Risk = Awox


Fascinating stuff!
Currently it's possible for the awoxer to lose his ship at the hands of the people being awoxed. There is no guaranteed outcome, which renders your "equations" invalid.

A fair point, as the equations would only hold true if some unscrupulous individuals would only target relatively new players in newbie friendly corps, ignorant of game mechanics. And we know no one would ever do that....
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#696 - 2014-10-31 22:19:05 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
mike and/or any csm or dev monitoring this thread,

given that we will now be able to cue people to kick,
the longest period one would need to put up with a belligerent undesirable in corp is about 23ish hours (assuming there is a director/ceo online)

is this necessary?
you wouldn't have people wearing nubie corps as a fashionable hat for weeks on end anymore so why the extra step?

ill further the question actually, will an individual still be allowed to financially gut a corp and run off into the sunset in say six months or is this strictly an aggression/crimewatch thing?
Because it's not about the actual kill itself, it's about the behaviour the ability to aggress with no concord response supports. All the time corp aggression is possible, people that run half decent corps will more often than not put in minimum playtime/SP barriers to entry to stop throwaway awox alts. This also stop real new players engaging with other players in corps. I'd argue that this change in particular is more important than the cop kick queue, though honestly, not being able to kick a corp member because they happen to be in a timezone where they have the ability to log on right as downtime ends is pretty silly in itself.
Solving a psychological issue via game mechanics.
I guess it could be seen that way. All the time the risk is there, people are going to mitigate it, and the easiest way to do that is blanket reject anyone under a certain amount of playtime. It's removes the risk but isn't new player friendly. Mechanically mitigating that risk so newer players can be embraced rather than rejected seems to be a very positive change.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#697 - 2014-10-31 22:19:56 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
mike and/or any csm or dev monitoring this thread,

given that we will now be able to cue people to kick,
the longest period one would need to put up with a belligerent undesirable in corp is about 23ish hours (assuming there is a director/ceo online)

is this necessary?
you wouldn't have people wearing nubie corps as a fashionable hat for weeks on end anymore so why the extra step?

ill further the question actually, will an individual still be allowed to financially gut a corp and run off into the sunset in say six months or is this strictly an aggression/crimewatch thing?
Because it's not about the actual kill itself, it's about the behaviour the ability to aggress with no concord response supports. All the time corp aggression is possible, people that run half decent corps will more often than not put in minimum playtime/SP barriers to entry to stop throwaway awox alts. This also stop real new players engaging with other players in corps. I'd argue that this change in particular is more important than the cop kick queue, though honestly, not being able to kick a corp member because they happen to be in a timezone where they have the ability to log on right as downtime ends is pretty silly in itself.


Solving a psychological issue via game mechanics.

And why not? If it helps new players find a home in eve, I don't see a problem.


Because its a symptomatic treatment instead of treating the cause of the problem.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#698 - 2014-10-31 22:20:04 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:

Btw, you snipped the most important part of my post


If that was the most important part, you apprarently hadn't anything to say.
Ugh

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#699 - 2014-10-31 22:20:35 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
From some really skimmy skimming I'm gathering that:

TL;DR awoxers mad that their "content creation tools" (lol) are being removed. Is that what this thread is about? Did I miss anything?


I think you got the gist of it.
IMO those pro-awoxers and friends don't have lot of Arguments.
And no good ones.


Wrote a piece about awoxing and corp recruitment in the Assembly hall. GD level discussions are just full of human waste products.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#700 - 2014-10-31 22:22:46 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
You could just join a CODE fleet rather than flailing about making up conspiracy theories. When you see some of the stuff the 'victims' come out with you can't help but enjoy the nerd-RP. But I suppose that requires a sense of humour.
I don't need to join a fleet or make anything up. Their kills are plain to see, and the vast majority are untanked solo players many of whom react with tears when ganked. Bots don't react with tears, bots don't fly insufficiently tanked mining barges solo. Thus CODE claiming to be against bot aspirant behaviour is an outright lie or a display of incredible incompetence.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.